The Printer

emeldc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There would be strict guidelines.

Eric Cartman can confirm, but I would imagine the most efficient way to run these machines in an environmental sense would be to have them printing flat out 24/7.

In that case I can't wait for someone to ask the Green Party for a comment :pac:

emeldc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The solvents arent part of normal operation, only maintenance so no. They also theoretically arent disposed into water / air so shouldnt present that issue.

Right, so just waste disposal so, which in itself is costly.

Eric Cartman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LMU-zB8Sro

this is. a great short youtube video explaining the basics of offset printing for anyone confused as to why this machine is so large and how it prints. its basically 4 printers (one for each colour in the CMYK set)

McMurphy

BDI wrote: »

You know a lot about printing

I buy all my €50s from Eric.

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LMU-zB8Sro

this is. a great short youtube video explaining the basics of offset printing for anyone confused as to why this machine is so large and how it prints. its basically 4 printers (one for each colour in the CMYK set)

For the type of printing they are going to be doing would a digital set-up not be much more economical and efficient?

jmayo

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Michael Healy rae sent out calendars last year. Only problem was that the calendars were inaccurate in terms of how many days certain months had. Sure its only taxpayers money

Please tell me that they didn't fook the number of days in the months.
FFS.
And we are the supposed knowledge economy leaders.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Judging by the 97mm guillotine and a b2 guillotine its letters, pamphlets and brochures.

Just to make it clear for everyone not familiar, theyve ordered a system with a 29” maximum side print . This also only prints to paper so

Geberal letters with no names, newsletters, printed documents of a minimum volume of 5000 copies and posters B2 or below can be printed .

Election posters, bus shelters ads, billboards, small runs for rural constituencies, customised addressed mailings, manifestos, bill documents etc... are all not auitable for this.

So who is the company providing this printer and where was it stored?

We as taxpayers have a right to know who is getting our tax revenue.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is the exact biggest issue I see. The amount of solvents theyre goingto be flushing through this thing just to keep the ink delivery system operating is insane. An environmental and maintenance disaster.

I think you have inadvertently hit on the answer. :eek:

They are going to be printing the Big Issue from now on.

Eric Cartman

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For the type of printing they are going to be doing would a digital set-up not be much more economical and efficient?

Yes, it would. As said, even if they needed a B2 sized press, a HP indigo 12000 or similar (basically a giant inkjet with UV drying) would have sufficed and no plate waste or chemicals etc.. and self cleaning routines for ink delivery, and it would have fit in the room and been half the price .

Eric Cartman

jmayo wrote: »

Please tell me that they didn't fook the number of days in the months.
FFS.
And we are the supposed knowledge economy leaders.



So who is the company providing this printer and where was it stored?

We as taxpayers have a right to know who is getting our tax revenue.



I think you have inadvertently hit on the answer. :eek:

They are going to be printing the Big Issue from now on.

Supplied by komori uk directly, being stored in the print company that is supplying the platesetter’s warehouse.

This is the contract awards notice. Poor Karen.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/204436

There was more than one printer purchased, I think?

emeldc

I dont think anyone posted a pic yet. The fuggin size of it :eek:

Eric Cartman

emeldc wrote: »

I dont think anyone posted a pic yet. The fuggin size of it :eek:

That lictures slightly wrong as thats a larger 5 drum model but its just a little bit shorter than that

emeldc

Might have got the four drum model on a black friday deal

Strawberry Milkshake

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

This is the contract awards notice. Poor Karen.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/204436

There was more than one printer purchased, I think?

Reading the contracts award notice again. The cost of the plate making device (lot 1) was 105,000 and purchased off Graphic & Paper Merchants, Dublin.

Are they the ones who stored it for 2 grand a month?

Then the cost of the beast (lot 2) 808 thousand purchased direct from Komori.co.uk
Then the refurb works to make it fit nearly 1/4 million


Folding machine (lot 3) was 100 grand purchased from Portman graphic

Guilotines (lot 4) from Portman graphic for 63,500

Pile turner (lot 5) from Portman graphic 37,000.

Who’s got the calculator?

emeldc

€1,383,500.00 ?
Jaysus lads, that's scandalous, and it's lying idle

JP Liz V1

the_pen_turner wrote: »

What are they printing. Surely any large quantity stuff is outscourced

For that price, I would think actual money

mountain

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Yes, it would. As said, even if they needed a B2 sized press, a HP indigo 12000 or similar (basically a giant inkjet with UV drying) would have sufficed and no plate waste or chemicals etc.. and self cleaning routines for ink delivery, and it would have fit in the room and been half the price .

While the selling prices of printing presses is a matter of discussion, this link would suggest that the purchase of an HP indigo 12000 is some where in the region of 1.5m stg, not the 400k you are suggesting.
https://www.printweek.com/print-week/me-my/1168151/me-my-hp-indigo-12000

Eric Cartman

mountain wrote: »

While the selling prices of printing presses is a matter of discussion, this link would suggest that the purchase of an HP indigo 12000 is some where in the region of 1.5m stg, not the 400k you are suggesting.
https://www.printweek.com/print-week/me-my/1168151/me-my-hp-indigo-12000

Project cost (they bought 2x printers) and plus you dont need the 100k plate setting machine either.

There are a lot of solutions physically smaller and less than 800k, the indigo is merely a suggestion of something more fitting

mountain

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Project cost (they bought 2x printers) and plus you dont need the 100k plate setting machine either.

