New, unregistered Irish-bought car from 1976 - where do I start?

con747

wmahcm wrote: »

Agreed, it would be a real shame if this car ended up in some rich guy's glass case.

From what the Op says he intends keeping it and hopefully getting it running in honour of his dad.

kadman

Of the two the early variant could be more of a money pit to restore.

Given the scarcity of body panels to replace any rusted out panels, of which there will probaly be a few.

Mechanical parts are plentiful enough if you know where to go, and reasonably priced. Given that it was a non runner
when it was put into the shed , its definitely seized now. With flat four engines pistons laying down on the barrels,
its not long before they form a rust attachment to them,this sort of thing occurs,

[IMG][/img]

And parts are available to fix this, but engine building is labour intensive and expensive.

Body panels on the fastback variants are basically unobtainable, or extremely expensive for the later variants, and moreso for the early ones.All the fastbacks and squarebacks and notchback variants have the same design flaws that allow rust to destroy them in similar areas.

I'd be very surprised if this variant is untouched by the dreaded rust, but if it is that would be great. But there are rust free examples from south africa that sell in the UK for less than 12k. And you definitely would not restore a rusty squareback to its former glory for less than that.

Rare cars can often end up costing more than their value to restore which is often the case with classics.

Does your skilset allow you to do any of the work on either car?

kadman

Here is a link to an early fastback variant of your model type,
except yours is a squareback.

IT was a one owner car from Doneraile in Cork. Bought by a VW specialist for
1500 euro. It was then sold on to this chap who placed it on adverts for sale.

It did not sell at the asking. I saw it and it was in very good shape and needed little resto work
for someone with the skilset.

https://www.adverts.ie/vintage-classic/1965-volkswagen-variant-type-3-fastback-original-irish-car/2137542

alfa beta

kadman wrote: »

Does your skilset allow you to do any of the work on either car?

I'm afraid not. My amateur mechanic talents amount to doing an oil and filter change on my own car - beyond that I haven't a clue.

Any work to be done on either car (or the others in that shed) will require me paying someone else. So the key thing for me is to make absolutely sure I find the right people for the job.

Both lovely cars, with very personal histories.

alfa beta

alfa beta wrote: »

I'm afraid not. My amateur mechanic talents amount to doing an oil and filter change on my own car - beyond that I haven't a clue.

Any work to be done on either car (or the others in that shed) will require me paying someone else. So the key thing for me is to make absolutely sure I find the right people for the job.

Okay, don't tease

alfa beta

Deleted User wrote: »

Both lovely cars, with very personal histories.

Great to see the appreciation people have for them here :-)
There's a bunch of stuff in that shed that he kept - the peugeot and the VW obviously - plus and old Merecedes (190, mid sixties) a Morris Eight, an MG midget, a Ford 3000 tractor an 1980's Daihatsu van (you know the ones so small you don't really get out of them, you take them off!!) and a couple of motorbikes in bits and pieces (an Adler and a BMW of some sort)


I'll try and clear things out a bit (The place is almost inaccessible with junk) and post photographs here as I unearth what I can. Don't have as much time as I would like though, so it'll be a slow process. So bear with me

Excellent. If you need any help let us know. Not me :pac: but there'd be piston heads for which your garage would be like Mecca.

kadman

When you get sorted . Maybe contact a Peugeot owners club to get your car started, they
might do it for you as a club project. You will be getting the benefit of old school mechanics,
that would have the knowledge you need.

Tea coffee anda few beer tokens go a long way in that setting:D;)

wmahcm

alfa beta wrote: »

Any work to be done on either car (or the others in that shed) will require me paying someone else. So the key thing for me is to make absolutely sure I find the right people for the job.

Absolutely, good car restorations (even for cars in good condition) don't come cheap in terms of time or money. There's plenty of expensive bodge merchants out there as well.

saabsaab

kadman wrote: »

Main issues is what has moisture done to all the components of a stored car.

Rubber tubing and seal replacement, in all the components that may have deteriration,
nclude a huge number of components.

