Lisa Smith home.

ChikiChiki

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

It wasnt. The flight to Baldonnel was a DOJ migrant flight.

We are flying in migrants now to fuel the lucrative Direct Provision industry. That sounds like another can of worms has inadvertently got caught up in this ffs.

Mules

jmreire wrote: »

Oh, but the Syrian's did get their hand's on many isis fighter's Mules, and meted out there own brand of Justice. Not in any Court of Law though..Any isis ( or other ) prisoner's the Syrian Army took got short shrift. Interrogation, and execution, job done, exactly what isis had done to their prisoner's. You never hear much about any prisoners that the Syrian Army took, but they took a lot.

If someone commits a crime in Syria should they not face Syrian justice?

Duke of Url

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Migrants? It defo wasnt soldiers landing in Bal. Im one of the lads that came home from Lebanon last Monday...we landed in Dublin airport.

You should do an AMA. I think it would be an interesting topic

jmayo

ChikiChiki wrote: »

We are flying in migrants now to fuel the lucrative Direct Provision industry. That sounds like another can of worms has inadvertently got caught up in this ffs.

Think about who could be on a flight from Lebanon.
There are a lot of real refugees in Lebanon and we are supposed to take some of them.
Makes a change to the African, Albania and Georgian chancers.

end of the road

ChikiChiki wrote: »

ISIS are the most barbaric group of our time. At the point Lisa Smith joined them there were videos online a couple of years at that stage of them throwing people of buildings for their sexuality and burning people alive in cages. They actively went out of their way to give people the most appalling torturous deaths. You can be guaranteed all of us on boards who didn't agree with them would meet a ghastly end if it came to it.

She knew what she was getting into. Absolutely 110% she should be left stateless. It sets a strong precedent. I do not want to see her walking the streets of Ireland whatsoever.

yes, leaving someone stateless does indeed set a strong precedent, but not the one you are hoping for.
the precedent it sets is that countries can break international law, and refuse to take back their citizens for any reason, try dump them on other countries, and when that fails, let these people wander around the world, and in the case of the terrorism minded, putting everyone at potential risk.
leaving someone stateless is not possible, any country who has tried it, will find it is not going to work out for them.

Mules wrote: »

If someone commits a crime in Syria should they not face Syrian justice?

if the syrians decide that is what should happen, yes, if they decide not, then no .
it is their decision and their decision alone, as to whether they wish to deal with foreign isis fighters, and if they decide they do not wish to, then that is it.

jmreire

Mules wrote: »

If someone commits a crime in Syria should they not face Syrian justice?

In normal time's and a normal functioning society, that's the way it would work. But these times in Syria are not normal, by any stretch of the imagination, so no, the Syrians will not take any responsibility for trying and sentencing the many thousand's of "Foreign" isis fighter's and their Family's. Iraqi and Syrian isis members would be a different kettle of fish though. Would be very interesting to see if they even have any captured isis members in prison in the territory they now control. Most of the isis prisoners are being held in the Northern part of the country under Kurdish control, and more recently, in the Turkish controlled area. Sometime in the distant future, we will know a lot more than we know now.

tuxy

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Absolutely 110% she should be left stateless.

Is that actually an option? I know it is illegal under international law but do you know of some loophole?

ohnonotgmail

tuxy wrote: »

Is that actually an option? I know it is illegal under international law but do you know of some loophole?

It isn't an option.

171170

ChikiChiki wrote: »

ISIS are the most barbaric group of our time. At the point Lisa Smith joined them there were videos online a couple of years at that stage of them throwing people of buildings for their sexuality and burning people alive in cages. They actively went out of their way to give people the most appalling torturous deaths. You can be guaranteed all of us on boards who didn't agree with them would meet a ghastly end if it came to it.

She knew what she was getting into. Absolutely 110% she should be left stateless. It sets a strong precedent. I do not want to see her walking the streets of Ireland whatsoever.

