The Farming Protest @ Dublin City Centre

FrancieBrady

Akabusi wrote: »

I didn't ask you about any realities or symbiotic relationships but hey this is what you do - deflect and waffle nonsense.

You asked 'had I jumped the shark in comparing farming with the HSE' and i answered you.

If you cannot deal with that answer...that is your problem tbh.

sbsquarepants

elperello wrote: »

It's not nonsense.

As I pointed out we are all, you and I and everybody else poisoning the environment to some degree.
Businesses and urban wastewater plants are licensed by the EPA to pollute.
If you work for such a business or discharge to a wastewater plant at home you are directly benefiting from pollution.

In watershed agreements used in New York there is no handout. It is a mutually beneficial contract.

It is nonsense. I'll give you an analogy

I want to open a factory, so I go to the local council or whatever and tell them of my plans, I'm going to build a factory to make widgets. Widget making results in all manner of dangerous chemical waste.

"What are you going to do with the waste?" they ask.
"Well i was thinking of just throwing it on the ground outside"
"You can't do that!"
"Well i'm sorry, but if you want me to not do that you'll need to pay me - after all it is kind of in your own best interests for me to not poison you"

What do you think they'll say next?

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It is nonsense. I'll give you an analogy

I want to open a factory, so I go to the local council or whatever and tell them of my plans, I'm going to build a factory to make widgets. Widget making results in all manner of dangerous chemical waste.

"What are you going to do with the waste?" they ask.
"Well i was thinking of just throwing it on the ground outside"
"You can't do that!"
"Well i'm sorry, but if you want me to not do that you'll need to pay me - after all it is kind of in your own best interests for me to not poison you"

What do you think they'll say next?

I'm not going to call your argument nonsense but it is a false analogy.

The water cycle is a natural system that is keeping us all alive.

That's where our water comes from. It's a natural process you can't make it.

All you can do is take the best care possible of what nature gives us.

It's an expensive business getting water to a city tap and addressing land use in catchment areas can be cost effective.

jmayo

Balf wrote: »

And Irish farmers mostly produce just a few products (dairy and livestock, especially beef), mostly for export. Dairy and beef account for two-thirds of total production.

The food we - and they - actually buy and eat is frequently imported.

Well you see we raise animals because we are pretty damn good at growing grass, you know the stuff ruminants eat.
So we predominantly rear cattle (both for meat and for dairy), sheep on some of the less fertile ground.
We are pretty good at raising horses as well but that is on much better land and is really so that lads in towns and cities have something to bet on in the bookies.
We also rear pigs in some areas.
Pigs were historically reared by farming families to be slaughtered for their own use, but that has been phased out with years.

Now fruit and veg farming is very dependent on soil quality and most of the country would not be suitable.

Sorry but we just aren't capable of growing the exotic shyte that some of you urban veggies and vegan like.
And if you can't understand why we then have to import that stuff, well I give up.

And yes we do import lots of stuff we could possibly grow, but maybe you should ask the huge retail chains why they refuse to pay a decent price to Irish growers so that they could stay in business.
Hell maybe if you were willing to pay a bit more for your carrots, onions, spuds then a grower in Ireland could compete with those in South Africa, Chile, etc.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Must say they had some fine looking tractors up for the day. Never knew you could buy a tractor in lime green either, some classy looking machines.

Funny you say classy, the lime green are Claas.
Basically a German owned French produced former Renault.

Evelyn Lemon Silkworm wrote: »

The French are showing the Irish farmers how it's done.

That was nothing, ever see them dumping the manure outside the state buildings and in the town squares ?

The Dubs here would have a sh** fit if the Irish farmers started adopting French tactics.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am not on the side of the farmer too dumb not to sucked into far right agendas like a lamb to the slaughter.

I am sympathetic to farmers standing up to big food companies etc.

Btw farmers today are not poor.

Ehh I think it was you that quoted 52,000 for average dairy farmer ?

Do you know the average working hours of your average dairy farmer ?

The thing is cows need to be milked early in the morning and in the evening come what may.

And even if they are not milking they need to be fed and watered.
They don't stop on Friday evening or for bank holidays.
And when you and all the PAYE workers are off on Christmas Day and St Stephens Day those same cows need to be fed, and maybe milked.

Did you factor that into the rich salary ?

