Lisa Smith home.

Lefty Bicek

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

are you saying that you didnt delete a post that made that claim?

I deleted a post along the lines - in answer to your question - that I am not insisting that Lisa Smyth be charged with anything.

The reasons for that are because I don't know -

a) whether or not she has done anything that she could be tried for
b) whether or not there is any evidence for a), that could be used in a prosecution.

But if condition b) is met, by all means she should be tried. Of course.

If you are quoting this post -

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111921770&postcount=1019

- on the basis that you think I am supporting trial without evidence, then that is where the confusion lies.

Is that it ?

tuxy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody has any knowledge of what she has done. from a criminal perspective at least. we are also unlikely to ever receive any knowledge of same unless she admits to it. what that means is that she is unlikely to face a criminal trial.

Well it is possible that the Gardaí have something based on the info from American sources. I know its kind of wishful thinking, we will have to wait and see.

ohnonotgmail

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I deleted a post along the lines - in answer to your question - that I am not insisting that Lisa Smyth be charged with anything.

The reasons for that are because I don't know -

a) whether or not she has done anything that she could be tried for
b) whether or not there is any evidence for a), that could be used in a prosecution.

But if condition b) is met, by all means she should be tried. Of course.

If you are quoting this post -

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111921770&postcount=1019

- on the basis that you think I am supporting trial without evidence, then that is where the confusion lies.

Is that it ?

"bloody well ought to be" sounds pretty insistent to me. It seems we have some sort of communication difficulty so i'll stop replying to you.

ohnonotgmail

tuxy wrote: »

Well it is possible that the Gardaí have something based on the info from American sources. I know its kind of wishful thinking, we will have to wait and see.

about lisa smith in particular? one individual out of tens of thousands? an individual that was not in the chain of command?

Signore Fancy Pants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nobody has any knowledge of what she has done. from a criminal perspective at least. we are also unlikely to ever receive any knowledge of same unless she admits to it. what that means is that she is unlikely to face a criminal trial.

I'm not talking about her alleged acts in Tunisia/Syria.

Can you explain to me how she went from Dundalk to Syria?

tuxy

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

about lisa smith in particular? one individual out of tens of thousands? an individual that was not in the chain of command?

I know but it is probably all we have.

ohnonotgmail

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm not talking about her alleged acts in Tunisia/Syria.

Can you explain to me how she went from Dundalk to Syria?

fly to turkey and cross the border on foot i imagine. that was the usual route.

tuxy

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I'm not talking about her alleged acts in Tunisia/Syria.

Can you explain to me how she went from Dundalk to Syria?

Was it Dundalk - Tunisia - Turkey - Syria. Seems like a probable route.

Yurt2

In the BBC interview it was put to her that young women had identified her as the individual that trained them in handling weapons.

So they may have something on her.

Edit: Also, the way she spoke in the interview, it's clear this woman is no brain surgeon, and has some sort of personality disorder.

jmreire

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Because you're ignorant of history?

If it's the Crusades you are talking about, yes, Christian's slaughtered Muslims, and vice-verse. The difference is that, while the Christian's are no longer Crusading ( and have not been since the 15th century) Muslim extremists are still fighting them, They call anti-isis forces " The New Crusader's"....goes down very well propaganda-wise with the Islamic party faithfull. and aspiring isis /al-qaeda members.

tuxy

Yurt! wrote: »

In the BBC interview it was put to her that young women had identified her as the individual that trained them in handling weapons.

So they may have something on her.

Speaking of handling weapons
This picture makes it look like she has no idea how to hold a rifle but that can't be the case if she served in the Defence forces.

Signore Fancy Pants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

about lisa smith in particular? one individual out of tens of thousands? an individual that was not in the chain of command?

Not as simple as you make out.

Lisa Smith is a Western Islam convert with prior military experience from a country with various historic, diplomatic and international relations with the U.S.

If you don't understand the difference between a person like Lisa Smith and local/regional ISIS fighter...well you don't understand.

nthclare

tuxy wrote: »

Speaking of handling weapons
This picture makes it look like she has no idea how to hold a rifle but that can't be the case if she served in the Defence forces.

Is that her ?

Signore Fancy Pants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

fly to turkey and cross the border on foot i imagine. that was the usual route.

Yeah, thats not the answer I was looking for.

It's obvious you don't know the situation yet you are fully sure she should not be detained because of lack of evidence.

tuxy

nthclare wrote: »

Is that her ?

It is her in Tunisia.

ohnonotgmail

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Not as simple as you make out.

Lisa Smith is a Western Islam convert with prior military experience from a country with various historic, diplomatic and international relations with the U.S.

If you don't understand the difference between a person like Lisa Smith and local/regional ISIS fighter...well you don't understand.

as opposed to how many other western converts who actually fought for ISIS?

Lefty Bicek

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

"bloody well ought to be" sounds pretty insistent to me. It seems we have some sort of communication difficulty so i'll stop replying to you.

We only have a communication problem because you didn't have the basic courtesy to ask for clarification in the first place.

But then, who could even have a problem with the idea that people who do bad things 'bloody well ought to be tried' ? ? ?

It's not a radical suggestion. It's a commonplace of our society.

Furthermore, I said nothing to even indicate 'trial without evidence', and no reasonable person would have made that assumption.

