The Farming Protest @ Dublin City Centre

Boggles

Calhoun wrote: »

That is the threat they have come out with, sorry to get in the way of the lefty boner of justice.

"Lefty boner justice" aside or whatever the fúck that is. :rolleyes:

A fact is neither left or right.

So you were dealing primarily in dribbling hyperbole, correct?

Doctors room ghost

It will run out of p1ss and steam after a few more days and just like the beef protests will accomplish nothing.
Can’t even get cattle into the factory now after the protest without jumping through hoops.
Above in Dublin asleep in a 60 grand new holland and complaining they have no money.ffs.
Half them boys trying too hard to outdo the neighbors is all.
A 60 grand tractor to shove in a few bales to 30 sucklers over the year and paying contractors to make bales and put out slurry from their grant built sheds.
A fcukin jokeshop from start to finish.
A child would see that as a business farming is a joke.

Calhoun

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Farming certainly has a very strong voice here, it's very well organised with powerful groups such as the ifa, but its interesting to watch this one, some have obviously had enough, and this is understandable. We say regularly, that if businesses fail, we just let them fail, but our reality is, many are in fact bailed out, and have been many times, and by tax payers, the market rarely works as it says it does, and this is also a global phenomenon

So it's just acceptable then? We bail out every single person and group ? We also allow it get to a stage any group who wants a dig out just need role up into the capital and threaten to bring it to a halt.

Calhoun

Boggles wrote: »

"Lefty boner justice" aside or whatever the fúck that is. :rolleyes:

A fact is neither left or right.

So you were dealing primarily in dribbling hyperbole, correct?

You know what it is more of the same from you .

Boggles

Calhoun wrote: »

You know what it is more of the same from you .

Facts?

I apologize, I know you are not a fan of them.

Calhoun

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

It will run out of p1ss and steam after a few more days and just like the beef protests will accomplish nothing.
Can’t even get cattle into the factory now after the protest without jumping through hoops.
Above in Dublin asleep in a 60 grand new holland and complaining they have no money.ffs.
Half them boys trying too hard to outdo the neighbors is all.
A 60 grand tractor to shove in a few bales to 30 sucklers over the year and paying contractors to make bales and put out slurry from their grant built sheds.
A fcukin jokeshop from start to finish.
A child would see that as a business farming is a joke.

If anything we know that allot of them are bachelor's so the problem should take care of itself in a few years.

elperello

Calhoun wrote: »

If anything we know that allot of them are bachelor's so the problem should take care of itself in a few years.

Where there is a Will there are relatives.
Lot's of nephews knocking around not to mention the distaff side.

sbsquarepants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's fine if we can do that with all businesses that are not viable without subsidy...like Dublin Bus and Rail and Dart.

Public services, not even remotely comparable.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What about nurses and doctors, massively subsidised by us all...sack all of them and let people look after themselves?

Whereas the HSE is undoubtedly badly run, overstaffed and a black hole for public money, they are not so much subsidised as trained and employed by the state, and more importantly they are providing a vital service without which the country would literally turn to shít.
Are you seriously comparing growing carrots with being a doctor?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where do you propose the cut off is?

I propose the cut of should be when gobshítes insist their unviable business be propped up rather than go do something a little more productive for a living. Farming is not the backbone of this country anymore, accept that and move the fúck on. You can't just automatically do for a living what your father and grandfather done, no matter how much you would like to - very few people can. The country has moved on, farming is not the be all and end all anymore, it's a bit part player in the overall scheme of things now.

I had to laugh at the gombeen spud muncher on the radio last night "Well if Dublin people want meat for Christmas, they better start doing what we want"

If every single farmer in Ireland shut up shop tomorrow, it would not make one iota of difference to me or to my diet. You just do not have us over a barrel like you seem to be imagining.

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Public services, not even remotely comparable.




Whereas the HSE is undoubtedly badly run, overstaffed and a black hole for public money, they are not so much subsidised as trained and employed by the state, and more importantly they are providing a vital service without which the country would literally turn to shít.
Are you seriously comparing growing carrots with being a doctor?



I propose the cut of should be when gobshítes insist their unviable business be propped up rather than go do something a little more productive for a living. Farming is not the backbone of this country anymore, accept that and move the fúck on. You can't just automatically do for a living what your father and grandfather done, no matter how much you would like to - very few people can. The country has moved on, farming is not the be all and end all anymore, it's a bit part player in the overall scheme of things now.

I had to laugh at the gombeen spud muncher on the radio last night "Well if Dublin people want meat for Christmas, they better start doing what we want"

If every single farmer in Ireland shut up shop tomorrow, it would not make one iota of difference to me or to my diet. You just do not have us over a barrel like you seem to be imagining.