And have you ever heard of calving ?
Funny cows can calve at any time of the day or night.
They don't stop at 5pm and start again at 9am.

Also most dairy farms have loans attached for sheds, milking parlours, milking machines, feeders, etc.
Dairy farming can be very stressful due to long hours, debts, dependent on weather not being too bad for too long so that cows can be out on grass and not chomping through limited fodder for too long.

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It is nonsense. I'll give you an analogy

I want to open a factory, so I go to the local council or whatever and tell them of my plans, I'm going to build a factory to make widgets. Widget making results in all manner of dangerous chemical waste.

"What are you going to do with the waste?" they ask.
"Well i was thinking of just throwing it on the ground outside"
"You can't do that!"
"Well i'm sorry, but if you want me to not do that you'll need to pay me - after all it is kind of in your own best interests for me to not poison you"

What do you think they'll say next?

Intel, which I was told on a factory tour, 'washes the water it uses 7 times before putting it back into the watercourse' (what the f88k they are doing with it to require that, is another question) has received almost 90m euro in IDA grant/subsidy to build and develop it's plant. Presumably part of that went towards water treatment facilities.

sbsquarepants

elperello wrote: »

All you can do is take the best care possible of what nature gives us.

It's an expensive business getting water to a city tap and addressing land use in catchment areas can be cost effective.

This is exactly my point!

You try to take best care of what nature gives us, by doing things like not allowing people to dump poison into rivers, even if they really really really want to do so.
You don't need to pay them to not do it, you just need to tell them.

You are not allowed to poison the water.
But, but, but.
No buts, you are just not allowed, end of!

Akabusi

jmayo wrote: »

Well you see we raise animals because we are pretty damn good at growing grass, you know the stuff ruminants eat.
So we predominantly rear cattle (both for meat and for dairy), sheep on some of the less fertile ground.

For a country so good a growing grass we sure do import a lot of animal feed.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/where-are-animal-feed-imports-coming-from/

Now fruit and veg farming is very dependent on soil quality and most of the country would not be suitable.

Correct, but it can be done, take The Netherlands who grow fruit and veg intensively indoors, yes there would be big capital investment but I think it would be a wiser choice for some (not all) of these farmers to move into.

And yes we do import lots of stuff we could possibly grow, but maybe you should ask the huge retail chains why they refuse to pay a decent price to Irish growers so that they could stay in business.

I believe this is slowing improving - People want local fresh produce and are prepared to pay more for it.

Hell maybe if you were willing to pay a bit more for your carrots, onions, spuds then a grower in Ireland could compete with those in South Africa, Chile, etc.

As above I agree and i do pay more for local Irish veg where i can get it.

Do you know the average working hours of your average dairy farmer ?

The poster should not have brought the dairy farmers into this, it's not relevant to the event this week. The bigger guys can make a good living at dairy but you are correct it is hard work and they are the guys tied to the farm for milking.

jmayo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Intel, which I was told on a factory tour, 'washes the water it uses 7 times before putting it back into the watercourse' (what the f88k they are doing with it to require that, is another question) has received almost 90m euro in IDA grant/subsidy to build and develop it's plant. Presumably part of that went towards water treatment facilities.

Shhhhh.
FFS Francie will you be quiet.

Doesn't everyone know that all the subsidies are just for farmers.

No multinational in this country ever got a grant to set up here or expand.
No multinational is subsidised by the taxpayers of this state and every other state they do business in, because they get to wash their profits through third party states as they have their intellectual property rights registered in a postbox there.
No multinationals get their plant development and research costs written off against taxes.

No farmers are the problem with their subsidies.

And the worrying trend both here and now across Europe is they also seem to be the ones being blamed for climate change.

We keep hearing the mantra that if it isn't paying farmers to get out, find something else to do.
WTF are they supposed to do, start a petting farm, start a wildlife sanctuary ?
Everyone can't do those, there isn't a market.

If some in Europe have their way they will finish European farming and what will we be left with?
An industrial type agriculture dominated by big business and/or total dependence on foreign non EU unregulated imports?

Akabusi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You asked 'had I jumped the shark in comparing farming with the HSE' and i answered you.

If you cannot deal with that answer...that is your problem tbh.

A simple yes or no would suffice, not more waffle please.

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is exactly my point!