I ought not to have had to make the distinction between the ideology and the individual either.

ohnonotgmail

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Yeah, thats not the answer I was looking for.

It's obvious you don't know the situation yet you are fully sure she should not be detained because of lack of evidence.

I dont think anybody should be detained if there is a lack of evidence. is that a controversial opinion?

jmreire

Brian? wrote: »

Plenty of Muslim people drink alcohol. I asked one of my Muslim colleagues and his take is that If there is no prohibition in the Quran, it does not matter.

But the problem is Brian..it is expressly forbidden in the Quran. Apparently, as it was explained to me, Mohammad was travelling on the road,and he came across a village where a wedding was taking place, and everyone was celebrating, drinking , dancing, music etc, Typical Wedding of the time, and at that point there was no ban on alcohol, or enjoyment either ) Mohammad went on his way, and a few days later he passed the village again on his way back, but he met with a completely different scenario. Fighting had broken out, some people had been killed, others injured and in general, mayhem had ensued when the villagers got drunk.So there and then, he put a blanket ban on alcohol and drinking, which applies to this day. Now that's the reason I was given and have no reason to doubt it.

nthclare

tuxy wrote: »

It is her in Tunisia.

So was she training people there ?

Sure has her shoulder and gun positioned like a soldier.

Signore Fancy Pants

tuxy wrote: »

Was it Dundalk - Tunisia - Turkey - Syria. Seems like a probable route.

Was looking to see could the poster differentiate between her ideological steps and choices which led to her being there, not the physical route she took.

He is hiding behind "lack of evidence" to support his views while ignoring Lisa Smith active intent to join ISIS and what that actually means.

We (on d'internet) don't have any physical evidence of her alleged acts. What we have is her intent, and her intent seems to have been ignored by some here.

Signore Fancy Pants

tuxy wrote: »

Speaking of handling weapons
This picture makes it look like she has no idea how to hold a rifle but that can't be the case if she served in the Defence forces.

If you are taking about the butt position on the shoulder, its skewed because of the jacket. Its a poser shot for a photo, not a firing position.

osarusan

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

He is hiding behind "lack of evidence" to support his views while ignoring Lisa Smith active intent to join ISIS and what that actually means.

We (on d'internet) don't have any physical evidence of her alleged acts. What we have is her intent, and her intent seems to have been ignored by some here.

As somebody who certainly hopes that there is something we can pin on her legally, how important is this intent in terms of building a case?

ohnonotgmail

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Was looking to see could the poster differentiate between her ideological steps and choices which led to her being there, not the physical route she took.

He is hiding behind "lack of evidence" to support his views while ignoring Lisa Smith active intent to join ISIS and what that actually means.

We (on d'internet) don't have any physical evidence of her alleged acts. What we have is her intent, and her intent seems to have been ignored by some here.

*sigh* I'll ask one more time and then i am done with this thread. I can only handle so much stupidity in one day.

what crimes do you think Lisa Smith has committed? Actual crimes, not things that you think should be crimes.

Boggles

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

All your fatuous buzzwords to hand, in one sentence. Neat.

How many times a week do you throw out the word 'Edgelord' at people ?

So you don't actually disagree with anything I said?

Fair enough.

tuxy

nthclare wrote: »

So was she training people there ?

Who knows.....
As it stands it's just a photo of her with a gun which is not illegal.

Signore Fancy Pants

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

as opposed to how many other western converts who actually fought for ISIS?

Even more simplistic again.

Well the difference is, Lisa Smith left Baghouz in Deir ez-Zeir when ISIS lost their last territory in 2018. Up to 70,000 women and kids left for al-Hawl refugee camp in al-Hasakah.

Out of that 70,000 there were less than 3,000 women and kids from Russia, Europe and the U.S.

Boggles

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Was looking to see could the poster differentiate between her ideological steps and choices which led to her being there, not the physical route she took.

He is hiding behind "lack of evidence" to support his views while ignoring Lisa Smith active intent to join ISIS and what that actually means.

We (on d'internet) don't have any physical evidence of her alleged acts. What we have is her intent, and her intent seems to have been ignored by some here.

Is intent to join or actually join evidence that can be used in a prosecution that would lead to a conviction?

That's really the only pertinent question.

My personal opinion is I don't think she is the vulnerable sheep she is making out to be.

jmreire

Field east wrote: »

Would also depend on whether it is a man or a woman and their status in society

I don't think so Field east...It's expressly forbidden for a Muslim, man or woman to leave Islam. Their status has nothing to do with it. They can dissolve a marriage very quick,but the Religion is pretty much a life long commitment, and carry's severe penalty's for anyone who leaves. This does not change the fact that every year, many Muslims do leave, but they would mainly be in western Country's where they will not be punished if they leave. The nearer you get to hard line Islamic Country's, the harder it will be to leave.

ohnonotgmail

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Even more simplistic again.

Well the difference is, Lisa Smith left Baghouz in Deir ez-Zeir when ISIS lost their last territory in 2018. Up to 70,000 women and kids left for al-Hawl refugee camp in al-Hasakah.

Out of that 70,000 there were less than 3,000 women and kids from Russia, Europe and the U.S.

and you think that US intelligence might have information on one specific individual? I mean, they might, but unlikely.