The wanton cry of the selfish...ME ME ME ME.

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Where might these chemicals come from in rural areas.

Farmers perhaps?

That's why regulations are there - to stop certain guardians of the country side just dumping whatever the fúck they felt like into the local river.

Of course chemicals are used in modern agriculture but dumping in a river is definitely not good practice.

You appear to want farmers to be businesslike but don't want their business to
be compensated for protecting your water.

BarryD2

Calhoun wrote: »

So it's just acceptable then? We bail out every single person and group ? We also allow it get to a stage any group who wants a dig out just need role up into the capital and threaten to bring it to a halt.

Nah, it doesn't work like that at all. If you're part of a larger industry or group, then you can expect to be 'bailed out' and subsidised etc. But businesses that work in more niche areas get little help and nobody cares if they get thrown to the wolves.

sbsquarepants

elperello wrote: »

Of course chemicals are used in modern agriculture but dumping in a river is definitely not good practice.

You appear to want farmers to be businesslike but don't want their business to
be compensated for protecting your water.

Why the hell should a business be compensated for just not poisoning the place? They should be legally obliged to not damage the environment and liable for the costs of any clean up if they do.

I have to pay to dispose of my waste, nobody pays me not to throw it in the river!

sbsquarepants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The wanton cry of the selfish...ME ME ME ME.

Irony is just not your thing is it!:D

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why the hell should a business be compensated for just not poisoning the place? They should be legally obliged to not damage the environment and liable for the costs of any clean up if they do.

I have to pay to dispose of my waste, nobody pays me not to throw it in the river!

Can we levy city dwellers for poisoning in the same way???

You have been disposing and dispose of your waste in the 'countryside' btw

Paddigol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The wanton cry of the selfish...ME ME ME ME.

The irony in that post is delicious.

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why the hell should a business be compensated for just not poisoning the place? They should be legally obliged to not damage the environment and liable for the costs of any clean up if they do.

I have to pay to dispose of my waste, nobody pays me not to throw it in the river!

Of course farmers are already obliged to not damage the environment and are open to prosecution if they do.

However if you want them to go to extra expense and farm less intensively to protect a city water supply it makes sense to compensate them.

I presume you are talking about your household waste. Farmers have bins too and don't throw their waste into the river.

Paddigol

elperello wrote: »

Of course chemicals are used in modern agriculture but dumping in a river is definitely not good practice.

You appear to want farmers to be businesslike but don't want their business to
be compensated for protecting your water.

Not protecting it. Just not polluting it thanks very much. The sense of entitlement is absolutely staggering.

FrancieBrady

Paddigol wrote: »

The irony in that post is delicious.

The difference my friend, if you are having difficulty, is that we have a poster here who wants to dictate policy on the basis of what 'he/she eats' (have you ever heard anything so profoundly stupid?)and a community who want a fair price for their labour. Not an exaggerated price...just a living wage for their efforts.

Paddigol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can we levy city dwellers for poisoning in the same way???

You have been disposing and dispose of your waste in the 'countryside' btw

Fact based evidence or stfu. Absolute nonsense again.

FrancieBrady

elperello wrote: »

Of course farmers are already obliged to not damage the environment and are open to prosecution if they do.

However if you want them to go to extra expense and farm less intensively to protect a city water supply it makes sense to compensate them.

I presume you are talking about your household waste. Farmers have bins too and don't throw their waste into the river.

Equating some bad farming with farming in general, were generations have protected and enhanced their holdings/land is just a transparent and desperate tactic, elperello.

elperello

Paddigol wrote: »

Not protecting it. Just not polluting it thanks very much. The sense of entitlement is absolutely staggering.

See reply above.
No sense of entitlement.
If you get something of value ie. clean water and it involves cost to someone they have a right to be compensated.

FrancieBrady

Paddigol wrote: »

Fact based evidence or stfu. Absolute nonsense again.

Where do you think most of it goes? I include the sea and waterways as part of the rural infrastructure you depend on btw.

Doctors room ghost

The lad on the news that was roaring he’d stay 8 weeks if that’s what it takes.
Guaranteed if you were within earshot of that lad he’d be the day long telling lads how busy he was,but yet he can sit above in a tractor in Dublin scratching his arse for 8 weeks.
A fcukin waffler of the highest order.
Creed got them napping in their 60 grand tractors at 7 in the morning the clowns and they were surprised.fcukin laughable.

The old saying rings true.
If you get the reputation for rising early in the morning,you can stay in bed all day.

