A few basic questions about renting

ECO_Mental

Hi,

I haven't rented in over 20 years but I in the process of selling my current house (closing early Jan 2010) and building a house over the next year (and half...) anyway I am going to have to rent as my family of 4 inc 2 teenagers do not want to live with granny.

One or two questions though. I am planning to build and in the middle of doing up detailed tender drawings and going to tender mid Jan. 2020 but if the tenders come back with crazy prices I might change my mind and just buy a nice 4 bed house instead.

Now if I sign a one year lease but end up to buying a house in 6 months time can I just quit the lease and what are the penalties to me. Would I just loose the deposit? or can they chase me down for the remaining 6 months rent?

Another question I have a dog....big problem apparently when renting I am finding out. Now hes a cute little Cockapoo and does no damage but if I say nothing and sneak him into a house obviously they can kick me out, but is that the biggest risk and loose my deposit again

DubCount

On the term, a 1 year lease is a 1 year commitment. If you terminate before the end of the 1 year, you are still legally committed to the term. Its a contract, so can be altered with the agreement of the LL. If you break the lease, you may not get your deposit back and could be taken to court for the total loss suffered by the LL resulting from your early termination (though I reckon that's unlikely).

The dog is a problem. You think its not going to cause damage or be any problem, but for a LL that does not know you, lots of possible tenants that don't have a dogs will be more attractive. The lease will likely state no pets allowed. You could try to offer a higher deposit to allow for any damage the dog might cause. Its not going to make the search any easier in a market that's already difficult.

Stop moaning ffs

If the dog is that small say nothing. They don’t need to know. And never will.

Browney7

DubCount wrote: »

On the term, a 1 year lease is a 1 year commitment. If you terminate before the end of the 1 year, you are still legally committed to the term. Its a contract, so can be altered with the agreement of the LL. If you break the lease, you may not get your deposit back and could be taken to court for the total loss suffered by the LL resulting from your early termination (though I reckon that's unlikely).

The dog is a problem. You think its not going to cause damage or be any problem, but for a LL that does not know you, lots of possible tenants that don't have a dogs will be more attractive. The lease will likely state no pets allowed. You could try to offer a higher deposit to allow for any damage the dog might cause. Its not going to make the search any easier in a market that's already difficult.

Or the OP finds someone to assign the lease to - if LL refuses the OP can walk away with statutory notice. In this market a LL will never go to court to enforce the lease, people are falling over themselves to get a viewing let alone a property.

terrydel

In this day and age, you are probably doing the landlord a favour leaving early, as given how much demand outstrips supply, they will find another tenant very quickly and can possibly get more than they were charging you.

I rent and have two medium-large dogs. Renting with dogs is a nightmare here.

robo

terrydel wrote: »

In this day and age, you are probably doing the landlord a favour leaving early, as given how much demand outstrips supply, they will find another tenant very quickly and can possibly get more than they were charging you.

Not necessarily true - a LL has more to do and pay for if the lease is broken, yes in some parts of the country there is high demand. But that just means when a LL puts (and pays) for an advert on Daft, they have to filter through a lot of replies or phone calls to find the tenants that they wish to rent to. I doubt that you are doing the LL a favour breaking a one year lease.

Fia11

I once broke a 1 year lease after 9 months. Informed the LL at 6 months that we were moving, lined up other tenants but the LL refused to take anyone on (as was their right). Ended up paying for the full 12 months and losing our deposit. Lesson learned, via a messy process.

cruizer101

I thought if ll refused assignment you could end the tenancy, and that is my reading of this from rtb website.

Assignment can only take place with the consent of the landlord. Where a landlord refuses an assignment of a fixed term tenancy, a tenant can serve a notice of termination on the landlord.

Fia11

cruizer101 wrote: »

I thought if ll refused assignment you could end the tenancy, and that is my reading of this from rtb website.

Assignment can only take place with the consent of the landlord. Where a landlord refuses an assignment of a fixed term tenancy, a tenant can serve a notice of termination on the landlord.

