The Printer

blanch152

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

This has nothing to do with the government. This is a civil service issue. It's amazing how utterly ignorant so many 'all day merchants' are about the separation between the Government, Civil Service, and the Law.

It is not a bit surprising, but that is probably FG’s fault again.

Sardonicat

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Seriously? What reasons did they give for not using it?

They haven't had the training. And the IT department don't think it will work on their system. Guess it can go into storage with the voting machines.

Why is it so huge? It looks like it was developed for the computer systems of the 1950s!

Eric Cartman

Sardonicat wrote: »

They haven't had the training. And the IT department don't think it will work on their system. Guess it can go into storage with the voting machines.

Why is it so huge? It looks like it was developed for the computer systems of the 1950s!

Look up how offset printing works, it does need to be that big to achieve that throughput, but they dont need that throughout.

The IT dept think it wont work because most fieries for plate making machines are built on old tech that doesnt integrate with modern sexurity standards. Most commercial newspaper printing is still done with unsecured ftp communication and the only security layer is IP restriction or secure vpn tunnels to printers. Installing the fiery for this system would require allowing any deputies own brought device almost unsecured access to the print drop folder over the leinster house LAN. Its a nightmare.

As above, A hp indigo 12000 with secure print enabled and some workflow changes, while only 6000 prints an hour would suffice.

Thesencosts also exclude the environmental and cost impact of ventilation systems, ink storage, waste management. There was nothing in the e tender for a bunded ink store, disposal of waste, venting , drainage, electrical upgrades needed or safety systems, consulting and prodedure.

Sardonicat

Now, my next question is: what do they need it for ?

Eric Cartman

Sardonicat wrote: »

Now, my next question is: what do they need it for ?

Judging by the 97mm guillotine and a b2 guillotine its letters, pamphlets and brochures.

Just to make it clear for everyone not familiar, theyve ordered a system with a 29” maximum side print . This also only prints to paper so

Geberal letters with no names, newsletters, printed documents of a minimum volume of 5000 copies and posters B2 or below can be printed .

Election posters, bus shelters ads, billboards, small runs for rural constituencies, customised addressed mailings, manifestos, bill documents etc... are all not auitable for this.

BDI

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Judging by the 97mm guillotine and a b2 guillotine its letters, pamphlets and brochures.

Just to make it clear for everyone not familiar, theyve ordered a system with a 29” maximum side print . This also only prints to paper so

Geberal letters with no names, newsletters, printed documents of a minimum volume of 5000 copies and posters B2 or below can be printed .

Election posters, bus shelters ads, billboards, small runs for rural constituencies, customised addressed mailings, manifestos, bill documents etc... are all not auitable for this.

You know a lot about printing

Sardonicat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Judging by the 97mm guillotine and a b2 guillotine its letters, pamphlets and brochures.

Just to make it clear for everyone not familiar, theyve ordered a system with a 29” maximum side print . This also only prints to paper so

Geberal letters with no names, newsletters, printed documents of a minimum volume of 5000 copies and posters B2 or below can be printed .

Election posters, bus shelters ads, billboards, small runs for rural constituencies, customised addressed mailings, manifestos, bill documents etc... are all not auitable for this.

A MINIMUM volume of 5000 copies?

Eric Cartman

BDI wrote: »

You know a lot about printing

Over a decade involved in this consulting , id hope so ha. Not just some right wing agitator.

Eric Cartman

Sardonicat wrote: »

A MINIMUM volume of 5000 copies?

Below that the cost of making plates is too inefficient, youve to make 4x plates for every page in every colour (cyan magenta yellow and black ) for the printing machine

Sardonicat

How could this be an efficient piece of kit for the Dail? Surely ptinting needs of that nature would be outsourced to a specialised printing company?

Eric Cartman

Sardonicat wrote: »

How could this be an efficient piece of kit for the Dail? Surely ptinting needs of that nature would be outsourced to a specialised printing company?

Thats exactly it . Complete waste of money for anything less than an every constituent publication. Youd want to be having a referendum or election a week for this to make sense and that theyve had to expand the building proves that the new machine is much bigger than the one it replces.

I think this is the fantasy of a lowly photocopier supervisor having ideas of granduer about running a newspaper press translated to madness

Sardonicat

I would assume it would require more than the usual clerical skills required by clerical officers to manage? It sounds pretty specialised.

davetherave

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Judging by the 97mm guillotine and a b2 guillotine its letters, pamphlets and brochures.

Just to make it clear for everyone not familiar, theyve ordered a system with a 29” maximum side print . This also only prints to paper so

Geberal letters with no names, newsletters, printed documents of a minimum volume of 5000 copies and posters B2 or below can be printed .