Paddigol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The difference my friend, if you are having difficulty, is that we have a poster here who wants to dictate policy on the basis of what 'he/she eats' (have you ever heard anything so profoundly stupid?)and a community who want a fair price for their labour. Not an exaggerated price...just a living wage for their efforts.

Whatever - I think you may have missed the point in his post entirely, nothing about dictating policy simply pointing out market economic realities - but glad to see you accept that a small sector of farmers trying to hold the country over a barrel to leverage more money for themselves is selfish.

whisky_galore

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Farming certainly has a very strong voice here, it's very well organised with powerful groups such as the ifa, but its interesting to watch this one, some have obviously had enough, and this is understandable. We say regularly, that if businesses fail, we just let them fail, but our reality is, many are in fact bailed out, and have been many times, and by tax payers, the market rarely works as it says it does, and this is also a global phenomenon

I'd say it "had" rather than it has.
Far fewer involved in it than say the 70s or 80s.
I'd say farmers will be forced to consolidate and buy smaller farmers out. They'll be more like ranches than family farms. If all the consumer wants is cheap stuff, that's the only way it can go.

FrancieBrady

Paddigol wrote: »

Whatever - I think you may have missed the point in his post entirely, nothing about dictating policy simply pointing out market economic realities - but glad to see you accept that a small sector of farmers trying to hold the country over a barrel to leverage more money for themselves is selfish.

What 'market economic realities'?

The poster made a bizarre claim based on his/her own individual needs or wants.

Wanderer78

whisky_galore wrote: »

I'd say it "had" rather than it has.
Far fewer involved in it than say the 70s or 80s.
I'd say farmers will be forced to consolidate and buy smaller farmers out. They'll be more like ranches than family farms. If all the consumer wants is cheap stuff, that's the only way it can go.

you could very well be right, as our current market direction is very much monopolisation, and apparently, wealth trickles down from there, but this wont happen without a fight, and probably not just from the farmers

sbsquarepants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The difference my friend, if you are having difficulty, is that we have a poster here who wants to dictate policy on the basis of what 'he/she eats' (have you ever heard anything so profoundly stupid?)and a community who want a fair price for their labour. Not an exaggerated price...just a living wage for their efforts.

I'm not dictating anything - i'm stating that farmers importance to this country is hugely overstated. It has been getting steadily less important for decades but you just can't seem to move on - some shower of gobshíte would be grinches in wellies are not going to lay siege to Dublin and ruin Christmas dinner!

Cop yourselves the fúck on boys!

elperello wrote: »

See reply above.
No sense of entitlement.
If you get something of value ie. clean water and it involves cost to someone they have a right to be compensated.

Entirely wrong.

No one is asking you to clean the water. We're just saying you can't dirty it in the first place. You do not deserve money just for not polluting. That is as entitled a statement as you'll hear anywhere - you have no right to poison the water ffs!

Antares35

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So the minister has been given a clear time table

If not sorted by dec 15th then more blockades

Interesting to see what happens

People in Dublin will just get in all they need before that then sit at home laughing at the tractor parade.

Wanderer78

Antares35 wrote: »

People in Dublin will just get in all they need before that then sit at home laughing at the tractor parade.

so they wont have to travel to work again, or move kids around etc?

elperello

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Equating some bad farming with farming in general, were generations have protected and enhanced their holdings/land is just a transparent and desperate tactic, elperello.

The tractors day out in Dublin appears to have highlighted the growing urban/rural split which is a pity.
A lot of misunderstanding out there.

Thelonious Monk

elperello wrote: »

The tractors day out in Dublin appears to have highlighted the growing urban/rural split which is a pity.
A lot of misunderstanding out there.

Not really fair to say a rural split, if there's a split maybe it's between cattle farmers and normal people? I have friends who live in small towns in Laois and Carlow, that have as much in common with these farmers as I do, a Dublin city dweller. I would be all for paying more for Irish veg if it encouraged them to grow more, but this dirty beef industry doesn't need encouragement, we should be moving away from it.

whisky_galore

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Not really fair to say a rural split, if there's a split maybe it's between cattle farmers and normal people? I have friends who live in small towns in Laois and Carlow, that have as much in common with these farmers as I do, a Dublin city dweller. I would be all for paying more for Irish veg if it encouraged them to grow more, but this dirty beef industry doesn't need encouragement, we should be moving away from it.

Veg isn't suited to growing everywhere in the country.

Thelonious Monk

whisky_galore wrote: »

Veg isn't suited to growing everywhere in the country.

