Heart rate training - strap or watch?

Seve OB

saccades wrote: »

Chest, a lot more accurate than the wrist stuff.

I've a Garmin Premium chest strap.

I've also a Garmin Vivoactice 3 watch.

I've tested the Vivoactive side by side against my chest strap paired with my Forerunner & Edge.

Result............ feck all difference.



Edit, re people who are finding differences and saying the chest strap is much better, well could it be they are using cheaper watches?

Cionn

I have the vivioactive 3 watch too. but it stopped broadcasting the HR to my head unit. for cycling (this forum) I think the chest strap is better.

I also find HR very helpful, I am able to assess my percentage of time in a zone vrs the comparable spins 8/12/18 months ago and see where I am. It may not be 100% scientifically robust but its a good help for me.

I plan to use HR and Cadance over the winter to help me along, I am already trying to introduce high cadance intervals on my daily commute to see how that helps my fitness.

Seve OB

Cionn wrote: »

I have the vivioactive 3 watch too. but it stopped broadcasting the HR to my head unit. for cycling (this forum) I think the chest strap is better.

I also find HR very helpful, I am able to assess my percentage of time in a zone vrs the comparable spins 8/12/18 months ago and see where I am. It may not be 100% scientifically robust but its a good help for me.

I plan to use HR and Cadance over the winter to help me along, I am already trying to introduce high cadance intervals on my daily commute to see how that helps my fitness.

do you know what, now I think about it, if you want to keep an eye on your HR, having it displayed on the Edge (and broadcast head unit(will have to check that out)),then the chest strap would be better.

my point was simply that they both record very similar readings

CramCycle

There are issues with most wrist watches (in the way they measure). Enough to make a difference? for most people, no. For those who take it seriously or want to keep an accurate track while in the middle of exercising, it will.

Macy0161

It can be wrist position on the bars too for cycling, and skin tone can effect optical heart rate. Having said that, the latest iteration of of Garmin watches seem to be a step up and pretty accurate, as deemed by the likes of DC Rainmaker.

54and56

CramCycle wrote: »

There are issues with most wrist watches (in the way they measure). Enough to make a difference? for most people, no. For those who take it seriously or want to keep an accurate track while in the middle of exercising, it will.

The three things which convinced me to go with a strap rather than a watch/wrist monitor, which I'd likely find more convenient to use/wear, were:-

1. The strap is located close to the heart and measures the electrical pulses of your heart beats whereas wrist based devices use "photoplethysmography" (the process of using light to measure blood flow) as a proxy to determine BPM.

2. Not sure of the veracity of these claims but I read a number of times that whereas straps deliver real time readings watch/wrist monitor readings can have a lag ranging form 1-2 seconds to 20 seconds. Maybe that's because the wrist monitors have to interpret the measured blood flow or there are gaps in the blood flow data if the sensor isn't confident of the readings it's getting or whatever but for me a 20 second gap could be too late, I could already be in the red zone before I get the reading!!

3. Decent HR straps are inexpensive €30 - €50 whereas cheap wrist monitors tend to have unreliable or slow readings and decent / reliable wrist monitors tend to be much more expensive.

Time will tell if I've made the right decision.

saccades

Seve OB wrote: »

I've a Garmin Premium chest strap.

I've also a Garmin Vivoactice 3 watch.

I've tested the Vivoactive side by side against my chest strap paired with my Forerunner & Edge.

Result............ feck all difference.



Edit, re people who are finding differences and saying the chest strap is much better, well could it be they are using cheaper watches?

Possibly, but even garmin have a disclaimer on their desktop version about accuracy of wrist data, so i suspect that the majority of people get more accurate results from a chest strap.

54and56

G1032 wrote: »

You should check out HRV...

So it turns out the cheap/generic heart rate strap I linked to earlier not only works but also produces a consistent enough signal for HRV measurement.

I know there's a HRV option on the Garmin Connect app or via a Connect IQ app you can install for when I'm out on the road and that the strap will connect to the Garmin Edge Explorer I have on the bike (cadence already connected to it) but as I didn't get out on the bike this weekend for various reasons I just tried the strap out via the Elite HRV app on my phone during a 45 minute spin class and here's the readings:-



I'm early 50's, about 15kg heavier than I should be and my resting HR ranges between 66-68 but I've no idea how to interpret the HRV readings.

Time to collect a good sample over a few weeks of spin classes and actual longer spins and read up so I do understand how to read and use HRV to improve how I manage my training.

G1032

54and56 wrote: »

So it turns out the cheap/generic heart rate strap I linked to earlier not only works but also produces a consistent enough signal for HRV measurement.

I know there's a HRV option on the Garmin Connect app or via a Connect IQ app you can install for when I'm out on the road and that the strap will connect to the Garmin Edge Explorer I have on the bike (cadence already connected to it) but as I didn't get out on the bike this weekend for various reasons I just tried the strap out via the Elite HRV app on my phone during a 45 minute spin class and here's the readings:-

I'm early 50's, about 15kg heavier than I should be and my resting HR ranges between 66-68 but I've no idea how to interpret the HRV readings.

Time to collect a good sample over a few weeks of spin classes and actual longer spins and read up so I do understand how to read and use HRV to improve how I manage my training.

I'm not sure HRV is something to be measured during exercise. It's more something you need to check in the morning after you get up before the stresses of the day begin to take hold! Some even recommend you take it over the course of the night.
There are loads of articles and videos explaining it and how to interpret it.