You try to take best care of what nature gives us, by doing things like not allowing people to dump poison into rivers, even if they really really really want to do so.
You don't need to pay them to not do it, you just need to tell them.

You are not allowed to poison the water.
But, but, but.
No buts, you are just not allowed, end of!

I have explained and substantiated my point over several posts now.
My position is not the same as yours.

You seem to prefer to believe that the rural economy should bear the economic cost of protecting a city's water supply.

I believe it is more nuanced than that and that all sectors have a role to play in protecting water quality.

Antares35

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so they wont have to travel to work again, or move kids around etc?

Not really sure what kind of trafficking offences are accepted in the country but in Dublin we frown on things like that

Well, they seem to be just blocking the city centre at the moment, which as far as I know doesn't have a huge number of crèches, schools etc. and is already a sh*thole traffic wise anyway. Good luck trying to make that worse.

I'd have to be extremely unlucky to be affected by any blockades I can think of since my route is suburb to very outer city, but for others I am sure our employers will be understanding given the high profile media frenzy around it - it's not like anyone will be accused of lying for a lie in!

Akabusi

jmayo wrote: »

Shhhhh.
FFS Francie will you be quiet.

Doesn't everyone know that all the subsidies are just for farmers.

No multinational in this country ever got a grant to set up here or expand.
No multinational is subsidised by the taxpayers of this state and every other state they do business in, because they get to wash their profits through third party states as they have their intellectual property rights registered in a postbox there.
No multinationals get their plant development and research costs written off against taxes.

No farmers are the problem with their subsidies.

And the worrying trend both here and now across Europe is they also seem to be the ones being blamed for climate change.

We keep hearing the mantra that if it isn't paying farmers to get out, find something else to do.
WTF are they supposed to do, start a petting farm, start a wildlife sanctuary ?
Everyone can't do those, there isn't a market.

If some in Europe have their way they will finish European farming and what will we be left with?
An industrial type agriculture dominated by big business and/or total dependence on foreign non EU unregulated imports?

There is a well defined tax rate which both multinationals and indigenous companies pay or at least should pay, any grants for setting up are repaid many times over through the thousands of jobs they provide because there is a market for their products which enables them to sell their products for more than they make them for and you know make profit, these beef farmers cannot do that with their product who have found that their is more supply than demand for their product.

This country is not perfect in lots of ways but it is alot better with the Multinationals than without.

sbsquarepants

elperello wrote: »

I have explained and substantiated my point over several posts now.
My position is not the same as yours.

You seem to prefer to believe that the rural economy should bear the economic cost of protecting a city's water supply.

I believe it is more nuanced than that and that all sectors have a role to play in protecting water quality.

Just not actively damaging something, is not the same thing as protecting it - surely you can see that?

There are any number of things i haven't damaged today, i'm not being paid for any of them. Why the hell would i be?

You seem to think it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion that you to be paid over the odds to produce the product of your choosing, regardless of market conditions, and not only that but then to also be paid extra just for not wrecking the place while doing so - absolute entitled madness of the highest order!

Deebles McBeebles

How many litres of green diesel do ye reckon is being sold on the quays today?

FrancieBrady

Akabusi wrote: »

A simple yes or no would suffice, not more waffle please.

I know you can only deal with 'simple' unfortunately it isn't a subject suited to simple.

FrancieBrady

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

How many litres of green diesel do ye reckon is being sold on the quays today?

What does that mean?

Deebles McBeebles

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What does that mean?

I'm assuming some enterprising city centre dwellers syphoned some out of the tractors for resale. Or just for huffing, who knows.

Akabusi

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I know you can only deal with 'simple' unfortunately it isn't a subject suited to simple.

And so the merry go round continues, you get called out on spouting nonsense and won't admit when you are wrong.

To show you how simple it really is:

Francie tries to compare subsidies that the farmers get to the HSE.

Some poster points out that is a ridiculous comparison to make as the HSE provide a public life saving service and there is no subsidies other than it is paid for through the state finances.

Now its either:

Yes it is a ridiculous comparison

or

No, I stand by it.

I'm leaving it simple so we don't get any more waffle.

sbsquarepants

Wasting your time mate - you'll get no sense out of Francie!

FrancieBrady

Akabusi wrote: »

And so the merry go round continues, you get called out on spouting nonsense and won't admit when you are wrong.

To show you how simple it really is:

Francie tries to compare subsidies that the farmers get to the HSE.