We probably need a Constitutional amendment that would enable the State to remove Irish Citizenship from anyone in exceptional circumstances*. Perhaps this could be done only following Dail and Seanad votes where a 67% majority (say) is achieved.

* To the best of my knowledge currently no such provision exists, although I'd welcome any correction if I'm wrong.


Addendum: If it's illegal under international law, I'm sure we could come to some arrangement with the likes of Angola or Libya to arrange alternative citizenship for the individual concerned.

ohnonotgmail

171170 wrote: »

We probably need a Constitutional amendment that would enable the State to remove Irish Citizenship from anyone in exceptional circumstances*. Perhaps this could be done only following Dail and Seanad votes where a 67% majority (say) is achieved.

* To the best of my knowledge currently no such provision exists, although I'd welcome any correction if I'm wrong.


If it's illegal under international law, I'm sure we could come to some arrangement with the likes of Angola or Libya to arrange alternative citizenship for the individual.

We are a party to the 1954 UN Convention on Stateless persons so this is not going to happen.

Gods Gift

So the Irish government cannot just cancel someone’s passport when out of the country?

Always thought that would be a useful tool to have for when well know criminals and drug dealers went to Spain for 1 of their dozen or so yearly holidays.

Gods Gift

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We are a party to the 1954 UN Convention on Stateless persons so this is not going to happen.

Thanks for that.

ohnonotgmail

Gods Gift wrote: »

So the Irish government cannot just cancel someone’s passport when out of the country?

Always thought that would be a useful tool to have for when well know criminals and drug dealers went to Spain for 1 of their dozen or so yearly holidays.

It cannot.

elperello

171170 wrote: »

We probably need a Constitutional amendment that would enable the State to remove Irish Citizenship from anyone in exceptional circumstances*. Perhaps this could be done only following Dail and Seanad votes where a 67% majority (say) is achieved.

* To the best of my knowledge currently no such provision exists, although I'd welcome any correction if I'm wrong.


Addendum: If it's illegal under international law, I'm sure we could come to some arrangement with the likes of Angola or Libya to arrange alternative citizenship for the individual concerned.

Maybe if Angola or Libya won't play ball we could try Fantasy Island.

BalcombeSt4

ted1 wrote: »

Saudis? It was America that started it, they shifted the whole balance in the region that created ISIS

That is true, but the Saudi's & Israeli's are the most de-stabalizing countries in the region itself, America is the most de-stabalizing force outside the region or if you want to trace it back to it's origins it started with Britain in WW1 with Dody Dave (Llyod George) doing dodgy dealings under the table, promising everything to everybody, and delivering nothing to everyone & helping to start angry revolts & rebellions everywhere.

BalcombeSt4

Mules wrote: »

If someone commits a crime in Syria should they not face Syrian justice?

Dozens of UVF & UDA men commited crimes in the Irish state but not one faced Irish justice.

BalcombeSt4

Deleted User wrote: »

True enough. We don't. But we could 'allow' her to be taken by US intelligence for her terrorist links, and so, she disappears into Guantanamo Bay. And we have allowed the US intelligence forces to operate on Irish soil, with very weak objections, that were quickly forgotten.

She's a member of an international terrorist organisation. She might claim to have left but I suspect it's like the Mafia. Once in, never completely out. She should be tried as a terrorist, and exiled to some other country that is willing to settle the matter.

So she ends up on Cuban soil.

tuxy

Gods Gift wrote: »

So the Irish government cannot just cancel someone’s passport when out of the country?

Always thought that would be a useful tool to have for when well know criminals and drug dealers went to Spain for 1 of their dozen or so yearly holidays.

How would that be a good thing? Ireland would also end up with criminals from other counties that we can't remove. It would just become some weird game of passing as many criminals as you can off on other countries. Do you not think countries have no responsibility for their own citizens?

