Right Wing Grifters

Lefty Bicek

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh, yeah L, he most certainly was. As a Greek philosopher, observer and historian, endlessly quoted and doted upon by both later Greek and Roman thinkers, he couldn't be any more classical.

Yes he is within Classical times, as I explicitly said.*

But he cannot of himself, as one individual within an ~800 year timeframe, be used to prove the point that the classical period had no concept of 'east and west'.

Which is what JT was attempting to do.

* Sorry, I note now that your post is before the response of mine (#451) that I am referring to. It took me a while to collate my references. And a cuppa.

Blind Eagle

I think what the last few pages show, our friend Kwame in particular, is that any eejit can make it in the Humanities.

Wibbs

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Am I correct in remembering you as the person who referred to diversity as an infection?

Nope. That's what you wanted to read. So you could have an oul self righteous freak out. What I actually said was: I'm also definitely talking about the BS that is "diversity" and "multiculturalism". We've already been infected with it here on the back of freeloaders who showed up during the "boom" and ivory tower idealogues in the Dail and other vested interests. That's the political idea and the BS idea in my opinion that is "diversity" and "multiculturalism". Spot the obvious and important difference.

If I'm ever talking to them I'll be sure to bring it up.

Avoid the point as if your life depends on it.

Someone said that very thing in the thread.

Oh I'm also my brother's keeper? So when it suits anything someone else might say is something in your "debate" arsenal when dealing with other points and posters? OK. I'm sure there are other straws you can clutch to on this hobby horse of yours.

That's a new one. Just trying to pick through it. So in your mind I'm the racist for saying all immigrants from those countries aren't scammers? It's a novel approach to trying to muddy the waters, I'll give you that.

Nope again. Unlike you I don't jump to shouting "RACIST" as a default position when my arguments fail.

No, it seems you are genuinely ignorant to what people like me think. The opposite of racist isn't assuming everyone of a particular group is good, it's not assuming anything based solely on their belonging to that group.

*facepalm*

Junkyard Tom

Wibbs wrote: »

Tell me, what large region of the world and set of cultures first outlawed slavery?

So what? We still have a serious criminal record when it comes to slavery. Just because we find God in jail doesn't mean we get absolved of our sins.

If were mostly using Asian or African writing, clothing, technology, architecture, art, science and philosophies, political or otherwise they'd have a valid point.

Ghosts don't use those things.

The, Charlemagnes, Napoleons, Hitlers and many others, even the Christian church have been trying to recreate it.

Indeed, people with fascistic tendencies love to tell the fools that listen to them that something has been lost like how 'leftists have destroyed Western Civilisation'. Perfect closing of the loop there if I do say so myself.

You mention the Large Hadron Collider. OK. The beginnings of science show up in the Middle East first and holds fast for a long time, the Chinese throw their oar in at times, but cultural baggage tends to limit them. The start of what we would call modern science, mathematics and physics kicks off in Greece, the Romans have a good stab at it, then the Islamic world takes over for sadly too short a time(BTW much of it inspired by Greek thought they had more of at their local disposal). Then the printing press kicks off in Europe, after it was invented in Asia and passed through the Islamic world with barely a flicker and European science and thought streaks ahead at a breakneck pace. While the Large Hadron Collider has many parents over the millennia the vast majority of them are European.

For sure.

As I've pointed out above the "fable" as he terms it is around a lot longer than a hundred years and obviously, in your face, how could you miss it so longer.

My point stands, Western Civilisation is a largely meaningless term. Leftists destroying Western Civilisation is just out-and-out nonsense.

Wibbs

Blind Eagle wrote: »

"The concept of a "West" dates back to the Roman Empire, where there was a cultural divide between the Greek East and Latin West, a divide that later continued in Medieval Europe between the Catholic Latin Church west and the "Greek" Eastern Orthodox east."

They and the Greeks also had a clear concept of North and South. I'd not say that they "invented" the notion, as many civilisations before them and around them were inveterate stargazers for all sorts of religious and practical reasons. They most certainly tracked the sun in the heavens in its passage from east to west and alluded to that as particular points and places and concepts. They also looked to the stars(like the north star) for navigation and general getting about. The concept of a "west" or "east" wouldn't have troubled many if it was mentioned in passing by a Roman on his or her wider travels beyond the empire.

Blind Eagle

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

My point stands, Western Civilisation is a largely meaningless term. Leftists destroying Western Civilisation is just out-and-out nonsense.

It's not a meaningless term. At least you seem to now accept its not some modern idea.

Lefty Bicek

Blind Eagle wrote: »

I think what the last few pages show, our friend Kwame in particular, is that any eejit can make it in the Humanities.

I burst out laughing.

