Indicator lights for Bicycle

Builderfromhell

I sometimes find it awkward to give hand signal at junctions etc. for many reasons, going up a hill, pot holed road etc. I would like to get indicator bicycle lights and wondered if any one knew the legalities around them. I think a cyclist should give hand signals and there are unlikely to be rules governing indicator lights.

magicbastarder

as posted by our very own tomasrojo:

De Bhál

magicbastarder wrote: »

as posted by our very own tomasrojo:

It's a good idea but some people are not comfortable cycling with one hand on the handlebars.

07Lapierre

De Bh111834176 wrote:

It's a good idea but some people are not comfortable cycling with one hand on the handlebars.

Cycling one handed, while signaling and braking is a vital skill all cyclists should learn.

endacl

07Lapierre wrote: »

Cycling one handed, while signaling and braking is a vital skill all cyclists should learn.

Cycling no handed at the beginning of a winter descent while stuffing sheets of newspaper down the front of your jersey used to be a vital skill.

I blame proper winter gear for the decline.

ted1

Halfords have one that goes on your bike.

https://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=334809&productId=1462335&storeId=11101

07Lapierre

endacl wrote: »

Cycling no handed at the beginning of a winter descent while stuffing sheets of newspaper down the front of your jersey used to be a vital skill.

I blame proper winter gear for the decline.

Disagree, it’s been replaced by riding no handed while putting on a rain cape! Still a vital skill worth learning.

endacl

tomasrojo

ted1 wrote: »

Halfords have one that goes on your bike.

https://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?catalogId=15551&langId=-1&categoryId=334809&productId=1462335&storeId=11101

Saw one in the wild: Goatstown, earlier this week.

Builderfromhell

In the event of a car hitting a cyclist and then claiming the cyclist didn't use hand signals, I wonder would one of these battery powered indicator lights be considered acceptable in a court.
What I'm really wondering is, if I buy an indicator will I still, legally, need to give hand signals

Oink

Builderfromhell wrote: »

In the event of a car hitting a cyclist and then claiming the cyclist didn't use hand signals, I wonder would one of these battery powered indicator lights be considered acceptable in a court.
What I'm really wondering is, if I buy an indicator will I still, legally, need to give hand signals

My thoughts exactly. Also, I love the idea but in practice would a post-lobotomy driver think “hey this cyclist is about to turn”, or “dafuq kinda bike light is this oh **** better brake”? Is it really clear and unambiguous in real life?

07Lapierre

It’s not just about indicating, you have to confirm it is safe to do so before turning. Cyclists must LOOK over their shoulder and ensure it is safe to turn. Indicating your intention to turn is not enough.

Weather you use indicators or your arm, you still have to be sure it’s safe to turn before turning.

At least, that’s the way it’s supposed to work!

tomasrojo

I don't know how the Halford's backpack indicator signal works out in practice, but it seemed reasonably conspicuous and clear to me when I saw it the other day. But a habitual cyclist probably sees the world quite differently from someone who never cycles. For a start, I was instantly thinking "Oh, what's that?" and my attention was drawn just on that basis. Maybe not everyone's response to seeing it.

My problem with it, without having tried it admittedly, is that it looks like a bit too much extra work, with wireless connections, handlebar paraphernalia and having to find a place to mount the light so it's pointing in about the right direction. If you like cycling in the drops, for example, it probably will be signalling mainly to birds on the wing when it's mounted on a backpack.

axer

The problem is that the vast majority of other road users are not expecting indicator lights to be used by a cyclist so you cannot rely on them to act accordingly which using indicator lights pointless if not dangerous. In my opinion it is somewhat dangerous for you to be on the road cycling if you cannot ride one handed and be able to glance over your shoulder.

machiavellianme

My problem with hand signals in heavy traffic is that there's often some impatient driver who pops into the cycle/bus lane and nearly takes the arm off you as you approach a junction. Buses are also a threat. I hate sticking my hand out in the dark too after getting whacked a few years ago by an overtaking bin lorry.

magicbastarder

Builderfromhell wrote: »

In the event of a car hitting a cyclist and then claiming the cyclist didn't use hand signals, I wonder would one of these battery powered indicator lights be considered acceptable in a court.
What I'm really wondering is, if I buy an indicator will I still, legally, need to give hand signals

I suspect the Halfords indicator is simply not catered for in the regs. One issue is that an indicator is - AFAIK - down to position, not the actual symbol. And usually if you see an arrow on a road symbol, it's an instruction to the road user 'go this way' or 'use this Lane' rather than indicating that's what the wearer intends.

secman

Speaking as both car user and bike user, hopefully users of the Halford kit don't think once they indicate they then have a right to turn. Does my head in on the road, every day you see driviers indicating and moving just as they indicate

tomasrojo

I'm not sure there are any stipulations for direction indicators for bicycles. Everyone is allowed to use hand signals, but I don't think (could be wrong) there are any specific rules for direction indicators for vehicles that aren't mechanically propelled. Which I assume, quite possibly wrongly, that you still have to indicate via hand signals.

EDIT: Seems to be article 18 here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/189/made/en/print

(4) (a) Direction indicators shall be fitted in pairs, one indicator of each pair (to indicate a change of direction to the left) being fitted to the left of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle to which it is fitted, and the other (to indicate a change of direction to the right) to the right of such axis.

