The Farming Protest @ Dublin City Centre

Doctors room ghost

elperello wrote: »

I know this is AH but it's a bit early for that sort of stuff.

Twas a bit early too when creed called to the lads at 7 bells and they fast asleep in their 60 grand new hollands.

Surprised they were.

theguzman

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Twas a bit early too when creed called to the lads at 7 bells and they fast asleep in their 60 grand new hollands.

Surprised they were.

Most farmers I know are awake at 6 or before it, as the saying goes, the day is nearly over when they wake up above in Dublin.

Spanish Eyes

theguzman wrote: »

Break up Larry Goodman's monopoly, he has had the worst effect on rural Ireland since the days of the British Landlords, thousands of farmers backs are to the wall, they can't take no more and what is needed in increased protests against the Government until Goodman's stranglehold on farming is broken.

Those farmers were incredibly restrained the last day but it is only a matter of when and not if before things get very serious. I can see a total bloackade on Dublin, block the M50, blockade on Dublin Airport and occupy Google and Facebook HQ's to show the D4 liberal elite to turn their back on the country at their peril. They should also block level crossings and the LUAS and disrupt the lives of city folk, let them see if you live in the city your food is supplied by Rural Dwellers, there should be no surrender until Goodman monopoly is broken.

You push a man to brink of losing everything and the pushback will be severe because when you have nothing left then you have nothing to lose and no Gardai will be able to stop them, unless they decide to send in the Armed Response Unit to shoot and kill but if the Govt tried that they would remember that most farmers are already heavily armed and the country would descend into Civil war within days of any such violence against farmers.

I hear you.

But the law cannot break up any company unless they are tax defaulters.

How could this be done would you tell me?

I would caution against disrupting life for others. City people do not disrupt the lives of beef farmers remember.

FrancieBrady

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Feeling isolated why? Because there are sitka spruce plantations? What they can't see the next house which is miles away anyway?

The bizarre absolute disconnect again. We'll plant dense 30-40 ft trees all around your house and see how you feel about it after 4 seasons pass...hell, we'll check after a few days.

Doctors room ghost

theguzman wrote: »

Most farmers I know are awake at 6 or before it, as the saying goes, the day is nearly over when they wake up above in Dublin.

Wasn’t the case yesterday or were you not following it

Ush1

theguzman wrote: »

Break up Larry Goodman's monopoly, he has had the worst effect on rural Ireland since the days of the British Landlords, thousands of farmers backs are to the wall, they can't take no more and what is needed in increased protests against the Government until Goodman's stranglehold on farming is broken.

Those farmers were incredibly restrained the last day but it is only a matter of when and not if before things get very serious. I can see a total bloackade on Dublin, block the M50, blockade on Dublin Airport and occupy Google and Facebook HQ's to show the D4 liberal elite to turn their back on the country at their peril. They should also block level crossings and the LUAS and disrupt the lives of city folk, let them see if you live in the city your food is supplied by Rural Dwellers, there should be no surrender until Goodman monopoly is broken.

You push a man to brink of losing everything and the pushback will be severe because when you have nothing left then you have nothing to lose and no Gardai will be able to stop them, unless they decide to send in the Armed Response Unit to shoot and kill but if the Govt tried that they would remember that most farmers are already heavily armed and the country would descend into Civil war within days of any such violence against farmers.

Cool story bro.

Wanderer78

Doctors room ghost wrote:

If they ever blocked the m50 the army should be sent in with live rounds and riddle them out of it.simple as

Very simple alright

MrMusician18

Calhoun wrote: »

Well then CPO and have it collectively managed, gets away from the small farm stock that are just hanging on and too small for the existing representative groups out there.

CPO would be illegal. However there is no need to have land ownership change but the smaller farms need to collectivise if they want to survive. This means more leasing, more partnerships and the like and the state could do more to facilitate these arrangements by making things easier legally.

That said, the real barrier to those kinds of agreements is cultural, not legal. Looking at it objectively in a cold level headed way, these agreements make business sense but because of attachment to the land and emotions around identity and control, they are not used as much as they should be.

elperello

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Feeling isolated why? Because there are sitka spruce plantations? What they can't see the next house which is miles away anyway?

If you are really interested go and read up on the issue.
I know some of these people and their concerns are real.
You called them animals so I don't expect too much empathy from you.

Calhoun

MrMusician18 wrote: »

CPO would be illegal. However there is no need to have land ownership change but the smaller farms need to collectivise if they want to survive. This means more leasing, more partnerships and the like and the state could do more to facilitate these arrangements by making things easier legally.