JT is the same character who admonished me thus, a week ago, on this very thread...

...try spending some time listening to some lectures/talks from actual educators, academics, and intellectuals.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111877561&postcount=269


Hilarious.

Wibbs

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So what? We still have a serious criminal record when it comes to slavery. Just because we find God in jail doesn't mean we get absolved of our sins.

Oh we're in gaol now eh? And there's me thinking that was partly to do with atoning. Seems we must keep wearing the sackcloth and ashes folks.

Ghosts don't use those things.

Another one avoiding the point like their life depends on it.

Indeed, people with fascistic tendencies love to tell the fools that listen to them that something has been lost like how 'leftists have destroyed Western Civilisation'. Perfect closing of the loop there if I do say so myself.

And yet again. While attempting to celebrate some self indulgent victory.

For sure.

Annnnd we have the hat trick folks. Your blinkers are well made and you are consistent, I'll give you that.

My point stands, Western Civilisation is a largely meaningless term.

And yet I outlined the various meanings of it and with more historical accuracy than your wikipedia phone a friend.

Leftists destroying Western Civilisation is just out-and-out nonsense.

I'd agree and I never said it.

markodaly

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said I couldn't give a fúck about Larry.

Should we not have prisons either?

Like you very much advocate an open border, so should we not have prisions for violent offenders? Same principle.

I think you are just being a try-hard on this forum as there is no way you would publicly state these opinions.

Junkyard Tom

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

He was FROM the classical era. He was not THE classical era.

This is incredibly dishonest, nit-picky, and time-wasting. How can one human be an era? You're taking words and terms that I've written knowing precisely what was mean't.

Wibbs knew what I meant but didn't get bitchy about it. See below:

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh, yeah L, he most certainly was. As a Greek philosopher, observer and historian, endlessly quoted and doted upon by both later Greek and Roman thinkers, he couldn't be any more classical.

I'm responding to about three people here while you're poring over what I've written looking for little mistakes in the text. Congratulations, now go back to cheerleaders corner.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

And confess to a little schadenfreude in the recent humiliation of Naomi Klein, the 'Gloria Steinem Chair in Media, Culture, and Feminist Studies' at Rutgers.

Come to think of it, what recent humiliation of 'Naomi Klien' did you mean here?

Blind Eagle

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I burst out laughing.

JT is the same character who admonished me thus, a week ago, on this very thread...



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111877561&postcount=269


Hilarious.

His claiming I should be modded out of the discussion for pointing out his arguing from authority doesn't look too good either.

But sure look, I've been a boards lurker for years. The idea is discuss and try to learn from said discussion which I'm sure will eventually be the case here.

Woodsie1

Seems a tough job bull****ting people,JT is struggling trying to bull**** just 3:eek:

Blind Eagle

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is incredibly dishonest, nit-picky, and time-wasting. How can one human be an era? You're taking words and terms that I've written knowing precisely what was mean't.

I'm responding to about three people here while you're poring over what I've written looking for little mistakes in the text. Congratulations, now go back to cheerleaders corner.

Maybe he was. But you don't help yourself with your passive aggressive posting style to be fair.

boring accountant

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Really? Any big names in the US MSM who advocate nationalisation of industry, advocate the creation of a US national health service, advocate breaking up the mega-corporations, advocate taxes on wealth, advocate free third level education, advocate a green new deal?

Sounds like you're moving the goal posts here. This thread is clearly about the grifters on the right/left capitalising on hot topic social issues, not economic issues.

It's not like Alex Jones' podcast is all about reducing the size of government, cutting corporation tax rates and slashing welfare.

Lefty Bicek

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is incredibly dishonest,... How can one human be an era?

Indeed.

Therefore you had no business attempting to validate a statement you made about an era, by a pathetic illustration of a snapshot in time, within that era.This is simply the bread and butter of serious historical study - 'change over time'.

And after all, in your own words...

It's difficult to even have a discussion with people when they attribute meaning to terms willy-nilly.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111938438&postcount=423

So, nothing dishonest was intended. Just holding you to your own standard.

You're taking words and terms that I've written knowing precisely what was mean't.

But, QED, you didn't know what was meant.

I'm responding to about three people here...

You're not equipped for that.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just a point of order here. The idea that there is a continuous stream of 'Western Civilisation' starting in antiquity with the Greeks/Romans and ending up with the Large Hadron Collider is hilarious.

Seriously, where does this shite come from? '

There is a well established link that Ancient Greece lead to 'modern' Western Civilzation.

It has gone back centuries. Read up on anything Hellenic.

