How to determine the age of a Bios/firmware

54and56

Hi all,

Having a frustrating time with Lenovo support.

I have been asked to install a driver package to solve a USB C related problem but in the link (https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/gb/en/solutions/ht508988) for my T580 it says to use Firmware N27TH06W or higher.

Two things are bugging me about this:-

1. The Vantage app from Lenovo uses the term Bios not Firmware but their support staff and articles use the term Firmware. Why cause confusion by not using a single term?

2. How are you supposed to tell whether the current Bios installed (in my case N27ET37W 1.23) is higher or lower than N27TH06W? My thinking is that Bios starting with N27ET would be older than Bios starting with N27TH but having run an update in Vantage and checked the Lenovo support site it looks like the N27TH Bios was released in Sept whereas the N27ET Bios is the current version.

Why make it so hard to identify and age versions of Bios/Firmware???

ED E

https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/gb/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t580-type-20l9-20la/downloads/DS502394

54and56

Hi ED E, thanks for the info. I had actually found that page earlier but was confused when the support instruction was to ensure my Bios was higher than N27TH06W but N27TH06W isn't on the list of released Bios versions for the T580.

Why oh why do they have to make it so hard for me

L1011

N27ET37W includes N27TH22W which is definitely higher than N27TH06W. Those third/second last digits are what matters here.

54and56

L1011 wrote: »

N27ET37W includes N27TH22W which is definitely higher than N27TH06W. Those third/second last digits are what matters here.

Thanks L1011, can I ask how I or anyone else is supposed to verify or know that N27TH22W is included in N27ET37W?

Lenovo's instruction is to make sure the firmware is higher than N27TH22W but despite searching I can't find any reference to N27TH22W being a prior firmware version for the T580.

54and56

L1011 wrote: »

N27ET37W includes N27TH22W which is definitely higher than N27TH06W. Those third/second last digits are what matters here.

Ah, is it possible you're mistaken? I see from https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/gb/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t580-type-20l9-20la/downloads/DS502394 that N27ET37W includes N27HT22W which is similar but not the same as N27TH06W and the update instruction is clear that the firmware needs to be higher than N27TH06W.

Johnboy1951

1. The Vantage app from Lenovo uses the term Bios not Firmware but their support staff and articles use the term Firmware. Why cause confusion by not using a single term?

The BIOS is firmware and has been traditionally known by BIOS.

The newer firmware is not BIOS (Basic Input/Output System ) but a more advanced firmware called UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface).

Like all things modern, there is a tendency to dumb down, so the term BIOS has been retained by quite a number of people. The correct term is of course firmware and I would expect that to be used in any technical reference whereas BIOS might continue to be used in user communications.

A combination of both is also often used (EFI BIOS) - which confuses the issue even more IMO.

Hopefully that goes some way to answering the question.

54and56

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The BIOS is firmware and has been traditionally known by BIOS.

The newer firmware is not BIOS (Basic Input/Output System ) but a more advanced firmware called UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface).

Like all things modern, there is a tendency to dumb down, so the term BIOS has been retained by quite a number of people. The correct term is of course firmware and I would expect that to be used in any technical reference whereas BIOS might continue to be used in user communications.

A combination of both is also often used (EFI BIOS) - which confuses the issue even more IMO.

Hopefully that goes some way to answering the question.

Thanks John, I can understand and would have no particular issue with old terms being retained and used as generic descriptors but what I can't understand our accept is a leading company like Lenovo being inconsistent by using the term Firmware in some instances and Bios in others. It's just sloppy and very poor communication which inevitably leads to user confusion and errors.

Johnboy1951

I went to this page
https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/gb/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t580-type-20l9-20la/downloads/driver-list/component?name=BIOS%2FUEFI
because your original link did not work.

From there I see this as the link to download the BIOS/UEFI firmware file
https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/gb/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t580-type-20l9-20la/downloads/DS502394

Is that not correct and the most recent available?

L1011

54and56 wrote: »

Ah, is it possible you're mistaken? I see from https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/gb/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/thinkpad-t-series-laptops/thinkpad-t580-type-20l9-20la/downloads/DS502394 that N27ET37W includes N27HT22W which is similar but not the same as N27TH06W and the update instruction is clear that the firmware needs to be higher than N27TH06W.

I'd be more confident the page that has it as HT is mistaken and has a typo. There's no reference to HT anywhere else. It is possible they've got hideously clashing names but I'd doubt it


Anyway - the updater is going to check that it isn't doing a downgrade. If it's already at the same or higher version it won't run

54and56

Thanks guys, you've been a lot more helpful than Lenovo!!