This was about ten years ago, the RTB were involved and still we didn't 'win' so to speak. Perhaps things have changed. The situation at the time was that if the LL agreed to take on the tenant we could leave at 9 months. The LL agreed, we made arrangements, but then the LL changed their mind. The replacement tenants we found were perfect, they were lovely people who lived a few doors down and wanted to rent for the 3 month period while their property was renovated.

We thought we were in the right and so went to the RTB who said we really weren't. An expensive error.

ECO_Mental

Fia11 wrote: »

I once broke a 1 year lease after 9 months. Informed the LL at 6 months that we were moving, lined up other tenants but the LL refused to take anyone on (as was their right). Ended up paying for the full 12 months and losing our deposit. Lesson learned, via a messy process.

Did they take you to the small claims court to get the remaining 3 months rent? or did they threaten to take you if you didn't pay.


just for everybodies information I'm looking to rent in Cork City, crazy like everywhere else I presume. First day and first viewing the agent told me "welcome to hell".... :P

Fia11

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Did they take you to the small claims court to get the remaining 3 months rent? or did they threaten to take you if you didn't pay.


just for everybodies information I'm looking to rent in Cork City, crazy like everywhere else I presume. First day and first viewing the agent told me "welcome to hell".... :P

I'm slightly hazy on the details as some time has passed, but I think it was a Tenancy Tribunal. The RTB had tried mediating on our behalf, but the LL wasn't having it. It was nasty. The LL had multiple solicitors present at the meeting, it was incredibly intimidating. We did not realise it would be so formal.

We just had the nice lady from the RTB with us, who was also seriously intimidated. It has taught me to be a stickler about any sort of contract, and not to expect any sort of reasonable accommodations, because this LL didn't make any.

Edgware

Why do Irish people not accept that a contract is a legally enforceable agreement?

terrydel

Edgware wrote: »

Why do Irish people not accept that a contract is a legally enforceable agreement?

Why do people insist on making sweeping generalisations they can't back up?

Gumbo

terrydel wrote: »

Why do people insist on making sweeping generalisations they can't back up?

In fairness, the OP specifically asks about breaking the lease 9 months into a 12 month contract so I think his/her comment is sufficiently backed up in this case.

sportsfan90

Fia11 wrote: »

I once broke a 1 year lease after 9 months. Informed the LL at 6 months that we were moving, lined up other tenants but the LL refused to take anyone on (as was their right). Ended up paying for the full 12 months and losing our deposit. Lesson learned, via a messy process.

I can understand you having to pay for the full 12 months rent, but what justification was given for not returning your deposit? Or was that for a separate matter?

skallywag

terrydel wrote: »

Why do people insist on making sweeping generalisations they can't back up?

I think that the statement was a completely valid one, and I cannot see where the sweeping generalization is?

I totally agree that Irish people tend to view rental contracts in a different light than they are viewed in countries which have very mature rental markets.

I have rented myself in such countries, and the situation is crystal clear. If I am bound by my contract to stay for 12 months in a rental, and I want to leave beforehand, then, unless there is a notice period defined within that 12 months, I am fully legally obliged to pay the rent for that 12 months. If I leave early, and refuse to pay the rent for the remainder of the contract, then the landlord will rightly pursue me, I will be bought to court (very easily) and be forced to pay. I will also then be hit with hefty legal fees.

If Ireland really wants to mature in the rental market space then the same attitude / enforcement needs to happen, in my book.

Samuel T. Cogley

There is, rightly, a duty to mitigate loss.

terrydel

kceire wrote: »

In fairness, the OP specifically asks about breaking the lease 9 months into a 12 month contract so I think his/her comment is sufficiently backed up in this case.

No it isn't, he said irish people, not some irish people.
The OP is (possibly) one irish person, not the entire population.

terrydel

skallywag wrote: »

I think that the statement was a completely valid one, and I cannot see where the sweeping generalization is?

I totally agree that Irish people tend to view rental contracts in a different light than they are viewed in countries which have very mature rental markets.