Fr_Dougal

tuxy wrote: »

How would that be a good thing? Ireland would also end up with criminals from other counties that we can't remove. It would just become some weird game of passing as many criminals as you can off on other countries. Do you not think countries have any responsibility for their citizens?

We tend not to deport criminals anyway, lots of criminal asylum seekers etc are not deported.

tuxy

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

We tend not to deport criminals anyway, lots of criminal asylum seekers etc are not deported.

That's our choice (not a good one) but in general it would be terrible if all countries could force other countries to take their criminals.

BalcombeSt4

jmreire wrote: »

Yes, under our Law's and Constitution....and of course our "Democracy "...I have often made the point that "Democracy will be the death of Democracy", and your post is a case in point. Radical Islam ( or indeed any Islam) but the radical version's especially, are completely anti-democratic. Unless the govt comes up with a solution, legally and democratically, there is not a lot that can be done with Lisa.( except 24/7 monitoring etc ) The same situation would not exist in an Islamic Country.

So to keep Democracy alive we should be anti-Democratic? That's a terrible point you keep making, if you do indeed make it often.

Do you know what ended Democracy in Spain? Anti-Democratic forces, the Left won the election so the military & Fascist forces launched a coup that started a bloody civil war. A similar sort of pattern happened in many South & Central American countries in the 50's, 60's, 70's, like in Chile, Guatemala, Brazil etc... Democratic forces like Allende's Chile win elections, military coup launched, military juanta installed.

Do you know what ended Democracy in Russia? Anti-Democratic forces, the Left won the election so the Bolshevik forces launched a coup that started a bloody civil war.

Do you know what ended Democracy in Germany? Power was handed to Anti-Democratic forces who passed laws to end Democracy there, similar situation in Italy were power was handed to Fascists.

Do you know what strenghtend Democracy in Britain after WW2 when Democracy was very shaky? The passing of more Democratic laws by Attlee's Government. Thatcher crushing local government & Trade Unions in the 80's was a worrying sign.

I can't think of one case in point were being more Democratic destroyed Democracy. And I don't know how it would weaken Democracy in this case either, as far as I know Lisa Smith doesn't lead a large Fascist party in Ireland that is poised to gain a majority in the Dail at the next election, and isn't a commander of any part of the Irish Army that could launch a coup at any moment.

I think people on the right would secretly like a terrorist attack to happen i Ireland carried out by Muslims, so they can turn around and say "haha we told you so, stupid SJW's", because everything they are suggesting would only increase terrorist activity.
I'm not arguing that a terrorist attack isn't possible it is, but lumping all Muslims together as terrorists & claim their incapable of being Democratic only helps to alienate Muslims in this country & increases the likehood of terrorists attacking Ireland. Britain learned this the hard way in the 70's when they stuck only Catholic people in concentration camps & only shot at Catholic civilians.

A serving officer of the British Royal Marines declared: "It (internment) has, in fact, increased terrorist activity, perhaps boosted IRA recruitment, polarised further the Catholic and Protestant communities and reduced the ranks of the much needed Catholic moderates"

So these anti-Democratic measures will only help boost the cause of ISIS & other Muslim extremists so they can turn around & say "look, I told you these people were all bigots who hate Muslims". And people like Choudary would jump at the chance to exploit it.

jmreire

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

So to keep Democracy alive we should be anti-Democratic? That's a terrible point you keep making, if you do indeed make it often.

Do you know what ended Democracy in Spain? Anti-Democratic forces, the Left won the election so the military & Fascist forces launched a coup that started a bloody civil war. A similar sort of pattern happened in many South & Central American countries in the 50's, 60's, 70's, like in Chile, Guatemala, Brazil etc... Democratic forces like Allende's Chile win elections, military coup launched, military juanta installed.

Do you know what ended Democracy in Russia? Anti-Democratic forces, the Left won the election so the Bolshevik forces launched a coup that started a bloody civil war.