You have all the brake components like, master cylinder, wheel cylinders. Possibly
clutch hydraulic components, maybe power steering components too.

These alone are labour intensive to check and replace. And thats just for starters.

The engine itself in a laid up car, may not now be what it was when it was parked in there.
Unless it was consistently started over a period of time, it may need more than a battery.

No oil splashing around an engine means bits and pieces may now well be coated in a fine layer of rust,
which has tendency to cause parts to stick to each other, like rings to pistons, and pistons to liners.
Siezing an engine, means an engine stripdown.

I know what you're saying but it depends. it won't take much to see fi the engine turns or not. If it does good news. The garage may be heated or adjoining a house or other warm building driving out damp. The blankets and the cover may have been enough to keep it fine. brakes would be the main thing to check change fluids etc.

alfa beta

saabsaab wrote: »

I know what you're saying but it depends. it won't take much to see fi the engine turns or not. If it does good news. The garage may be heated or adjoining a house or other warm building driving out damp. The blankets and the cover may have been enough to keep it fine. brakes would be the main thing to check change fluids etc.

Hi Saab, unfortunately the shed is not the driest, nor is it heated or adjoining a house. + we're right by the sea, so the air is often that bit more humid here than further inland.


I think kadman's concerns may well be valid. Just have to wait and see. But I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that you're closer to the mark than he is

saabsaab

Hope for the best.


I brought over a low mileage old car, off the road and under the blanket in a garage for many years. Got it very cheap.



Rubbers were perfect just a bit of rust in one spot where water collects at a mudguard.



After a good service I used it for several years as a daily driver, only let me down twice when I ran out of petrol as the fuel gauge wasn't working. A new sender cured that.
All the best.

kadman

saabsaab wrote: »

I know what you're saying but it depends. it won't take much to see fi the engine turns or not. If it does good news. The garage may be heated or adjoining a house or other warm building driving out damp. The blankets and the cover may have been enough to keep it fine. brakes would be the main thing to check change fluids etc.

You are correct, it wont take anymore than 2 minutes to see if the engine turns.

But turning or not, the engine will need stripping to inspect it properly. Whether the current owner does it, or the next owner does it. Someone has to, and like i said its labour intensive. Plus the fact that the history says it was a non runner going into the shed.

My money is on a seized engine. And there are a few tips to unseize it along with brute force. But a turning engine in this situation means very little.

But you are correct it wont take long to see if it can turn. But thats all you will find out without stripping it.

alfa beta

kadman wrote: »

Plus the fact that the history says it was a non runner going into the shed.

The 504 was running perfectly before being stored - it was the VW that may have been a non-runner. (i'm not sure about that though.)

kadman

If you are very lucky you might end up with this. It was an engine of mine that was taken
from a car years ago, and dry stored. After many years slumber, I spent a day or two
checking the engine settings. Prepped it the tried for a start.

Happy days, i got this result.

I then stripped it for a rebuild. Although it started and sounded ok, the piston rings were seized into the pistons, and the pistons had marked all the barrells from laying on them un oiled. So the barrels had to be crosshatch honed, new rings, new seals, and case savers added. All labour intensive but necessary

kadman

alfa beta wrote: »

The 504 was running perfectly before being stored - it was the VW that may have been a non-runner. (i'm not sure about that though.)

I'd prefer to see the VW running.........who cares about the other old yoke:P:P:P

11wingnut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToZn6kU_0pU

saabsaab

You could try using a boroscope to check the innards and see if there is any corrosion? Save a stripdown. 'Mick's Garage' online have them or maybe a local garage could so it?

curtism

Would thos car be for sale if so I'd be interested in making a serious offer

alfa beta

curtism wrote: »

Would thos car be for sale if so I'd be interested in making a serious offer

nope - fraid not - but if I change my mind sometime (unlikely) I'll fire a pm at you

kadman

If you get organised with access to the vw, and you want a hand from to try to squeeze life into
the vw , I'll throw my name into the hat along with another vw nut and anyone else here ,
to try to help you out, just fire a pm at me, tim

kadman

This is the engine in the previous youtube vid, that is now fitted into my fastback,