Yes so we should give those parts back to nature so us city folks can have some nice forests and countryside to visit at the weekends.

sbsquarepants

whisky_galore wrote: »

Veg isn't suited to growing everywhere in the country.

It's not like the only 2 ways to make a living are growing vegetables and rearing cattle though!

If you can't grow veg and there's no money in beef........do something else!

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm not dictating anything - i'm stating that farmers importance to this country is hugely overstated. It has been getting steadily less important for decades but you just can't seem to move on - some shower of gobshíte would be grinches in wellies are not going to lay siege to Dublin and ruin Christmas dinner!

Cop yourselves the fúck on boys!



!

Says, he/she is 'not dictating' and then before he/she even finishes the sentence...does some 'dictating'.

Akabusi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The wanton cry of the selfish...ME ME ME ME.

That's your way of saying you are wrong, bit strange really.

FrancieBrady

Akabusi wrote: »

That's your way of saying you are wrong, bit strange really.

Farmers and activists for rural Ireland are no more selfish than any other group who stand up for themselves.

Dictating policy based on what you 'eat' or your specific needs is 'selfish' and redolent of the 'ME ME ME' generation.

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Entirely wrong.

No one is asking you to clean the water. We're just saying you can't dirty it in the first place. You do not deserve money just for not polluting. That is as entitled a statement as you'll hear anywhere - you have no right to poison the water ffs!

All sectors contribute to water pollution, Farmers, individual houses, town and city sewage plants, industry and business, road run-off etc. etc.

As we are concentrating on farming here it's only fair to point out that farmers are subject to regulations. Some comply, some do not just the same as the other sectors listed.

My point is that if a city decides to pipe water from a rural area it makes sense to compensate the farmers. If they are expected to reduce production ie. reduce the commercial viability of their holding to help the city who should bear that cost?

It's not as simple as money for not polluting. We are all "poisoning the water" to one degree or another.

Akabusi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Farmers and activists for rural Ireland are no more selfish than any other group who stand up for themselves.

Dictating policy based on what you 'eat' or your specific needs is 'selfish' and redolent of the 'ME ME ME' generation.

You were comparing farmers being subsidised to the HSE being subsidised and then taken to task over what a ridiculous comparison that was. Do you you accept that you jumped the shark here a bit or will you continue to deflect and come up with other crazy notions?

sbsquarepants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Says, he/she is 'not dictating' and then before he/she even finishes the sentence...does some 'dictating'.

He by the way.

I think Francie that you're only really interested in a big ol farmers circle jerk (and sure why not, each to their own;) You just don't want to see reality, you want to be told that you're right.

If my job didn't pay my bills, i'd have to change job, do something a bit more lucrative, or just spend less - why should farmers be treated any differently?

Lets assume there is no money in farming like this shower in their 80 grand tractors insist.

If you're in farming for the money, you've chosen badly, get out of it and do something else. It's tough, but shít happens.

If you're in for the love of it, that's your choice, so now shut up whining, no one is obliged to fund your hobby. There are plenty of people who choose low paying jobs because it's what they love doing and fair play to them, but it's not up top the rest of us to make up their wages for them.

There's fúck all sympathy for you here Francie I'm afraid!

Strumms

Boggles wrote: »

Your Helen Lovejoy hyperbole is quite funny.

Or maybe I just get a little outraged when I see a bunch of cowardly fûckwits assaulting a Garda in such a brave fashion that they push him to the ground just when he turns his back to walk away..

Maybe I get a little fûcking outraged when I see a bunch of knuckle draggers complain about a perceived injustice by blocking the city coming up to Christmas and potentially endangering people with hundreds of tonnes of heavy duty farm equipment, which they drove ‘AT’ people....

You can go on with your cute ‘hyperbolic’ remarks about whatever cartoon character you like, yourself included but any time you feel like adding to the debate.... actually don’t bother you are playing a blinder so far...

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

He by the way.

I think Francie that you're only really interested in a big ol farmers circle jerk (and sure why not, each to their own;) You just don't want to see reality, you want to be told that you're right.

If my job didn't pay my bills, i'd have to change job, do something a bit more lucrative, or just spend less - why should farmers be treated any differently?

Lets assume there is no money in farming like this shower in their 80 grand tractors insist.

If you're in farming for the money, you've chosen badly, get out of it and do something else. It's tough, but shít happens.

If you're in for the love of it, that's your choice, so now shut up whining, no one is obliged to fund your hobby. There are plenty of people who choose low paying jobs because it's what they love doing and fair play to them, but it's not up top the rest of us to make up their wages for them.

There's fúck all sympathy for you here Francie I'm afraid!

Simplistic analysis that we are coming to expect from you.