I have rented myself in such countries, and the situation is crystal clear. If I am bound by my contract to stay for 12 months in a rental, and I want to leave beforehand, then, unless there is a notice period defined within that 12 months, I am fully legally obliged to pay the rent for that 12 months. If I leave early, and refuse to pay the rent for the remainder of the contract, then the landlord will rightly pursue me, I will be bought to court (very easily) and be forced to pay. I will also then be hit with hefty legal fees.

If Ireland really wants to mature in the rental market space then the same attitude / enforcement needs to happen, in my book.

Unless it can be backed up with facts that show at the very least a majority of irish people don't respect or honour contracts, it's a generalisation, simple as that.

skallywag

terrydel wrote: »

Unless it can be backed up with facts that show at the very least a majority of irish people don't respect or honour contracts, it's a generalisation, simple as that.

I know several Irish people (some of which are friends of mine) who thought nothing of not honouring their rental agreement when it suited them, as they assumed (rightly so in these particular cases) that the landlord just would not be bothering pursuing them.

I have also have had the experience of living abroad, for many years, where I have never seen the same behaviour, because it was a given that if you renenged on the agreement you would be done for it in the courts, and you will most certainly lose.

I cannot give you any links etc. to back this up, I can only tell you what I have experienced myself.

terrydel

skallywag wrote: »

I know several Irish people (some of which are friends of mine) who thought nothing of not honouring their rental agreement when it suited them, as they assumed (rightly so in these particular cases) that the landlord just would not be bothering pursuing them.

I have also have had the experience of living abroad, for many years, where I have never seen the same behaviour, because it was a given that if you renenged on the agreement you would be done for it in the courts, and you will most certainly lose.

I cannot give you any links etc. to back this up, I can only tell you what I have experienced myself.

And I know many people who entirely honour and respect contracts, rental and otherwise, thru my time as a landlord, a tenant and away from that. But it would still be a generalisation for me to say all irish people are like that.

Stop moaning ffs

It’s not really a loss though is it for a landlord?
If someone leaves 9months into a lease of 12, in this market, landlord would have someone new in in no time

So why have to pay the remaining months AND lose deposit?

Seems unfair

skallywag

terrydel wrote: »

But it would still be a generalisation for me to say all irish people are like that.

Ireland is the only place that I have lived in where such carry-on can even be entertained as working out for the tenant. When I have lived in Belgium, France & Germany there is no possible way that the tenant would even possibly think about not honouring their contract. It is just a non-starter.

The attitude in Ireland is definitely different though. 'Ah sure if I leave, she will find another family to move in anyway in a week, etc.'

I really do no think that Irish people, in general, look on rental contracts as something legally binding. As in the way they may look at other legal contracts which they enter into.

skallywag

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s not really a loss though is it for a landlord?
If someone leaves 9months into a lease of 12, in this market, landlord would have someone new in in no time

This post really backs up my own previous post. The whole 'in this market' vibe.

The legal agreement between tenant and landlord is just not taken seriously.

Stop moaning ffs

skallywag wrote: »

This post really backs up my own previous post. The whole 'in this market' vibe.

The legal agreement between tenant and landlord is just not taken seriously.

We have a very different outlook culturally to things like property and tenancy. Colonial hangover maybe. But it isn’t that big a deal.
I’m renting and had a room let on a licensee basis with a guy and month by month basis.
6 months into it he was all apologies and moving in with his fella and that wasn’t a problem at all. Was sorry to see him go but it worked for him and me and subsequent housemates.
Just had to put an ad on daft and screen a few people to find a new housemate. A few hours hassle but that’s all.

I don’t buy it being a huge trauma and loss or the landlord. It really isn’t. It’s a money grab. Especially keeping the deposit even though the total has been paid. Greed
And yes, especially in this market.

terrydel

skallywag wrote: »

Ireland is the only place that I have lived in where such carry-on can even be entertained as working out for the tenant. When I have lived in Belgium, France & Germany there is no possible way that the tenant would even possibly think about not honouring their contract. It is just a non-starter.