[IMG][/img]

[IMG][/img]

David09

You mention that it's a diesel. Around that time Peugeot and ford shared their diesel engines. I think it was for the 504 and the Granada/sierra?
A few years ago I was donated a pile of old stock parts from a ford dealers that was deemed old and unsaleable. Almost all of it was sold off and used up on my own cars. However, there's a lot of old filters and service parts still there in original wrapping that might just suit that Peugeot, provided that it's the same shared engine. Drop me a pm if you want them. I'd be happy to donate them for what's going to be an awesome one of a kind project!

beauf

alfa beta wrote: »

...It's now 2019 so the car is 43 years old, yet to all intents and purposes, it's actually brand new - unregistered as far as I can see and with just a couple of hundred miles on the clock. I'd love to get it up and running but need a few pointers as to where I should start with regard to the tax/registration side of things as I've no knowledge about classics at all....

Did he ever post any video or photos of it?

Ryath

.

beauf wrote: »

Did he ever post any video or photos of it?

alfa beta wrote: »

Hi again


I uncovered the car to the extent that I could earlier this evening - it's jammed up against a wall at one side, a boat to the front and a rusty old volkswagen variant to the other side so unfortunately its very innaccessible at the moment.


I did take a pic of the back - the paintwork and chrome look like they need no more than a good polish. (Unfortunately there's no light in the shed and the flash on the phone is not very complimentary)



I also managed to open the rear door just enough to squeeze my hand in and take a rather random pic of the interior (again the flash is not at all flattering). The leather looks like it needs a good clean but nothing more. (The door opened and shut very smoothly, so I guess that's a good sign as regards rubber seals etc!)


Anyway, here are the pics I managed. If I get more time on my hands and even the possibility of moving the car out from its current position I'll try and post something better.

ratracer

Is that 'rusty old VW variant' a Karmann Ghia?:eek:

Is it repairable or completely lost to time? That would be a much more interesting car than the peugout IMO.

beauf

Cheers I couldn't find it. So cool.

kadman

ratracer wrote: »

Is that 'rusty old VW variant' a Karmann Ghia?:eek:

Is it repairable or completely lost to time? That would be a much more interesting car than the peugout IMO.

Its not a Karmann ghia, its a Vw squareback early type.

funkey_monkey

alfa_beta - worthy recognition for your thread

alfa beta

David09 wrote: »

You mention that it's a diesel. Around that time Peugeot and ford shared their diesel engines. I think it was for the 504 and the Granada/sierra?
A few years ago I was donated a pile of old stock parts from a ford dealers that was deemed old and unsaleable. Almost all of it was sold off and used up on my own cars. However, there's a lot of old filters and service parts still there in original wrapping that might just suit that Peugeot, provided that it's the same shared engine. Drop me a pm if you want them. I'd be happy to donate them for what's going to be an awesome one of a kind project!

Thanks - that's very generous - I'll pm you in due course - Probably a few months down the line, but please do hang on to the stuff for me if you think it might be of use.

Magilla Gorilla

Might be a long shot, but back in the day motor dealers "booked" a reg. no. from the motor tax office. You simply rang up, gave the car's basic details plus the buyer's name and address, and you were allocated the next number in the register.


If you know the dealer's name (is it on the sticker on the back window?) and are sure of the year of sale, it wouldn't be a big job for a willing person in the motor tax office to search the register for you to check if it was ever given a number...


Note this is not the same as it being ever taxed, but might be useful.

Hotblack Desiato

Surely given the VIN, Shannon can check if it was ever registered.

Magilla Gorilla

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Surely given the VIN, Shannon can check if it was ever registered.

If it was never taxed, Shannon will not be aware of its existence. My point is it may still have been allocated a number which the OP might want to check out.

forgottenhills

ratracer wrote: »

Is that 'rusty old VW variant' a Karmann Ghia?:eek:

Is it repairable or completely lost to time? That would be a much more interesting car than the peugout IMO.