Some poster points out that is a ridiculous comparison to make as the HSE provide a public life saving service and there is no subsidies other than it is paid for through the state finances.

Now its either:

Yes it is a ridiculous comparison

or

No, I stand by it.

I'm leaving it simple so we don't get any more waffle.

You subsidise things because you want that subsidy to aid in the supply of a service or product to others.

Farming is subsidised so you and I can eat affordable food. If not in Ireland then in France Spain or wherever the food comes from. That is how we have developed the society we live in.

The HSE is subsidised in exactly the same way so you and I can afford health care.

You cannot subsidise farming on basis of what one poster does or doesn't eat.

I fully stand by the comparison.

Akabusi

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Wasting your time mate - you'll get no sense out of Francie!

100% correct.

sbsquarepants

:D:D

Told you Akabusi

FrancieBrady

Akabusi wrote: »

100% correct.

Ask yourself,

1. Why do we subsidise farming.
2. Why do we subsidise the HSE

The answer in both cases is: So the end user gets something that is affordable or for free.

Exactly the same thing.

sbsquarepants

We don't subsidise the HSE Francie, we own it.

I saw a headline in the indo (i think) a little while back. Farm income is 50% subsidies on average, do you not think you are getting propped up quite enough as it is?

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

We don't subsidise the HSE Francie, we own it.

I saw a headline in the indo (i think) a little while back. Farm income is 50% subsidies on average, do you not think you are getting propped up quite enough as it is?

Annnnnnnd pivot.

It's like debating with a distracted adolescent and you just did a 'whatever'.

weldoninhio

Strumms wrote: »

Pushing Gardai in the back....

Driving potentially lethal vehicles ie. Industrial farm equipment weighing tonnes at Gardai...

It’s only a snapshot of the protest but I never though I’d be typing this but next time.... get the army in.... do WHATEVER is necessary to prevent these fûcking degenerate, inbred bullyboy cûnts from creating havoc and life threatening thuggery on our streets...

I’ll always agree or disagree with people, encourage debate but reason my own ideals in a passionate responsible, respectful, safe and courteous manner..

There is no excuse for this... they should be relieved of their transport, fûcking baton charged and hauled in front of a judge...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wKqHJRX8AxI

Brain surgeon at 1.23 in that video. "What good is trees to anyone?"

Akabusi

sbsquarepants wrote: »

We don't subsidise the HSE Francie, we own it.

I saw a headline in the indo (i think) a little while back. Farm income is 50% subsidies on average, do you not think you are getting propped up quite enough as it is?

Wasting your time mate, won't get any sense out of Francie

weldoninhio

elperello wrote: »

All sectors contribute to water pollution, Farmers, individual houses, town and city sewage plants, industry and business, road run-off etc. etc.

As we are concentrating on farming here it's only fair to point out that farmers are subject to regulations. Some comply, some do not just the same as the other sectors listed.

My point is that if a city decides to pipe water from a rural area it makes sense to compensate the farmers. If they are expected to reduce production ie. reduce the commercial viability of their holding to help the city who should bear that cost?

It's not as simple as money for not polluting. We are all "poisoning the water" to one degree or another.

If they need farmland to run pipes through I'd be in favour of them CPOing the land needed. Farmer gets the market rate for the amount of land needed and we get fresh water.

elperello

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Just not actively damaging something, is not the same thing as protecting it - surely you can see that?

There are any number of things i haven't damaged today, i'm not being paid for any of them. Why the hell would i be?

You seem to think it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion that you to be paid over the odds to produce the product of your choosing, regardless of market conditions, and not only that but then to also be paid extra just for not wrecking the place while doing so - absolute entitled madness of the highest order!

Of course.

You shouldn't be.

I don't think that at all.

weldoninhio

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again with the 'ME's'

The norm is that most people don't - they protest and they protest for a very long time until they get what they want or some acceptable version of what they want.
Farmers are doing the exact same thing that other workers, city and rural, have a right to do.

You actually think that there are more protests, than people that quit their jobs on a daily basis due to pay or conditions??

FrancieBrady

weldoninhio wrote: »

You actually think that there are more protests, than people that quit their jobs on a daily basis due to pay or conditions??

Maybe I was a bit unclear there.

If people in a factory or a sector are hit then they will protest as a group.

