TV Debate! Who do you think won tonight's debate? - 19/November/2019

Mr.Nice Guy

Thought Corbyn got the better of it. He came across as the more human candidate such as when he referenced his friend that passed away, and stressing the importance of empathy for Epstein's victims. Some good one-liners too such as the Christmas gift topic answer, and probably the line of the night in response to Johnson's warning of chaotic coalitions - "We've had nine years of chaotic coalitions."

Johnson looked uncomfortable at times and seemed to try to mask this by morphing into his 'Boris' character with the usual bravado. He did however get his main point across all night on Brexit which is that he has a clearly defined position and Corbyn does not, which I think is Corbyn's big weakness and perhaps will prove the fatal flaw.

Overall, a win for Corbyn but I'm not sure it will change any minds or make much of a difference. I think if voters were pro-Johnson before this they will remain so after it, and those who were pro-Corbyn will remain that way inclined too.

ancapailldorcha

Some below standard posts deleted.

dublinman1990

Gove is saying on the BBC News Channel there was not one person capable of being PM tonight apart from Johnson. Good grief.

Also I voted Corbyn in the debate poll in this thread. He had a nervy start at the beginning but he had improved his composure throughout the debate.

Johnson was a constant deflector throughout all of it. He was like a script with his answers.

The ITV debate was quite rushed with it's length of just an hour. There is going to be another 2 hour debate from ITV in about 10 days time.

Better Than Christ

Corbyn won by a mile. Anyone who didn't see that needs to take their Tory-tinted glasses off. More sincere, more serious, more policy-focused, less waffle. The tight time constraints and over-zealous moderation didn't suit Johnson's style at all.

Joe_ Public

Best blow of the night was corbyn getting in with recognition of the victims on the andrew question. Big respect from whole audience for that and nothing Johnson could do to counter. Corbyn won easily even if overall a damp squib. Get brexit done sounded so flat and tired by the end i think even johnsons biggest fans werent applauding it.

Danzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Thought Corbyn got the better of it. He came across as the more human candidate such as when he referenced his friend that passed away, and stressing the importance of empathy for Epstein's victims. Some good one-liners too such as the Christmas gift topic answer, and probably the line of the night in response to Johnson's warning of chaotic coalitions - "We've had nine years of chaotic coalitions."

Johnson looked uncomfortable at times and seemed to try to mask this by morphing into his 'Boris' character with the usual bravado. He did however get his main point across all night on Brexit which is that he has a clearly defined position and Corbyn does not, which I think is Corbyn's big weakness and perhaps will prove the fatal flaw.

Overall, a win for Corbyn but I'm not sure it will change any minds or make much of a difference. I think if voters were pro-Johnson before this they will remain so after it, and those who were pro-Corbyn will remain that way inclined too.

Agreed

gooch2k9

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Best blow of the night was corbyn getting in with recognition of the victims on the andrew question. Big respect from whole audience for that and nothing Johnson could do to counter. Corbyn won easily even if overall a damp squib. Get brexit done sounded so flat and tired by the end i think even johnsons biggest fans werent applauding it.

Bringing every question back to Brexit was a bad move for Johnson. There were questions specifically on that topic where he could make those points. He failed to answer the rest because he kept going back to Brexit. It gets tiresome.

BonnieSituation

Deleted User wrote: »

And Corbyn ignoring questions on his Brexit position, negotiation stance, and anti-Semitism?

He answered all of those.

Unlike Boris who literally answered nothing.

Horrible format for a debate.

Corbyn landed the cleaner punches.

Joe_ Public

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Bringing every question back to Brexit was a bad move for Johnson. There were questions specifically on that topic where he could make those points. He failed to answer the rest because he kept going back to Brexit. It gets tiresome.

Yeah. I mean i can see why its an effective enough strategy, but he just basically kicked it to death tonight. People were audibly groaning and even laughing at him and not in a good way. Can we take another 3 weeks of that?

liamtech

An Opinion Poll in a few days will demonstrate what effect this has
-if any

my feeling is Johnson is hoping that a majority missed this debate

gooch2k9

BonnieSituation wrote: »

He answered all of those.

Unlike Boris who literally answered nothing.

I think he could have explained the position on his referendum a bit better but apart from that agree with you. That was the only point Johnson succeeded in making tonight.

Corbyn could have pushed more on the NHS and the sea border. Those were his main points for me.

BonnieSituation

YouGov calling it a deadheat. I am shocked!*



*I am not shocked.

igCorcaigh

Some silly questions from the audience.

Trust.

I really don't think trust is important in politics. The electorate never trusts the politician, but they vote on policy and then hold the politicians to account on the next election.

Trust does not come into the equation.

liamtech

BonnieSituation wrote: »

YouGov calling it a deadheat. I am shocked!*



*I am not shocked.

Well considering that the polls had the Torys with a 10-14% lead - Il take that with both arms

In terms of stopping brexit, a draw is a win for our side!

and WELL DONE JEREMY!