The attitude in Ireland is definitely different though. 'Ah sure if I leave, she will find another family to move in anyway in a week, etc.'

I really do no think that Irish people, in general, look on rental contracts as something legally binding. As in the way they may look at other legal contracts which they enter into.

Have you been a landlord or tenant here? I have been both, the former around 12 years and the latter longer, and my experience does not tally with that generalisation at all.

terrydel

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

We have a very different outlook culturally to things like property and tenancy. Colonial hangover maybe. But it isn’t that big a deal.
I’m renting and had a room let on a licensee basis with a guy and month by month basis.
6 months into it he was all apologies and moving in with his fella and that wasn’t a problem at all. Was sorry to see him go but it worked for him and me and subsequent housemates.
Just had to put an ad on daft and screen a few people to find a new housemate. A few hours hassle but that’s all.

I don’t buy it being a huge trauma and loss or the landlord. It really isn’t. It’s a money grab. Especially keeping the deposit even though the total has been paid. Greed
And yes, especially in this market.

The prevailing attitude here is always 'poor landlord', 'tenants are all out to take advantage' etc.

skallywag

terrydel wrote: »

Have you been a landlord or tenant here? I have been both, the former around 12 years and the latter longer, and my experience does not tally with that generalisation at all.

Both myself as well, in Ireland.

I am not saying that the majority of Irish folk are like that, the majority are decent. But you come across people who think it's fine to behave like that, and many of my own friends also think along the same lines.

While I have lived in mainland Europe, on the other hand, it was unheard of for folk to carry the same mentality.

terrydel

skallywag wrote: »

Both myself as well, in Ireland.

I am not saying that the majority of Irish folk are like that, the majority are decent. But you come across people who think it's fine to behave like that, and many of my own friends also think along the same lines.

While I have lived in mainland Europe, on the other hand, it was unheard of for folk to carry the same mentality.

Exactly, that's my point, to say 'irish people' is to paint all with the same brush, it's a generalisation and you've just said yourself that the majority are not like that.
There are good and bad, my experience is that if anything the vast majority are good and a small percentage are not.

fash

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

We have a very different outlook culturally to things like property and tenancy. Colonial hangover maybe. But it isn’t that big a deal.
I’m renting and had a room let on a licensee basis with a guy and month by month basis.
6 months into it he was all apologies and moving in with his fella and that wasn’t a problem at all. Was sorry to see him go but it worked for him and me and subsequent housemates.
Just had to put an ad on daft and screen a few people to find a new housemate. A few hours hassle but that’s all.

I don’t buy it being a huge trauma and loss or the landlord. It really isn’t. It’s a money grab. Especially keeping the deposit even though the total has been paid. Greed
And yes, especially in this market.

Yes, I don't buy the poster above who said they had a perfectly reasonable tenant lined up - who the landlord refused. The tenant has a legal right to assign or sublet- and that is written into the RTA- and I would be quite surprised if the RTB was unaware of the RTA.
Furthermore, I cannot believe that the RTB forced said poster to pay 3 months rent (i.e. the remaining 3 of a 12 month lease) for renting the place. The landlord has a legal duty to mitigate his losses. Once the tenant left, the landlord can rent again within (say) 3 weeks. In reality the landlord will/should have factored in doing so at month 12 - and the loss is pulling this forward to month 9. So max loss is say 3 weeks rent (or arguably less) plus daft fees.
Arguably though it is said cost divided by 4 since in fact landlord should have factored in spending that at month 12 anyway. Had the landlord to do it at month 0, then the full amount is due, but at it gets closer to 12 months, the loss becomes less- dropping to 0 loss at 12 months. 3 months left/12= 1/4th of this.

Edgware

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s not really a loss though is it for a landlord?
If someone leaves 9months into a lease of 12, in this market, landlord would have someone new in in no time

So why have to pay the remaining months AND lose deposit?

Seems unfair

Life's a bitch.