That said, the real barrier to those kinds of agreements is cultural, not legal. Looking at it objectively in a cold level headed way, these agreements make business sense but because of attachment to the land and emotions around identity and control, they are not used as much as they should be.

We need to shake off the spectre of the 800 year war, keeping things the way they are is not really helping anyone and actually weakens the position of the farmers.

Should we keep supporting a system that is counter productive to business and bargaining power just because of an attachment to a piece of land past down through generations.

Bishop of hope

Calhoun wrote: »

We need to shake off the spectre of the 800 year war, keeping things the way they are is not really helping anyone and actually weakens the position of the farmers.

Should we keep supporting a system that is counter productive to business and bargaining power just because of an attachment to a piece of land past down through generations.

Counter productive to business and bargaining power, you're Larry Goodmanesqe in that type of talk, he has been abusing these so called small farmers with this type of bull****.
I feel this is all part of his plan to squeeze out small holding farmers too.

Spanish Eyes

Who were looking after the cattle while the boggers with the humungous John Deeres were in the Shmoke?

Lovely tractors. Probably got a few other machines in the yard too.

awec

theguzman wrote: »

Break up Larry Goodman's monopoly, he has had the worst effect on rural Ireland since the days of the British Landlords, thousands of farmers backs are to the wall, they can't take no more and what is needed in increased protests against the Government until Goodman's stranglehold on farming is broken.

Those farmers were incredibly restrained the last day but it is only a matter of when and not if before things get very serious. I can see a total bloackade on Dublin, block the M50, blockade on Dublin Airport and occupy Google and Facebook HQ's to show the D4 liberal elite to turn their back on the country at their peril. They should also block level crossings and the LUAS and disrupt the lives of city folk, let them see if you live in the city your food is supplied by Rural Dwellers, there should be no surrender until Goodman monopoly is broken.

You push a man to brink of losing everything and the pushback will be severe because when you have nothing left then you have nothing to lose and no Gardai will be able to stop them, unless they decide to send in the Armed Response Unit to shoot and kill but if the Govt tried that they would remember that most farmers are already heavily armed and the country would descend into Civil war within days of any such violence against farmers.

theguzman wrote: »

They have more of a right to cause disruption than the Extinction Rebellion who were welcomed and accommodated to preach their cult scientific lies. There is massive ill-feeling growing in rural Ireland towards Dublin in recent times, every job located there, no rural investment, pontificating about climate change etc. It will take very little to start a massive series Protests whereby Farmers and Rural people will protest against the elite in Dublin, similar to Brexit where Rural England stood up to the London Elite our very own Rural V Urban conflict is looming large.

theguzman wrote: »

In America they have the NRA, In Ireland there is hundreds of thousands of legally licenced firearms and such an attack on bankrupt farmers would start a second Irish Civil War, I highly doubt that the Irish Soldiers would obey such orders if they were given, most likely you would see Mutinies and they would go to defend the farmers instead.

Definitely the best posts in the thread so far.

Beware the rural artillery.

Beechwoodspark

The minister is useless.

HorrorScope

Oh noes the dubs got inconvenienced by the farmers.....*le solo tear*

Beechwoodspark

The dubs need to realise the city doesn’t belong to them solely

It belongs to the ppl of Ireland

Beechwoodspark

Agree it’s a case of when. Not if

HorrorScope

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The dubs need to realise the city doesn’t belong to them solely

It belongs to the ppl of Ireland

Speak for yourself, I don’t want that junkie ****hole attached to my name.

Spanish Eyes

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The dubs need to realise the city doesn’t belong to them solely

It belongs to the ppl of Ireland

How so? Bearing in mind that I think you are a shturrer anyway. Get a life.

Spanish Eyes

How much does a new John Deere tractor cost these days? Just wondered.

For Forks Sake

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The minister is useless.

He made idiots of the protesters when he showed up at 7.30 in the morning to see the 'leaders' (who had been demanding he appear) and there was no sign of them to be seen.

Beechwoodspark

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How so? Bearing in mind that I think you are a shturrer anyway. Get a life.

It’s the capital city and seat of govt spanish

Calhoun

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Counter productive to business and bargaining power, you're Larry Goodmanesqe in that type of talk, he has been abusing these so called small farmers with this type of bull****.
I feel this is all part of his plan to squeeze out small holding farmers too.