Edit:
GCN video here
https://youtu.be/XzQJzDzXBG4

Elite HRV also send links to very informative articles via email

straighttohell

100% go for a chest strap. They can be cheap & accurate.....

siochain

G1032 wrote: »

You should check out HRV...

+1
Whoop are very accurate for HR reading, I've compared against Garmin & Kicker chest straps and they come in all the same. The HRV readings and stuff in whoop is educational and help with training smarter.

Taxuser1

54and56 wrote: »

A challenging spin would be a the Laragh - Sally Gap loop below.

I can grind out the long drags but struggle hard with the steeper inclines and often blow up early.





Other than for very short bursts once I get in the granny ring I tend to stay in the saddle and try to find a steady cadence I can stick with to get the climb done.

I do spin classes 2-3 times a week and the weird thing is on a spin bike I prefer standing climbs but on the road I struggle to spend any real time standing. I've had a professional bike fit etc so it shouldn't be that I'm not well set up on the road bike.



Before I go messing with the gearing I think I'll invest in a HR Strap and see if that'll help me control my pace when climbing. Apart from that objective I'd also like to gather HRM data so that over time I can see how my HR is averaging, what the peaks are etc.

seems to me you've nailed the problem ahead of any heart strap - you're killing yourself on the steep bits and not recovering for the remainder. I wonder do you cycle with others when this happens? Possibly lighter lads will hit these steep bits faster and with less strain and you're struggling to match them which puts you anaerobic and from which you're then struggling to get back to threshold

i've heart and power and both have their place but nothing wrong with perceived effort too and past form. if you know the climb and you know the steep pinch points take it into account in your spin and leave the other lads go ahead, ride your own pace. power tells you the exact average number, heart will rocket if you go over it but it seems to me you know exactly what the problem is.

Taxuser1

and +1 for Wahoo Tickr over Garmin 100 times out of 100 having tried and tested many. also pay for any HRV app when you get a heart strap. Some days are better than others to train on a bike, and HRV tells you that in the night and morning before any spin. I use Elite HRV which syncs with training peaks and other apps.

dahat

Taxuser1 wrote: »

and +1 for Wahoo Tickr over Garmin 100 times out of 100 having tried and tested many. also pay for any HRV app when you get a heart strap. Some days are better than others to train on a bike, and HRV tells you that in the night and morning before any spin. I use Elite HRV which syncs with training peaks and other apps.

How can I set myself up for HRV?

Its an interesting metric I'd like to explore. I currently use a Garmin strap with a Wahoo bolt.

G1032

dahat wrote: »

How can I set myself up for HRV?

Its an interesting metric I'd like to explore. I currently use a Garmin strap with a Wahoo bolt.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.elitehrv.app&hl=en

You'll check your HRV each morning. Initial readings will set your baseline.
Follow the same routine before and during check each day, down to sitting in the same position.

There is a mountain of info out there about it. It's fascinating really when you start do dig into it. Elite HRV will send you plenty info via email after you set up

Here's an article I came across the last day. Worth a read too.
https://hrvcourse.com/the-8-biggest-mistakes-made-when-measuring-hrv/

You can link the Elite HRV app with Training Peaks so the daily reading will be exported to TP. TP plots the data on graphs then for you.

GCN have a good video up on YouTube about it too.

Macy0161

Anyone used the Stress Level on the recent Garmin watches and compared it to the likes of the Apps? I googled HRV and Garmin, and got pointed towards the stress level. Hadn't realised it was along the same lines of HRV until I searched last night.

straighttohell

you're gone well into the red there, with 170 plus. Ten minutes of that and about 30 minutes later you just want to collapse into a ditch and for me I wouldnt feel right till the following day. Do your threshold calc and try and not go beyond that for more than a minute or so.

54and56

straighttohell wrote: »

you're gone well into the red there, with 170 plus. Ten minutes of that and about 30 minutes later you just want to collapse into a ditch and for me I wouldnt feel right till the following day. Do your threshold calc and try and not go beyond that for more than a minute or so.

The HR readings do have a few spikes of up to 170 alright but it's very much a brief (30 second max) occurrence. I've been using the HR strap for a few weeks now and I find it very useful to manage my training. I can tip along happily at anything up to 140 BPM but under stress (always climbing) I've noticed that I scan sustain 150 BPM or even 155 BPM for a few minutes but if I don't get it back into the 140's I'll blow up fairly quickly.

As a complete aside I take Hypertension (high blood pressure) medication which might suppress my max HR level relative to the norm for my age etc.

54and56

Taxuser1 wrote: »

seems to me you've nailed the problem ahead of any heart strap - you're killing yourself on the steep bits and not recovering for the remainder. I wonder do you cycle with others when this happens? Possibly lighter lads will hit these steep bits faster and with less strain and you're struggling to match them which puts you anaerobic and from which you're then struggling to get back to threshold

i've heart and power and both have their place but nothing wrong with perceived effort too and past form. if you know the climb and you know the steep pinch points take it into account in your spin and leave the other lads go ahead, ride your own pace. power tells you the exact average number, heart will rocket if you go over it but it seems to me you know exactly what the problem is.

Thanks Taxuser1, you've hit the nail on the head. I more or less always cycle with a group and of course the stubborn/idiot part of me never wants to be dropped on climbs

I need to think and act a lot smarter along the lines you suggest.