I don't know. The Peugout 504 was a beautiful machine for its era (1970s) in terms of the cars that could be commonly seen on Irish roads at that time. My uncle had one and I remember as a child getting a lift from him in his car in the late 70's and I thought it was the bees knees compared to the old Fiats, Fords, Vauxhalls and VWs that were on the go at the time. Although I believe that his car was a petrol and would have been a lot smoother. I particularly remember the headlights being a lot more powerful than the cars I was used to at the time.

I got to drive a Peugeot 505, its successor, around for a day in the 1980s but it was a diesel and nothing special to drive. They disappeared pretty fast, I think they were rust prone.

carchaeologist

forgottenhills wrote: »

I don't know. The Peugout 504 was a beautiful machine for its era (1970s) in terms of the cars that could be commonly seen on Irish roads at that time. My uncle had one and I remember as a child getting a lift from him in his car in the late 70's and I thought it was the bees knees compared to the old Fiats, Fords, Vauxhalls and VWs that were on the go at the time. Although I believe that his car was a petrol and would have been a lot smoother. I particularly remember the headlights being a lot more powerful than the cars I was used to at the time.

I got to drive a Peugeot 505, its successor, around for a day in the 1980s but it was a diesel and nothing special to drive. They disappeared pretty fast, I think they were rust prone.

Indeed, my one, a 1979 model, despite it being a hearse conversion from what was an estate has only 17.000 miles on it and the comfort of the seats and the quietness of the drive is amazing. And indeed as mentioned the headlights are extremely good for a car of its era. It's way ahead of the contemporary Cortina or similar sized Japanese car for comfort and build quality.

wandererz

Firstly decide if you want to keep the car or not.

If you want to keep it, then contact a specialist company like these guys.

http://www.majormotors.co.uk/peugeot-engine-specialist-supplier-repairs-and-engine-fitting/

Decide if you want to ship them just the engine or the entire car.

Call them first to discuss options.
That will give you an indication of costs.

Go from there.

kaizersoze

wandererz wrote: »

Firstly decide if you want to keep the car or not.

If you want to keep it, then contact a specialist company like these guys.

http://www.majormotors.co.uk/peugeot-engine-specialist-supplier-repairs-and-engine-fitting/

Decide if you want to ship them just the engine or the entire car.

Call them first to discuss options.
That will give you an indication of costs.

Go from there.

Sounds cheap......:pac:

kadman

Are they just a supplier and fitter. I dont see anywhere on the site where they offer engine reconditioning,
I see where they can supply reconditioned units alright.


Just copped it now.

Sounds good...:)

swarlb

wandererz wrote: »

Firstly decide if you want to keep the car or not.

If you want to keep it, then contact a specialist company like these guys.

http://www.majormotors.co.uk/peugeot-engine-specialist-supplier-repairs-and-engine-fitting/

Decide if you want to ship them just the engine or the entire car.

Call them first to discuss options.
That will give you an indication of costs.

Go from there.

Funny isn't it... how we jump on the opportunity to praise 'specialists' from abroad.
According to Major Motors website, they have over 30 years experience with Peugeot engines (I would at a guess estimate that the vast majority of these engines are diesel units from the past 10/15 years).
Yet Gowan Motors (and I know some of the staff personally) have been trading for over 50 years.
A poster here jested that they probably wouldn't have a clue what a 504 was....
So... why on earth, would you assume that Major Motors would know any better...
There are plenty of people in Ireland, dealerships or otherwise that would be more than capable of 'fixing' a Peugeot 504.

swarlb

swarlb wrote: »

..........
There are plenty of people in Ireland, dealerships or otherwise that would be more than capable of 'fixing' a Peugeot 504.

Indeed.
It's a basic diesel engine, a competent mechanic (not an oil change merchant) would have no issue working on it.

kadman

Plenty of good old school mechanics in Ireland.
Home grown solution would be better for many reasons.