This applies to flashing lights or semaphore-style signals.

tomasrojo

1) Where a vehicle which is not required by these Regulations to be equipped with direction indicators is equipped with direction indicators, the indicators shall comply as far as practicable, having regard to the construction of the vehicle, with the requirements of article 18 of these Regulations and in particular they shall—

(a) be fitted in one or more pairs, one indicator of each pair (to indicate a change of direction to the left) being fitted to the left of the longitudinal axis of the vehicle to which it is fitted and the other (to indicate a change of direction to the right) being fitted to the right of such axis,

So I suppose, unless there is later legislation, the backpack direction indicator maybe doesn't meet the regulations.

tomasrojo

In case anyone wants to know, the hand signals are in Table B here:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

Doesn't have much! Left and right, that's it for cyclists. Maybe a straight-ahead signal that pretty much no-one understands.

I think the Rules of the Road used to have a slowing-down signal, which was patting an invisible dog, more or less.

Yeah, still there, page 107:
http://www.rotr.ie/Rules_of_the_road.pdf

ED E

If you're going to do it buy a helmet that has integrated indicators.

tomasrojo

In terms of legality, I think helmet indicator signals might in some cases fall foul of the rule that indicators can't be more than six feet/four cubits above the ground. And have to be attached to the vehicle.

rubadub

ED E wrote: »

If you're going to do it buy a helmet that has integrated indicators.

they may not want to wear a helmet for safety reasons, as I do, or for other reasons.

Most motorists just ignore my hand signals anyway, if they ignore those little chance of me even considering stuff with no legal bearing. You will see plenty of motorists signalling wrongly, I presume knocking it on by mistake or the wrong direction by mistake, which I can understand. I find it odd that motorists seem to presume I am mistakenly sticking my hand out to signal turning though!! I guess they also have it in their head that people signalling might get it wrong and not cop on that cyclists will not be the same.

I usually only signal to aid motorists, i.e. let them know they are free to pull out from a junction as I am turning into it. It would be extremely rare for me to signal that I am pulling out in front of them, as I just do not do that. I find it safer to presume they are all homicidal psychos and just give way, I know some do not agree with that but I know I arrive to my destination with far less stress after doing so.

I find many drivers more courteous these days, which I actually often find annoying. e.g. I am cycling on a cycle track on a footpath and a car passes me well in advance and is signalling left, instead of just going left which would not have caused me to even slow down they will now stop and wait ages for me to go on. Instead of just slowing to let them know they should go I find I have to completely stop and put 2 feet down and wave them on to go around.

There is no way in hell I am risking it, in my mind this could have been the same crazy fcuker who gave me a punishment pass last night and is out to get me proper this time!

C3PO

I almost never use hand signals. To my mind, the use of hand signals implies that you expect the driver to alter their behaviour to let you complete a manoeuvre - I simply wouldn't trust them to do that!

AndrewJRenko

tomasrojo wrote: »

Saw one in the wild: Goatstown, earlier this week.

A lady cyclist? I've seen a lady with one around Dundrum a couple of times.

axer

C3PO wrote: »

I almost never use hand signals. To my mind, the use of hand signals implies that you expect the driver to alter their behaviour to let you complete a manoeuvre - I simply wouldn't trust them to do that!

they are about making you more predictable on the road. I never signal then just start the maneuver. I glance over my shoulder, then signal, then glance over my shoulder again then make my move. Most times if a car was approaching from behind I will see that they have now slowed down/moved or something which let's me know they are responding to my signal. I don't know how I would get around the place safely without using signals.no indicating by any road user is just increasing risk or requires you to give way to all traffic.

Brian?

De Bhál wrote: »

It's a good idea but some people are not comfortable cycling with one hand on the handlebars.

Those people should get comfortable with it ASAP.

tigerboon

As a driver you are constantly anticipating things so you're watching out for certain actions. Brake lights up ahead, pedestrian at the edge of footpaths etc. A lot of these things are 2nd nature because of experience. When passing cyclists, you're watching for hand signals and sudden movement off their line. You're not naturally looking for a bit of gimmicky lighting which may or may not be strapped to their back. Hand signals are the established norm. If people are nervous of lifting their arm then go and practice in an empty car park in the evening.
I don't like that Halfords thing. It'll lead to cyclists thinking that it's ok just to flick a switch and move without looking behind (yes, like a lot of drivers). It'll create "accidents ".

tomasrojo

rubadub wrote: »

I find many drivers more courteous these days, which I actually often find annoying. e.g. I am cycling on a cycle track on a footpath and a car passes me well in advance and is signalling left, instead of just going left which would not have caused me to even slow down they will now stop and wait ages for me to go on. Instead of just slowing to let them know they should go I find I have to completely stop and put 2 feet down and wave them on to go around.

I have this exact same problem. It used to be simpler: they were definitely turning once they signalled! I can understand if the driver at this stage thinks they can't win: one set of people on bikes giving out if they do turn left straight away and another giving out if they don't turn straight away!

tomasrojo

axer wrote: »

they are about making you more predictable on the road. I never signal then just start the maneuver. I glance over my shoulder, then signal, then glance over my shoulder again then make my move. Most times if a car was approaching from behind I will see that they have now slowed down/moved or something which let's me know they are responding to my signal. I don't know how I would get around the place safely without using signals.no indicating by any road user is just increasing risk or requires you to give way to all traffic.

Yes, I think it's exactly the same principle as Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre in a car: you have a quick look, make sure you're not forcing someone to slow down or take evasive action, tell people where you're going, and then go there.

One of my wrist lights was out of action the other day on my evening commute home, and I did find the going a little harder than normal. As I said, you hardly ever see anyone with wrist lights, but personally, they do make life a little easier: more for making sure people waiting to cross your path have seen you for sure; there's a lot of wishful thinking about "gaps" in traffic.

tomasrojo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

A lady cyclist? I've seen a lady with one around Dundrum a couple of times.

Think it was a man, but I'm not sure. Didn't get a good look. They were turning the corner when I noticed them. I was in a different lane, going straight ahead. They were heading towards Dundrum anyway.