Bishop of hope

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is exactly my point!

You try to take best care of what nature gives us, by doing things like not allowing people to dump poison into rivers, even if they really really really want to do so.
You don't need to pay them to not do it, you just need to tell them.

You are not allowed to poison the water.
But, but, but.
No buts, you are just not allowed, end of!

You don't really understand nature at all do you?
Just having a whinge at farmers.
Farming is subsidised for a reason, its pretty clear to most people why it is so, but some just like a whinge, whinge, whinge.
Nature is full of poisons, if you took every cow out of Ireland there would still be no safe drinking water of a scale to provide potable water for our major towns and cities, you'd still be drinking treated water.

sbsquarepants

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You don't really understand nature at all do you?
Just having a whinge at farmers.
Farming is subsidised for a reason, its pretty clear to most people why it is so, but some just like a whinge, whinge, whinge.
Nature is full of poisons, if you took every cow out of Ireland there would still be no safe drinking water of a scale to provide potable water for our major towns and cities, you'd still be drinking treated water.

Jesus christ, talk about missing the point!

I'm not saying us city slickers could just get down on our hands and knees and drink the delicious puddles where they lie only for you pesky farmers poisoning the water. Of course it has to be bloody treated ffs!

My point is, farmers do not deserve yet another hand out to just not contaminate the ground water with shítty work practices.

Not poisoning the water should be the default starting point, and if you do you should be made pay to clean it. How people can argue against that is beyond me!

If the simple act of not being allowed to poison the water makes your business non viable, well then your business is non viable - end of story. Time for a change of business.

Bishop of hope

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Jesus christ, talk about missing the point!

I'm not saying us city slickers could just get down on our hands and knees and drink the delicious puddles where they lie only for you pesky farmers poisoning the water. Of course it has to be bloody treated ffs!

My point is, farmers do not deserve yet another hand out to just not contaminate the ground water with shítty work practices.

Not poisoning the water should be the default starting point, and if you do you should be made pay to clean it. How people can argue against that is beyond me!

If the simple act of not being allowed to poison the water makes your business non viable, well then your business is non viable - end of story. Time for a change of business.

As I said, you don't understand. You in your house poison the water..................
If you had to treat your water waste to a point where it wasn't a pollutant, you be out a fair bit of money, you might be lucky and be able to do that, but most people can't

Calhoun

I think we may need to look into letting the smaller farmers fail or start compulsory purchase orders and just buy out the too small to compete and sell them on to bigger groups.

Then the farming lobby would have a bigger say. Holding onto the land like it's 2019 version of the field just leads us to a scenario where we have a fractured farming group.

elperello

Calhoun wrote: »

I think we may need to look into letting the smaller farmers fail or start compulsory purchase orders and just buy out the too small to compete and sell them on to bigger groups.

Then the farming lobby would have a bigger say. Holding onto the land like it's 2019 version of the field just leads us to a scenario where we have a fractured farming group.

That would not be legal.
The State cannot compulsorily purchase land to sell on.
You may be familiar with the Thomas Reid/Intel case.

Spanish Eyes

Sorry now if I have missed anything fundamental to the discussion.

But realistically can Government or EU or whatever really interfere with PLC or private processing companies in a free market.

I dunno how such interference could happen. Does anyone?

Calhoun

elperello wrote: »

That would not be legal.
The State cannot compulsorily purchase land to sell on.
You may be familiar with the Thomas Reid/Intel case.

Well then CPO and have it collectively managed, gets away from the small farm stock that are just hanging on and too small for the existing representative groups out there.

elperello

Calhoun wrote: »

Well then CPO and have it collectively managed, gets away from the small farm stock that are just hanging on and too small for the existing representative groups out there.

The CPO idea is a dead duck. Sorry to dismiss it so brutally but it just won't fly.
You would clog up the courts for years if any Government tried it.

What you are suggesting in terms of land use may have some merit.
Voluntary sales would be a different matter.

Thelonious Monk

weldoninhio wrote: »

Brain surgeon at 1.23 in that video. "What good is trees to anyone?"

yeah, Christ, when you think these animals own most of the land in Ireland and they can't even see the point in trees. This is why the world is f*cked!

Calhoun

elperello wrote: »

The CPO idea is a dead duck. Sorry to dismiss it so brutally but it just won't fly.
You would clog up the courts for years if any Government tried it.