I wonder how long you would do your job for if you were being underpaid for it because your 'bosses' had gotten themselves into a position where they could dictate how much they would pay you. That is what is happening in farming. Would you assume a right to protest about it or just roll over and take it, would you look to your government to protect you from exploitation and unfair practice?

Boggles

Strumms wrote: »

Or maybe I just get a little outraged when I see a bunch of cowardly fûckwits assaulting a Garda in such a brave fashion that they push him to the ground just when he turns his back to walk away..

Maybe I get a little fûcking outraged when I see a bunch of knuckle draggers complain about a perceived injustice by blocking the city coming up to Christmas and potentially endangering people with hundreds of tonnes of heavy duty farm equipment, which they drove ‘AT’ people....

You can go on with your cute ‘hyperbolic’ remarks about whatever cartoon character you like, yourself included but any time you feel like adding to the debate.... actually don’t bother you are playing a blinder so far...

Could you pin point in the video where?

Garda in such a brave fashion that they push him to the ground

Please.

sbsquarepants

elperello wrote: »

My point is that if a city decides to pipe water from a rural area it makes sense to compensate the farmers. If they are expected to reduce production ie. reduce the commercial viability of their holding to help the city who should bear that cost?

Nonsense.

You are not entitled to poison the environment whether you can make money from doing so or not. This is an absolutely crazy argument you're making!

elperello wrote: »

It's not as simple as money for not polluting. We are all "poisoning the water" to one degree or another.

We don't all feel we're deserving of a handout for keeping it down a bit though.

FrancieBrady

Akabusi wrote: »

You were comparing farmers being subsidised to the HSE being subsidised and then taken to task over what a ridiculous comparison that was. Do you you accept that you jumped the shark here a bit or will you continue to deflect and come up with other crazy notions?

The reality of modern society is that we pay subsidy. We attempt to raise all boats through various social contracts emanating from central government or the wider union of the EU.

We arrive at these because we accept that in order for one section of society to benefit we need to subsidise another.

There is a certain truth in the maxim, 'if I didn't smoke, a loaf of bread would cost €20'

I.E. we take in taxes and redistribute them so that all citizens can enjoy a certain standard of living.

To isolate yourself as some do here, and pretend that you are not living in a symbiotic relationship with everybody else on the island is a delusion of the selfish.
You can call that 'crazy' all you wish.

sbsquarepants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Simplistic analysis that we are coming to expect from you.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wonder how long you would do your job for if you were being underpaid for it because your 'bosses' had gotten themselves into a position where they could dictate how much they would pay you.

Not very long Francie....that's been the very point i have been repeatedly making to you. Do you get it this time?

I would not do my job for very long under those conditions, i would change jobs Francie, that would be the most sensible course of action......please tell me you get it this time!

Also, my boss does dictate how much he'll pay me, that's how it works in the real world! My power is that i'm not his property, if he doesn't pay enough i can leave, go do something else for living.

Akabusi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The reality of modern society is that we pay subsidy. We attempt to raise all boats through various social contracts emanating from central government or the wider union of the EU.

We arrive at these because we accept that in order for one section of society to benefit we need to subsidise another.

There is a certain truth in the maxim, 'if I didn't smoke, a loaf of bread would cost €20'

I.E. we take in taxes and redistribute them so that all citizens can enjoy a certain standard of living.

To isolate yourself as some do here, and pretend that you are not living in a symbiotic relationship with everybody else on the island is a delusion of the selfish.
You can call that 'crazy' all you wish.

I didn't ask you about any realities or symbiotic relationships but hey this is what you do - deflect and waffle nonsense.

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Not very long Francie....that's been the very point i have been repeatedly making to you. Do you get it this time?

I would not do my job for very long under those conditions, i would change jobs Francie, that would be the most sensible course of action......please tell me you get it this time!

Also, my boss does dictate how much he'll pay me, that's how it works in the real world!

Again with the 'ME's'

The norm is that most people don't - they protest and they protest for a very long time until they get what they want or some acceptable version of what they want.
Farmers are doing the exact same thing that other workers, city and rural, have a right to do.

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Nonsense.

You are not entitled to poison the environment whether you can make money from doing so or not. This is an absolutely crazy argument you're making!



We don't all feel we're deserving of a handout for keeping it down a bit though.

It's not nonsense.

As I pointed out we are all, you and I and everybody else poisoning the environment to some degree.
Businesses and urban wastewater plants are licensed by the EPA to pollute.
If you work for such a business or discharge to a wastewater plant at home you are directly benefiting from pollution.

In watershed agreements used in New York there is no handout. It is a mutually beneficial contract.