Classic Peugeot owners would love this. Its what we petrolheads live for:D:D

Try contacting these maybe,
https://www.facebook.com/205wicklowirelab/

Remember , transporting,shipping ect would be adding major cost that you probably dont need.

ozmo

Car99 wrote: »

If your going to sell it , dont do anything to it , dont even start to clean it.

Same if you are not going to drive it

Its worth more, even to just keep, being 100% original - be better to just protect it properly - but getting it running, cracking open the engine, new seals, new filters, battery, plugs, and whatever else - and then putting it back in the shed to go bad again is just ruining this unique find.

alfa beta

More 40-year old, new, unregistered vehicles uncovered here in Alfa Beta land today!!


Not a car this time, but two MZ motorcycles a TS 150 and TS 125, both from 1980. Brand new and unused (but seized up over time - a fact you discover very quickly when you try to push the things!!)


As far as I know MZ were East German and these bikes are two-stroke. I've found an owner's club on google where I will try and get more background and hopefully establish a value for the bikes.


I've no intention of keeping these but neither have I much of an idea as to their worth. If anyone here can help with knowledge / advice that would be fab. And if you can't, well, here are some pics anyway!!


(Posting here coz I don't see a Classic Bikes sub forum on boards - and coz I got such a lovely response from everyone regarding the original post about the peugeot ( --- which btw is wrapped up again for the time being due to too much else to do in the near future!!)


Cheers,
AB.

Gadgetman496

alfa beta wrote: »

More 40-year old, new, unregistered vehicles uncovered here in Alfa Beta land today!!


Not a car this time, but two MZ motorcycles a TS 150 and TS 125, both from 1980. Brand new and unused (but seized up over time - a fact you discover very quickly when you try to push the things!!)


As far as I know MZ were East German and these bikes are two-stroke. I've found an owner's club on google where I will try and get more background and hopefully establish a value for the bikes.


I've no intention of keeping these but neither have I much of an idea as to their worth. If anyone here can help with knowledge / advice that would be fab. And if you can't, well, here are some pics anyway!!


(Posting here coz I don't see a Classic Bikes sub forum on boards - and coz I got such a lovely response from everyone regarding the original post about the peugeot ( --- which btw is wrapped up again for the time being due to too much else to do in the near future!!)


Cheers,
AB.

Were these your Dad's too?

alfa beta

Yeah - but unlike the Peugeot he wouldn't have bought these for his personal use - they'd have been bought to sell on.



He never sold them though.



He was a hoarder at heart and the words 'stock turnover' weren't really that popular in his vocabulary

FrancieBrady

alfa beta wrote: »

More 40-year old, new, unregistered vehicles uncovered here in Alfa Beta land today!!


Not a car this time, but two MZ motorcycles a TS 150 and TS 125, both from 1980. Brand new and unused (but seized up over time - a fact you discover very quickly when you try to push the things!!)


As far as I know MZ were East German and these bikes are two-stroke. I've found an owner's club on google where I will try and get more background and hopefully establish a value for the bikes.


I've no intention of keeping these but neither have I much of an idea as to their worth. If anyone here can help with knowledge / advice that would be fab. And if you can't, well, here are some pics anyway!!


(Posting here coz I don't see a Classic Bikes sub forum on boards - and coz I got such a lovely response from everyone regarding the original post about the peugeot ( --- which btw is wrapped up again for the time being due to too much else to do in the near future!!)


Cheers,
AB.

What's in the boxes???

alfa beta

Fine Bone China Tea and Dinner Sets!!!

Very soon to appear on Ebay, Donedeal, Adverts, FB marketolace and wherever else I can flog the things ..... (all proceeds going to the charities the old man was involved in though)

Dardania

alfa beta wrote: »

Fine Bone China Tea and Dinner Sets!!!

Very soon to appear on Ebay, Donedeal, Adverts, FB marketolace and wherever else I can flog the things ..... (all proceeds going to the charities the old man was involved in though)

Lovely tribute to do that

CoBo55

I thought all proceeds from anything sold belong to the estate.