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

Well considering that the polls had the Torys with a 10-14% lead - Il take that with both arms

In terms of stopping brexit, a draw is a win for our side!

and WELL DONE JEREMY!

It doesn't concern you that Jeremy Corbyn didn't win, then?

Only that he "didn't lose"?

Quite a bizarre reason to celebrate, I would have thought.

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't concern you that Jeremy Corbyn didn't win, then?

Only that he "didn't lose"?

Quite a bizarre reason to celebrate, I would have thought.

Denying the Torys a win - is a win - for remain - dare i say it for reasonable Non-Right/Hard-Right politics

So yes - i am celebrating Eskimo

sorry to disappoint you

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

Denying the Torys a win - is a win - for remain - dare i say it for reasonable Non-Right/Hard-Right politics

So yes - i am celebrating Eskimo

sorry to disappoint you

But that wasn't your claim during the debate.

It was "quite obvious" that Corbyn "dominated" the debate.

Now you're willing to accept a dead-heat as a success?

Really?

Joe_ Public

You gov poll saying Johnson won 51-49 according to sky. Well, thats one you gov poll we can definitely take with a silo of salt anyway.

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

But that wasn't your claim during the debate.

It was "quite obvious" that Corbyn "dominated" the debate.

Now you're willing to accept a dead-heat as a success?

Really?

I do believe that Johnson lost that - thats what i believe. I seem to remember that you are quite keen on the idea of arguing against the majority position? or am i mistaking you for someone else?

and yes - Labour may have little chance of a majority

But Eskimo, do you know what that means?

In a Hung parliament, Your Boy will Have Lost - its his to lose. Tonight he lost - and i hope on december 12th we are all here watching as he loses again -

I do not favor brexit, and anything that could prevent it is of benefit. i have been highly critical of Corbyn's fence sitting in the past

But if it hurts brexit/Boris - its good in my book

igCorcaigh

Anyway... Back to the debate.

Is anyone following the next debate now?
I've switched off, I just do not like the lib dem leader, I find her a very poor speaker.

liamtech

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Anyway... Back to the debate.

Is anyone following the next debate now?
I've switched off, I just do not like the lib dem leader, I find her a very poor speaker.

Il be watching for sure - will be interesting to see what they have to say about the debate

prediction

Farage - Boris Won
Swinson - no one won and it wasnt fair
Sturgeon - ??? maybe Corbyn??
Plaid - no idea

gooch2k9

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Anyway... Back to the debate.

Is anyone following the next debate now?
I've switched off, I just do not like the lib dem leader, I find her a very poor speaker.

Is this on ITV as well?

dublinman1990

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Is this on ITV as well?

Yes. It is the ITV Election Interviews. It will begin from 10pm tonight. The host for them is Nina Hossain.

mzungu

Overall, Corbyn got the better of Johnson. On most topics he came across more assured, most likely because he was not hell bent on working in script full of soundbites from a focus group. I would not be surprised if "Get Brexit Done" doesn't get aired as much in the following debates, it was pure overkill tonight. Whatever happened to less is more?

Johnson struggled when trying to row back on his claim of building of 40 hospitals. It rammed the message home that you really can't believe anything he comes out with.

Tonight certainly wouldn't make a Tory vote Labour or vice-versa, but it could have coaxed a few on the fencers over to Corbyn.

On a separate note, the studio tonight looked like it was lifted straight from a Kraftwerk gig!

igCorcaigh

mzungu wrote: »

On a separate note, the studio tonight looked like it was lifted straight from a Kraftwerk gig!

Wasn't it awful!
Totally unsuitable for a debating format.

I think more time for the debate would have been welcome too.

It was all very forced and stilted by the format.

dublinman1990

That move from the Tories changing their official twitter account to factcheckUK is being reported by Outside Source on BBC News. There has not been any positive replies from other major political organisations in the UK, in the form of tweets, to the Tories. These organisations are relaying the message to the Tories that putting out alternative facts during an election campaign there could ignite the longstanding debate about Fake News from some of the untrustworthy media sources out there today that align to the hard right. It was in no doubt a really bad move coming from the Tories. They are taking a big hint here that by taking part in this move tonight. They risk their own political integrity as a credible political movement in the UK because they are giving off impressions to their voters that they want to copy other minority groups that want to put the UK within a political utopia that promotes hard right politics along with promoting Brexit. By doing this move; they are attempting to put in a narrative that Brexit will not happen at all in that it is all a big fix to stay within the EU.

igCorcaigh

dublinman1990 wrote: »

That move from the Tories changing their official twitter account to FactCheckUK is being reported by Outside Source on BBC News. There has not been any positive replies, in the form of tweets, to them to say that it could ignite the longstanding debate about Fake News from some of the untrustworthy media sources out there today.

Eh?