There are a lot of solutions physically smaller and less than 800k, the indigo is merely a suggestion of something more fitting

Given that you have proclaimed yourself as a consultant, perhaps you should be providing accurate info then, rather than just throwing out machine names, and then backtracking?

mountain

mountain wrote: »

Given that you have proclaimed yourself as a consultant, perhaps you should be providing accurate info then, rather than just throwing out machine names, and then backtracking?

When that printer was mentioned the convo was about dimensions.

Are you Karen from the procurement office?

mountain

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

When that printer was mentioned the convo was about dimensions.

Are you Karen from the procurement office?

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
Yes, it would. As said, even if they needed a B2 sized press, a HP indigo 12000 or similar (basically a giant inkjet with UV drying) would have sufficed and no plate waste or chemicals etc.. and self cleaning routines for ink delivery, and it would have fit in the room and been half the price

emeldc

mountain wrote: »

Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post
Yes, it would. As said, even if they needed a B2 sized press, a HP indigo 12000 or similar (basically a giant inkjet with UV drying) would have sufficed and no plate waste or chemicals etc.. and self cleaning routines for ink delivery, and it would have fit in the room and been half the price

So who knows. It might have been a bad example. Which one do you think they should have bought or are you ok with the €1.3m overall cost of the idle one they have now.

marvin80

Bob Harris wrote: »

Apparently the staff need to be upskilled to use this printer and want more money as a result. Until then they refuse to use it.

People working in the Public Sector wonder why there hated so much then.

These situations and sense of entitlement are rampant across all areas of the Public Sector.

Eric Cartman

mountain wrote: »

Given that you have proclaimed yourself as a consultant, perhaps you should be providing accurate info then, rather than just throwing out machine names, and then backtracking?

im not backtracking, you found a website which lists a project cost for 2x printers and likely the install, training etc... and then said it was more expensive, which its not, but also would have saved on building works, plate setters etc...

I don't think leinster house even need a B2 press for anything anyway. A large A3 printer would likely do 95% of what they want anyway. My consistent point in this entire thread has been that this is complete overkill, a needless waste of money and wasn't specified in any way correctly.

Wanderer78

marvin80 wrote:

These situations and sense of entitlement are rampant across all areas of the Public Sector.

An increase in pay is common enough in the private sector to, when a change in work practices occurs

Ronin247

mountain wrote: »

Given that you have proclaimed yourself as a consultant, perhaps you should be providing accurate info then, rather than just throwing out machine names, and then backtracking?

If we had any idea what the final cost will be, then you can say the info is inaccurate. We are at 1.3 million and the pay rises, increments and bonuses haven't been sorted yet.

deandean

I think a better solution for the dail would have been for them to have their own in-house Snap Printing booth. Almost no set-up cost, versatile and flexible. There are companies who have already done this and it works well.

Ronin247

Ronin247 wrote: »

If we had any idea what the final cost will be, then you can say the info is inaccurate. We are at 1.3 million and the pay rises, increments and bonuses haven't been sorted yet.

We haven’t got the price of the ink/toner/whatever this thing uses, have we?

How much paper had been ordered for this thing?

Eric Cartman

After having pm’d mountain and double checked it , the hp printer i specified would not have been half the price of this solution, however it would be much smaller and not have required the additional works that this requires.

I still stand by that a digital press could have been purchased for a far reduced cost and with no secondary works and would have been more suitable.

In my opinion this was a decision come to by allowing either older press technicians to keep their same skillset and avoid digital , or digital press technicians deciding that they wanted to play billy big balls and get extra money for running a press that is way beyond requirements.

marvin80

Wanderer78 wrote: »

An increase in pay is common enough in the private sector to, when a change in work practices occurs

No it's not.
I've never heard of anyone being up-skilled to use a printer getting a pay increase - it's ridiculous.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What's much more likely to have happened is some variation on the following:

an expression of interest to procure a new printer was submitted to the European Journal - known in the business as the OJEC. Here's the OJEC - https://www.ojec.com/. You can see all the tenders being submitted by public sector organisations across Europe.

an RFQ was issued based upon expressions of interest.

A tender was issued based upon requirements for a commercial/industrial grade printer. Here's the thing - someone might have forgotten to put in a requirement that it needed to be able to fit in through a door, or fit in a space of a specific size.

Tender gets awarded after months of tortuous back and forth, legal oversight, procurement rules etc. The vendor has built in the cost of dealing with the public service into the price.

Printer gets delivered and doesn't fit.

This has nothing to do with the government. This is a civil service issue. It's amazing how utterly ignorant so many 'all day merchants' are about the separation between the Government, Civil Service, and the Law.

You are explaining how they ordered an industrial printer at great expense and neglected to take into account the dimensions for placement.
We know all this. Explaining how they made a complete arse of something doesn't change the fact they made a complete arse of something.

It's amazing how some 'impartial observers' get so heated and rush to defend any speculation on government ineptitude at great cost to the tax payer.
Are we down to subdividing government now? 'It wasn't the state bought the printer, is was them Admin. Assistants, the blaggards' :rolleyes:
Hands up who thought Leo picked it out? ...nobody? Thought as much.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not a bit surprising, but that is probably FG’s fault again.

Doesn't matter, you've no opinion either way. As a Green why would FG's reputation concern you? Oddly enough, you're the one keeps bringing up Fine Gael. We all figured it was some civil servant mistake. TBF if FF were really in, I'd be more suspicious.