I would say that is exactly the plan, no maybes about it. So they either work together and get more power or they fall as individuals. Also he has now put them into a position where its the small farmers versus the public at large.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/protesting-farmers-vow-to-shut-down-dublin-city-and-block-m50-1.4095520

Either way problem solved, however only one of them keeps a semblance of their lives intact as they are today.

Beechwoodspark

For Forks Sake wrote: »

He made idiots of the protesters when he showed up at 7.30 in the morning to see the 'leaders' (who had been demanding he appear) and there was no sign of them to be seen.

Everyone said he appeared a clown - dithering fumbling fidgeting fustering

He had his ear burned from Leo and the d4 crew

Then literally - I mean literally- scurried out to meet anyone ANYONE who would meet him

Weak

Ineffectual

Useless

Leo - Get rid

Beechwoodspark

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How so? Bearing in mind that I think you are a shturrer anyway. Get a life.

It’s the capital of the republic

MrMusician18

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How much does a new John Deere tractor cost these days? Just wondered.

A three year old Deere 130hp with 2.5k hrs on the clock will set you back about €50k

Morris Moss

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How much does a new John Deere tractor cost these days? Just wondered.

Do ya think the money is paid with cash or something, never heard of a loan no?

Calhoun

Morris Moss wrote: »

Do ya think the money is paid with cash or something, never heard of a loan no?

If you can afford to service a lone on equipment worth over 50K then they musn't be as bad off as they are talking about.

GreenandRed

Calhoun wrote: »

If you can afford to service a lone on equipment worth over 50K then they musn't be as bad off as they are talking about.

It's their livelihood. Like any self employed tradesman investing in a van, tools, materials. Not much point in working without them. Not much point in farming without a tractor.

Calhoun

GreenandRed wrote: »

It's their livelihood. Like any self employed tradesman investing in a van, tools, materials. Not much point in working without them. Not much point in farming without a tractor.

Indeed but credit isn't granted to a business that is not sustainable unless banks have change their lending practices.

A tractor is just one piece of equipment i am sure there are allot more.

GreenandRed

Calhoun wrote: »

Indeed but credit isn't granted to a business that is not sustainable unless banks have change their lending practices.

A tractor is just one piece of equipment i am sure there are allot more.

An awful lot more. An awful lot of farms are sustainable though. Maybe for farms that have become sustainable the farmer land is used as collateral.

GreenandRed

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

How much does a new John Deere tractor cost these days? Just wondered.

They're Deere enough.....

Calhoun

GreenandRed wrote: »

An awful lot more. An awful lot of farms are sustainable though. Maybe for farms that have become sustainable the farmer land is used as collateral.

Which means there is some level of commercial value there. So is it as bad as they are making out? probably not.

Things probably could be better but if they group up under a single coherent voice then they are not going to last.

Especially as dealing with the likes of Larry Goodman, having the other farming representation bodies in line makes it look like its a small group of upstarts that are possibly doing themselves more harm than good.

GreenandRed

Calhoun wrote: »

Which means there is some level of commercial value there. So is it as bad as they are making out? probably not.

Things probably could be better but if they group up under a single coherent voice then they are not going to last.

Especially as dealing with the likes of Larry Goodman, having the other farming representation bodies in line makes it look like its a small group of upstarts that are possibly doing themselves more harm than good.

I have to admire any group who stand up to Goodman or other big business to try and get better terms for themselves. We're far too passive and let us be walked upon by people who don't expect to be challenged, including and especially the banks who think they're above the law. I don't think either that if you use a couple of hundred acres of land that your farm has any more or less commercial value. Banks would take your kidneys as collateral to claim the interest on loans.

Doctors room ghost

Morris Moss wrote: »

Do ya think the money is paid with cash or something, never heard of a loan no?

And who’s putting a gun to their heads making them draw down loans.

Trying to out do the neighbors most of them.
A big lump of a 4 wd tractor north of 60 grand to feed a lock of sucklers where a 30 year old banger with half a cab would do the same and cost next to nothing.
And they the rest of the year moaning about how bad things are.

Calhoun

GreenandRed wrote: »

I have to admire any group who stand up to Goodman or other big business to try and get better terms for themselves. We're far too passive and let us be walked upon by people who don't expect to be challenged, including and especially the banks who think they're above the law. I don't think either that if you use a couple of hundred acres of land that your farm has any more or less commercial value. Banks would take your kidneys as collateral to claim the interest on loans.

I would agree, standing up for yourself is an admirable trait but they aren't really standing up to Goodman as they are targeting the public, as per their threats to shut down the M50 and Dublin.