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

prediction

Farage - Boris Won
Swinson - no one won and it wasnt fair
Sturgeon - ??? maybe Corbyn??
Plaid - no idea

Farage has released a declaration on Twitter saying Corbyn was the better debater tonight.

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

Farage has released a declaration on Twitter saying Corbyn was the better debater tonight.

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1196899252787646465


https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1196895089051742213

where did you see that?

liamtech

liamtech wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1196899252787646465


https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1196895089051742213

where did you see that?

Did you listen to the video? He claims that Corbyn is "clearly the better debater" - 5 seconds into his video.

liamtech

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you listen to the video? He claims that Corbyn is "clearly the better debater" - 5 seconds into his video.

ah touche

Find it difficult to listen to farage! lol

Now i have to go and listen to him on ITV:D:pac:

gooch2k9

ITV's last question to Swinson: "Which other current leader would you like to join you on I'm a celebrity...?". Is it all one big joke?

FrancieBrady

gooch2k9 wrote: »

ITV's last question to Swinson: "Which other current leader would you like to join you on I'm a celebrity...?". Is it all one big joke?

It's pathetic really.

liamtech

gooch2k9 wrote: »

ITV's last question to Swinson: "Which other current leader would you like to join you on I'm a celebrity...?". Is it all one big joke?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's pathetic really.

bit much alright
Her straight answer to Nuclear Weapons - was most impressive - thats as impressed as i have been with Swinson

Straight forward

Would you use Nuclear Weapons - Yes

Aside from that - not impressed by these interviews - Sturgeon is doing better than Swinson too in my view

KaneToad

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's pathetic really.

It's pure ITV.

Corbyn was streets ahead of Johnson but the feeble minded little Englander will vote for Johnson. We are little better in this country, the electorate consistently return questionable representatives... Lowry, Mattie McGrath, Mick Wallace, Bettie Ahern, Danny Healy Rae...

dulpit

gooch2k9 wrote: »

ITV's last question to Swinson: "Which other current leader would you like to join you on I'm a celebrity...?". Is it all one big joke?

It's ITV. Tabloid to BBC's broadsheet. (channel 4 would be the guardian, Channel 5 the weekly sport)

The poll above shows 80% Corbyn and 20% Johnson, when you subdivide Don't Knows.

That's pretty much what you expect on this forum, but it doesn't represent the view among the British people which, at least in the polls I've seen thus far, show Boris Johnson a victory at 52%.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote: »

at least in the polls I've seen thus far, show Boris Johnson a victory.

Polls on Brexit Central do not show reality

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Polls on Brexit Central do not show reality

Sky News and YouGov, to be precise.

devnull

Interesting article:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/11/tories-conservative-party-cchq-factcheckuk-just-used-disinformation-trick-could-get-them-blocked-twitter

Smells a lot like Russian influence to me.

sid waddell

dulpit wrote: »

It's ITV. Tabloid to BBC's broadsheet. (channel 4 would be the guardian, Channel 5 the weekly sport)

The BBC has become The Daily Telegraph - an outlet which masquerades as broadsheet but in practice acts as a tabloid propaganda outlet.

GM228

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The poll above shows 80% Corbyn and 20% Johnson, when you subdivide Don't Knows.

That's pretty much what you expect on this forum, but it doesn't represent the view among the British people which, at least in the polls I've seen thus far, show Boris Johnson a victory at 52%.

Which is a more accurate reflection though?

A snap poll conducted and concluded immediately after the debate or a continuing poll where voters have more time to digest and consider what was said?

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

Which is a more accurate reflection though?

A snap poll conducted and concluded immediately after the debate or a continuing poll where voters have more time to digest and consider what was said?

A UK vote conducted under appropriate circumstances.

Definitely not a boards.ie poll.

Definitely...

A Dub in Glasgo

Kuenssberg sloshing around again

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1196903373238341634

Joe_ Public

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Kuenssberg sloshing around again

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1196903373238341634

Making a complete fool of herself and embarrassing her employers.

BonnieSituation

How is she still getting away with this?

*may be rhetorical.

GM228

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Making a complete fool of herself and embarrassing her employers.

Nothing new so.

ArmaniJeanss

Deleted User wrote: »

That's pretty much what you expect on this forum, but it doesn't represent the view among the British people which, at least in the polls I've seen thus far, show Boris Johnson a victory at 52%.

As I said in the other thread that may actually be a reasonable result for Corbyn. People tend to watch these things to have their view confirmed. As we know the Tories have a double figure lead (up to 18%) and Johnsons approval ratings are 2x those of Corbyn.
So clearly some people who went into it as Johnson 'backers' have declared Corbyn as the winner. Whether a subset of those will actually change their vote is the question.

Joe_ Public

GM228 wrote: »

Nothing new so.

Not particularly. Whatever about the inherent bias, the appalling lack of judgement in that tweet would really call into question her fitness for such a role.