Election posters, bus shelters ads, billboards, small runs for rural constituencies, customised addressed mailings, manifestos, bill documents etc... are all not auitable for this.

It would appear to get worse as you dig in to it.

There is a tender just awarded for 2 million for the printing and delivering to Leinster House of of

The documents to be printed and/or published include:
• Bills (in various stages), Explanatory and Financial Memoranda, Vellum copies of Bills, Amendments
lists and Acts,
• Dáil and Seanad Agendas (including the Dáil Questions Paper),
• Dáil and Seanad Standing Orders and Dáil Rulings of the Chair,
• Bound Volumes of Acts, Dáil and Seanad Debates and Journals,
• Electoral writs,
• Seanad Election ballot papers and electoral forms,
• Dáil and Seanad General Election Handbooks, and
• Other miscellaneous items.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/221869
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_docs.asp?PID=148691&LID=165001&AllowPrint=1
See Appendix 1 Requirements and Specifications.pdf in the documents here

230 copies of the Dail Agenda (up to 40 pages), and 95 copies of the Seanad Agenda (12-14 pages) emailed to the printers by 2230 each night when they are in session and printed, bound and delivered by 0800 the next morning.



In 2015 a contract was award for 150,000 for the supply of a High-Speed Digital Colour Printer

The Print Facility has a requirement for a High Speed Digital Colour Printer, a Litho/Digital
Business Card Cutting Machine and a Litho/Digital Card Creasing and Folding Machine. The
current estimated annual print requirements for the Service are approximately 1 million prints.
This figure consists of approximately 90% colour prints and 10% black and white prints.


In 2018 3,203 print orders were completed by the Print Facility at an estimated €1,177,000

Auguste Comte

Sardonicat wrote: »

Now, my next question is: what do they need it for ?

Printing out all the big fat expenses cheques.

Eric Cartman

davetherave wrote: »

It would appear to get worse as you dig in to it.

There is a tender just awarded for 2 million for the printing and delivering to Leinster House of of

The documents to be printed and/or published include:
• Bills (in various stages), Explanatory and Financial Memoranda, Vellum copies of Bills, Amendments
lists and Acts,
• Dáil and Seanad Agendas (including the Dáil Questions Paper),
• Dáil and Seanad Standing Orders and Dáil Rulings of the Chair,
• Bound Volumes of Acts, Dáil and Seanad Debates and Journals,
• Electoral writs,
• Seanad Election ballot papers and electoral forms,
• Dáil and Seanad General Election Handbooks, and
• Other miscellaneous items.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/221869
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_docs.asp?PID=148691&LID=165001&AllowPrint=1
See Appendix 1 Requirements and Specifications.pdf in the documents here

230 copies of the Dail Agenda (up to 40 pages), and 95 copies of the Seanad Agenda (12-14 pages) emailed to the printers by 2230 each night when they are in session and printed, bound and delivered by 0800 the next morning.



In 2015 a contract was award for 150,000 for the supply of a High-Speed Digital Colour Printer

The Print Facility has a requirement for a High Speed Digital Colour Printer, a Litho/Digital
Business Card Cutting Machine and a Litho/Digital Card Creasing and Folding Machine. The
current estimated annual print requirements for the Service are approximately 1 million prints.
This figure consists of approximately 90% colour prints and 10% black and white prints.


In 2018 3,203 print orders were completed by the Print Facility at an estimated €1,177,000

All those are too small for this new print plant. This new printer has a forklift loader at the end of it for a literal forklift to pick up the output on a pallet

Berserker5

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Someone somewhere got a handsome bonus

I used to see similar carry-on

You'd be directed to buy the printer from a particular supplier who'd give a kickback off the inflated invoice to the person directing

Or a particular contractor would be hired to supply and fit the printer and he'd kickback

Quantum Erasure

Eric Cartman wrote: »

All those are too small for this new print plant. This new printer has a forklift loader at the end of it for a literal forklift to pick up the output on a pallet

what do they need to print in such bulk, and how often would such a job come along?

SnakePlissken

I hear it's the only printer on the planet that can print a picture of Liam Neeson's penis to scale.

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Over a decade involved in this consulting , id hope so ha. Not just some right wing agitator.

How many pieces of kit like this are operating in the Irish market? I have dealt with a few printers with kit like this and they are running their machines almost 24/7 just to stay in business. As a result pricing seems very competitive. I cannot see the rationale for this purchase at all.

bobbysands81

The usual Irish Independent readers taking one major f€&k up and using it as a basis for deriding over 300,000 workers.