Do you know what ended Democracy in Germany? Power was handed to Anti-Democratic forces who passed laws to end Democracy there, similar situation in Italy were power was handed to Fascists.

Do you know what strenghtend Democracy in Britain after WW2 when Democracy was very shaky? The passing of more Democratic laws by Attlee's Government. Thatcher crushing local government & Trade Unions in the 80's was a worrying sign.

I can't think of one case in point were being more Democratic destroyed Democracy. And I don't know how it would weaken Democracy in this case either, as far as I know Lisa Smith doesn't lead a large Fascist party in Ireland that is poised to gain a majority in the Dail at the next election, and isn't a commander of any part of the Irish Army that could launch a coup at any moment.

I think people on the right would secretly like a terrorist attack to happen i Ireland carried out by Muslims, so they can turn around and say "haha we told you so, stupid SJW's", because everything they are suggesting would only increase terrorist activity.
I'm not arguing that a terrorist attack isn't possible it is, but lumping all Muslims together as terrorists & claim their incapable of being Democratic only helps to alienate Muslims in this country & increases the likehood of terrorists attacking Ireland. Britain learned this the hard way in the 70's when they stuck only Catholic people in concentration camps & only shot at Catholic civilians.



So these anti-Democratic measures will only help boost the cause of ISIS & other Muslim extremists so they can turn around & say "look, I told you these people were all bigots who hate Muslims". And people like Choudary would jump at the chance to exploit it.

My point is, a democracy by its very definition..equal rights to all, every one has a voice, and a vote, Right? So under democratic rules, maybe I don't like your view's or what you are saying, but I will defend your right to hold these view's and speak as you wish.
Say there is an election,and your party ( or mine, ) set's out it's agenda ( the fact that this agenda is based on lies, promise's and fake new's etc. is ignored ) and it romps home with a comfortable margin. But then after awhile, the false image begins to wear off. Reality come's to the fore,the population, realises that it has been cheated and lied to, and react's.To counteract this the Govt imposes stricter and more repressive law's. And soon Democracy has gone out the window. Now my point is, in this case Democracy, by it's very nature, allowed itself to be destroyed. The above is a very brief and hypothetical example of what I mean. Personally, what I think about Democracy is that while it may not be perfect, it's the best we have come up with so far. But it is open to exploitation, and has been exploited in the past. And that is what I mean when I said that "Democracy will be the death of Democracy"

Gerianam

She is coming home.

Irish Independent Tuesday 26 November 2019
Isis bride Lisa Smith expected back in Ireland this week and will be questioned by anti-terror gardai

bigroad

Gerianam wrote: »

She is coming home.

Irish Independent Tuesday 26 November 2019
Isis bride Lisa Smith expected back in Ireland this week and will be questioned by anti-terror gardai

They must be same anti terror gardai that were in Rosslare recently.

Allinall

bigroad wrote: »

They must be same anti terror gardai that were in Rosslare recently.

Were there terrorists in Rosslare?

Why didn’t you report it?

jmreire

Gerianam wrote: »

She is coming home.

Irish Independent Tuesday 26 November 2019
Isis bride Lisa Smith expected back in Ireland this week and will be questioned by anti-terror gardai

Given the recent questioning she has had, I'd safely say that she will have all the answer's......and under less stressful conditions. with a Solicitor by her side?

bigroad

Allinall wrote: »

Were there terrorists in Rosslare?

Why didn’t you report it?

I wasn't there were you.

tuxy

bigroad wrote: »

I wasn't there were you.

As doubtful as there being anti terror gardai(is that a thing?) there.

bigroad

tuxy wrote: »

As doubtful as there being anti terror gardai(is that a thing?) there.

They should be there whena truck load of unknown middle eastern men land in from a war torn country.wouldn't you think.

tuxy

bigroad wrote: »

They should be there whena truck load of unknown middle eastern men land in from a war torn country.wouldn't you think.

Who should be there?
Allinall?