Junkyard Tom

Blind Eagle wrote: »

His claiming I should be modded out of the discussion

I think it might benefit the discussion if the satellite commentators and cheerleaders were forced to make their own points and attempt to back them up with some credible sources, maybe approach it as discussion to be learned from rather than a dick-waving competition.

I had a quick look at the forums and I think maybe here would be a good place for it.

SaintLeibowitz

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Indeed.

Therefore you had no business attempting to validate a statement you made about an era, by a pathetic illustration of a snapshot in time, within that era.This is simply the bread and butter of serious historical study - 'change over time'.

And after all, in your own words...



https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111938438&postcount=423

So, nothing dishonest was intended. Just holding you to your own standard.



But, QED, you didn't know what was meant.



You're not equipped for that.

I think you have some nerve acting like an authority on the subject of Ancient Greek civilisation when you are clearly winging it.

Junkyard Tom

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

But, QED, you didn't know what was meant.

Oh I knew what I meant and so did Wibbs and so did you. Maybe you should go back to the YouTube comments section with your peers.

You're not equipped for that.

Cool. What did you mean here?

And confess to a little schadenfreude in the recent humiliation of Naomi Klein, the 'Gloria Steinem Chair in Media, Culture, and Feminist Studies' at Rutgers.

Can you be specific about this humiliation?

Blind Eagle

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I think it might benefit the discussion if the satellite commentators and cheerleaders were forced to make their own points and attempt to back them up with some credible sources, maybe approach it as discussion to be learned from rather than a dick-waving competition.

I had a quick look at the forums and I think maybe here would be a good place for it.

But you didn't back up your own point with credible sources. That was the point of the "if Kwame says it it must be true" comment. This obviously went over your head. You just said that he thinks Western civilization is a fable and didn't even bother to give his reasons, let alone yours, which as I pointed out is a stone cold example of arguing from authority. And then you suggest that others need to improve the content of their posts. Look at yourself before you criticise others.

Lefty Bicek

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Come to think of it, what recent humiliation of 'Naomi Klien' did you mean here?

The cancelling of her book by a US publisher, on account of a catastrophic misreading of the sources.

It would be borderline ahistorical and anachronistic of me to point out that the drum she wanted to beat, was homophobia in Victorian Britain.

Right on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-50153743

The interview is worth listening to, for the toe-curl factor alone.

markodaly

Jaelyn Uptight Speedway wrote: »

You do realize that Herodotus was one of the first to define the notion of "the West" as distinct from "the East"? The concept that you're trying to argue is "relatively new"?

This is why the Greek wars with the Persians were to pivitiol for western civilisation and imo human civilisation.

If the Greeks had been defeated at Salamis, Marathon and Plataea we would be living in a very different world

Immortalised of course in the battle of Thermopylae.

If the Greek city states had been truely concquered so much of western philosophy, art, archtecture, and of course its most famous export, democracy would have been lost.

Lefty Bicek

SaintLeibowitz wrote: »

I think you have some nerve acting like an authority on the subject of Ancient Greek civilisation when you are clearly winging it.

Sez you...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111938984&postcount=426

Blind Eagle

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

The cancelling of her book by a US publisher, on account of a catastrophic misreading of the sources.

It would be borderline ahistorical and anachronistic of me to point out that the drum she wanted to beat, was homophobia in Victorian Britain.

Right on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-50153743

The interview is worth listening to, for the toe-curl factor alone.

That's Naomi Wolf pal. Not Naomi Klein.

Junkyard Tom

Blind Eagle wrote: »

But you didn't back up your own point with credible sources. That was the point of the "if Kwame says it it must be true" comment.

Why is he not a credible source? Also, I asked people what they meant by 'Western Civilisation' and got nothing in return of substance. That's pretty hard to work with.

I used Kwame Anthony Appiah as one source that would cast doubt on the idea of a cogent concept of Western Civilisation.

Lefty Bicek

Blind Eagle wrote: »

That's Naomi Wolf pal. Not Naomi Klein.

Indeed it is. Thanks for correction, and apologies to Klein.

markodaly

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

My point stands, Western Civilisation is a largely meaningless term.

So what would you call it instead?

Is there such a thing also as Chinese civilisation?
Islamic civilisation?
Inca civilization?
Egyption civilisation?

Junkyard Tom

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

The cancelling of her book by a US publisher, on account of a catastrophic misreading of the sources.

That was Naomi Wolfe, genius. Some scholar you are.

See what I did there? I knew who you meant. I knew who you meant when I read that first but I didn't act the asshole about it like you, because it's nit-picky and a waste of time.

Be better.

SaintLeibowitz

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Sez you...

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111938984&postcount=426

Your not making much sense.

Lefty Bicek

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Oh I knew what I meant and so did Wibbs and so did you.

But, Diocletian. You were wrong. End of.