There has to be a commercial value to the land or they wouldn't get the loan, unless banks treat farmers different than to the rest of public.

Bishop of hope

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

And who’s putting a gun to their heads making them draw down loans.

Trying to out do the neighbors most of them.
A big lump of a 4 wd tractor north of 60 grand to feed a lock of sucklers where a 30 year old banger with half a cab would do the same and cost next to nothing.
And they the rest of the year moaning about how bad things are.

There are very fewfarmers with a tractor north of sixty grand tbf.
Most small holdings would spend less than 20 grand on a good second hand tractor.
Tractors are sturdy and keep well if looked after.
Most small holdings also use hire contractors to do their heavy work, silage harvesting and slurry spreading being the main ones as they couldn't economically afford or justify the cost of such heavy machinery.

Millionaire only not

theguzman wrote: »

Break up Larry Goodman's monopoly, he has had the worst effect on rural Ireland since the days of the British Landlords, thousands of farmers backs are to the wall, they can't take no more and what is needed in increased protests against the Government until Goodman's stranglehold on farming is broken.

Those farmers were incredibly restrained the last day but it is only a matter of when and not if before things get very serious. I can see a total bloackade on Dublin, block the M50, blockade on Dublin Airport and occupy Google and Facebook HQ's to show the D4 liberal elite to turn their back on the country at their peril. They should also block level crossings and the LUAS and disrupt the lives of city folk, let them see if you live in the city your food is supplied by Rural Dwellers, there should be no surrender until Goodman monopoly is broken.

You push a man to brink of losing everything and the pushback will be severe because when you have nothing left then you have nothing to lose and no Gardai will be able to stop them, unless they decide to send in the Armed Response Unit to shoot and kill but if the Govt tried that they would remember that most farmers are already heavily armed and the country would descend into Civil war within days of any such violence against farmers.

Excellent wish we had a leader with these thoughts !
Would be a help if CAB had a go first

GreenandRed

Calhoun wrote: »

I would agree, standing up for yourself is an admirable trait but they aren't really standing up to Goodman as they are targeting the public, as per their threats to shut down the M50 and Dublin.

There has to be a commercial value to the land or they wouldn't get the loan, unless banks treat farmers different than to the rest of public.

As much commercial value as prospective loanees alleged income that banks knew were lies and continued to fire out mortgages to. Lending institutions are the lowest of the low for me. Aided and abetted by a government who talk righteously while turning a blind eye.

If Larry Goodman was meeting at the Halal factory in Ballyhaunis, my hometown, and the farmers protested, there would be little or no media highlight for them. Probably they would have put their tractors on Dublin Airport runways if they could manage it.

Millionaire only not

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

And who’s putting a gun to their heads making them draw down loans.

Trying to out do the neighbors most of them.
A big lump of a 4 wd tractor north of 60 grand to feed a lock of sucklers where a 30 year old banger with half a cab would do the same and cost next to nothing.
And they the rest of the year moaning about how bad things are.

We can make same comparison, why buy Audi A6 and bmw 520 where a good second hand Kia or Toyota will do the job!

Might be able to stay at home mind there children instead of throwing them in crèche !
No one is putting gun to ur head to Live in an overpriced semi d where u wudnt swing a cat , paying for it over next 30 years . Whining and moaning

GreenandRed

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

And who’s putting a gun to their heads making them draw down loans.

Trying to out do the neighbors most of them.
A big lump of a 4 wd tractor north of 60 grand to feed a lock of sucklers where a 30 year old banger with half a cab would do the same and cost next to nothing.
And they the rest of the year moaning about how bad things are.

You don't know any farmers if you think they'd waste even one cent to impress their neighbours.

MrMusician18

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

And who’s putting a gun to their heads making them draw down loans.

Trying to out do the neighbors most of them.
A big lump of a 4 wd tractor north of 60 grand to feed a lock of sucklers where a 30 year old banger with half a cab would do the same and cost next to nothing.
And they the rest of the year moaning about how bad things are.

According to the poster over in the Farming forum, b the big shiny tractors at the protest were provided by farming contractors on the basis that their opposition to the carbon tax would be raised. Given the size and freshness of some of the machines on show, this does seem to be quite probable.

I did see some placards about the tax, seemingly the contractors were unhappy that the opposition to the tax wasn't prominent enough.

Millionaire only not

GreenandRed wrote: »

As much commercial value as prospective loanees alleged income that banks knew were lies and continued to fire out mortgages to. Lending institutions are the lowest of the low for me. Aided and abetted by a government who talk righteously while turning a blind eye.