What you are suggesting in terms of land use may have some merit.
Voluntary sales would be a different matter.

I know the reality of the situation really is that they either need to join one of the existing representative groups or form their own group and go from there.

The thing that is killing them is they are individuals and that has diluted their power greatly, they need to be able to speak as one coherent voice.

Normally this issue would solve itself because if things were so bad those who could not compete would go to the wall and be bought out creating bigger farms with a bigger voice.

theguzman

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Sorry now if I have missed anything fundamental to the discussion.

But realistically can Government or EU or whatever really interfere with PLC or private processing companies in a free market.

I dunno how such interference could happen. Does anyone?

Break up Larry Goodman's monopoly, he has had the worst effect on rural Ireland since the days of the British Landlords, thousands of farmers backs are to the wall, they can't take no more and what is needed in increased protests against the Government until Goodman's stranglehold on farming is broken.

Those farmers were incredibly restrained the last day but it is only a matter of when and not if before things get very serious. I can see a total bloackade on Dublin, block the M50, blockade on Dublin Airport and occupy Google and Facebook HQ's to show the D4 liberal elite to turn their back on the country at their peril. They should also block level crossings and the LUAS and disrupt the lives of city folk, let them see if you live in the city your food is supplied by Rural Dwellers, there should be no surrender until Goodman monopoly is broken.

You push a man to brink of losing everything and the pushback will be severe because when you have nothing left then you have nothing to lose and no Gardai will be able to stop them, unless they decide to send in the Armed Response Unit to shoot and kill but if the Govt tried that they would remember that most farmers are already heavily armed and the country would descend into Civil war within days of any such violence against farmers.

elperello

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

yeah, Christ, when you think these animals own most of the land in Ireland and they can't even see the point in trees. This is why the world is f*cked!

Bit harsh dismissing them as animals.

I don't know where the guy who said that was from but in Leitrim there is a lot of unease over forestry. It's mono culture Sitka Spruce and it's trees but not as you know them.

The plantations completely change the character of the landscape and leave whole communities feeling isolated. Some people make the profit and others are pushed aside.

buried

If they ever blocked the M50 that would some scene. The tailbacks would be back as far as Athlone, Cahir and Waterford in a matter of a couple of hours.

Doctors room ghost

buried wrote: »

If they ever blocked the M50 that would some scene. The tailbacks would be back as far as Athlone, Cahir and Waterford in a matter of a couple of hours.

If they ever blocked the m50 the army should be sent in with live rounds and riddle them out of it.simple as

theguzman

buried wrote: »

If they ever blocked the M50 that would some scene. The tailbacks would be back as far as Athlone, Cahir and Waterford in a matter of a couple of hours.

They have more of a right to cause disruption than the Extinction Rebellion who were welcomed and accommodated to preach their cult scientific lies. There is massive ill-feeling growing in rural Ireland towards Dublin in recent times, every job located there, no rural investment, pontificating about climate change etc. It will take very little to start a massive series Protests whereby Farmers and Rural people will protest against the elite in Dublin, similar to Brexit where Rural England stood up to the London Elite our very own Rural V Urban conflict is looming large.

elperello

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

If they ever blocked the m50 the army should be sent in with live rounds and riddle them out of it.simple as

I know this is AH but it's a bit early for that sort of stuff.

Thelonious Monk

elperello wrote: »

Bit harsh dismissing them as animals.

I don't know where the guy who said that was from but in Leitrim there is a lot of unease over forestry. It's mono culture Sitka Spruce and it's trees but not as you know them.

The plantations completely change the character of the landscape and leave whole communities feeling isolated. Some people make the profit and others are pushed aside.

Feeling isolated why? Because there are sitka spruce plantations? What they can't see the next house which is miles away anyway?

theguzman

elperello wrote: »

I know this is AH but it's a bit early for that sort of stuff.

In America they have the NRA, In Ireland there is hundreds of thousands of legally licenced firearms and such an attack on bankrupt farmers would start a second Irish Civil War, I highly doubt that the Irish Soldiers would obey such orders if they were given, most likely you would see Mutinies and they would go to defend the farmers instead.

Beechwoodspark

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

If they ever blocked the m50 the army should be sent in with live rounds and riddle them out of it.simple as

What the hell are you drinkin

Treble vodkas?