Eric Cartman

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How many pieces of kit like this are operating in the Irish market? I have dealt with a few printers with kit like this and they are running their machines almost 24/7 just to stay in business. As a result pricing seems very competitive. I cannot see the rationale for this purchase at all.

Thats exactly it, theres probably less than 20 presses this size on the whole island

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats exactly it, theres probably less than 20 presses this size on the whole island

I take it too that these machines, like solvent and smaller large format printers need to be kept running to maintain themselves (Ink clogging etc). They cannot lie idle for even medium lengths of time.

Who the hell did an analysis of all that, one wonders.

nkl12xtw5goz70

What will this printer be used for?

Surely, in the 2020s, there's no need to the government to be operating a €800k+ printer.

Issue all documents as PDFs — and if anyone wants a paper copy, let him or her print it out on the aforementioned €40 Currys printer.

davetherave

davetherave wrote: »

It would appear to get worse as you dig in to it.

There is a tender just awarded for 2 million for the printing and delivering to Leinster House of of

The documents to be printed and/or published include:
• Bills (in various stages), Explanatory and Financial Memoranda, Vellum copies of Bills, Amendments
lists and Acts,
• Dáil and Seanad Agendas (including the Dáil Questions Paper),
• Dáil and Seanad Standing Orders and Dáil Rulings of the Chair,
• Bound Volumes of Acts, Dáil and Seanad Debates and Journals,
• Electoral writs,
• Seanad Election ballot papers and electoral forms,
• Dáil and Seanad General Election Handbooks, and
• Other miscellaneous items.



230 copies of the Dail Agenda (up to 40 pages), and 95 copies of the Seanad Agenda (12-14 pages) emailed to the printers by 2230 each night when they are in session and printed, bound and delivered by 0800 the next morning.

In this day and age why does everything have to be printed out for everybody? Why are they not reading these documents in pdf format?

We’ve been told that there’s a climate emergency and whilst printing off all these documents would only be a minuscule impact on the environment, surely every little helps.

Are the civil servants given an allocation of money in the budget each year just like every other department? Are calendars and business cards free for whoever orders them?

Eric Cartman

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I take it too that these machines, like solvent and smaller large format printers need to be kept running to maintain themselves (Ink clogging etc). They cannot lie idle for even medium lengths of time.

Who the hell did an analysis of all that, one wonders.

This is the exact biggest issue I see. The amount of solvents theyre goingto be flushing through this thing just to keep the ink delivery system operating is insane. An environmental and maintenance disaster.

silver2020

This is typical of certain elements in the civil service.

80%-90% of civil servants do a great job and do their best, but like many countries there are huge swathes of people in the civil service that do feck all and take no responsibility.

When those incompetent move "up the scale" they bring the same incompetence to a higher level.

This is what seems to happen her.

Wrong measurements - no going back to the supplier to make a change because that would mean admitting a mistake.

And making a mistake simply can't be acknowledged - sort of like the gardai who can never ever say "sorry, we made a mistake" and that also costs the state (taxpayer) millions and millions in false arrest and malicious prosecution claims. (as per yesterday's case)

emeldc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is the exact biggest issue I see. The amount of solvents theyre goingto be flushing through this thing just to keep the ink delivery system operating is insane. An environmental and maintenance disaster.

Do you know if printers of that size are subject to VOC emission testing like drycleaners and spray painters and are they required to keep their solvent use below a certain level. Just wondering.

FrancieBrady

emeldc wrote: »

Do you know if printers of that size are subject to VOC emission testing like drycleaners and spray painters and are they required to keep their solvent use below a certain level. Just wondering.

There would be strict guidelines.

Eric Cartman can confirm, but I would imagine the most efficient way to run these machines in an environmental sense would be to have them printing flat out 24/7.

ohnonotgmail

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

In this day and age why does everything have to be printed out for everybody? Why are they not reading these documents in pdf format?

We’ve been told that there’s a climate emergency and whilst printing off all these documents would only be a minuscule impact on the environment, surely every little helps.

Are the civil servants given an allocation of money in the budget each year just like every other department? Are calendars and business cards free for whoever orders them?

Now i'm no economist but surely it is cheaper to give out 325 tablets that are set to download the agenda in pdf format every morning? The total value of that procurelement alone is €2,066,818.8. There was also only one bidder for that contract.

Eric Cartman

emeldc wrote: »

Do you know if printers of that size are subject to VOC emission testing like drycleaners and spray painters and are they required to keep their solvent use below a certain level. Just wondering.

The solvents arent part of normal operation, only maintenance so no. They also theoretically arent disposed into water / air so shouldnt present that issue.

Ink waste has strict guidelines for disposal of the waste though, its all to be recovered in drums and disposed of under licence