If Larry Goodman was meeting at the Halal factory in Ballyhaunis, my hometown, and the farmers protested, there would be little or no media highlight for them. Probably they would have put their tractors on Dublin Airport runways if they could manage it.

Banks like land because it balances there books on a loan to value ratio ! As against overpriced ****e in Dublin !
In the 2 years leading up to the crash our 2 main pillar banks mounted a country wide investment evenings .
Targeting farmers and land free of burden and lent money for investments from here to Germany and beyond !
They were also selling there prime buildings to Larry and co and renting them back !

Millionaire only not

GreenandRed wrote: »

You don't know any farmers if you think they'd waste even one cent to impress their neighbours.

I don’t know about that !
My fields are greener, buildings newer and bigger , and the wife got last years subsides to make the boobs bigger !

elperello

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Banks like land because it balances there books on a loan to value ratio ! As against overpriced ****e in Dublin !
In the 2 years leading up to the crash our 2 main pillar banks mounted a country wide investment evenings .
Targeting farmers and land free of burden and lent money for investments from here to Germany and beyond !
They were also selling there prime buildings to Larry and co and renting them bac!k

I did some work on those sales and that's when I started to get really uneasy.
Bur they got away with it and they are at it again.

Morris Moss

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

And who’s putting a gun to their heads making them draw down loans.

Trying to out do the neighbors most of them.
A big lump of a 4 wd tractor north of 60 grand to feed a lock of sucklers where a 30 year old banger with half a cab would do the same and cost next to nothing.
And they the rest of the year moaning about how bad things are.

Whats you're point? I only said their not bought with cash, a 60k loan over 7 years isn't exactly outrageous now is it. Also it's easy to give a loan when you have land as collateral, it's a win win for banks.

sbsquarepants

Bishop of hope wrote: »

As I said, you don't understand. You in your house poison the water..................
If you had to treat your water waste to a point where it wasn't a pollutant, you be out a fair bit of money, you might be lucky and be able to do that, but most people can't

It's yourself who doesn't understand.

If i was running a business from my house which was poisoning the water, over and above the usual flushing the jacks and taking a shower level of poisoning we're all guilty of (and pay for the cleaning of via our taxes, but that's another argument!) then yes, i should definitely be forced to take measures to bring my output back in line.

I'm not suggesting you could bottle the waste water from my house and sell it in harrods for €50 a bottle!

Farms are a god damn business, nothing more nothing less, they aren't some sacred spiritual treasure. If they are polluting they need to put measures in place to stop that, if they can't afford to do that, they just aren't a viable business.

We don't let Diageo just pump whatever the fúck they want into the liffey because they'd be out of pocket if we didn't, and we certainly don't throw money at them for not doing so either - we force them to not do so! And that's how it should be.

tjhook

MrMusician18 wrote: »

A three year old Deere 130hp with 2.5k hrs on the clock will set you back about €50k

Interesting, I hadn't realised that tractor lives are measured in hours, rather than kms,. I think the same applies to aircraft. I suppose maybe on a farm, kms wouldn't be much of an indicator of how intensively the tractor has been used.


Is it an informal count logged by the farmer, or does a modern tractor actually have a dial to display the hours it's been used?


I'm glad I read this thread now

sbsquarepants

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I don’t know about that !
My fields are greener, buildings newer and bigger , and the wife got last years subsides to make the boobs bigger !

At least you're putting the money to good use, no one objects to tax hikes for bigger boobs:D

Bishop of hope

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's yourself who doesn't understand.

If i was running a business from my house which was poisoning the water, over and above the usual flushing the jacks and taking a shower level of poisoning we're all guilty of (and pay for the cleaning of via our taxes, but that's another argument!) then yes, i should definitely be forced to take measures to bring my output back in line.

I'm not suggesting you could bottle the waste water from my house and sell it in harrods for €50 a bottle!

Farms are a god damn business, nothing more nothing less, they aren't some sacred spiritual treasure. If they are polluting they need to put measures in place to stop that, if they can't afford to do that, they just aren't a viable business.

We don't let Diageo just pump whatever the fúck they want into the liffey because they'd be out of pocket if we didn't, and we certainly don't throw money at them for not doing so either - we force them to not do so! And that's how it should be.

Then the only solution to that dilemma is factory farming, all stock indoors, waste caught in a tank and treated and that doesent happen anywhere, not in any country, not in any imagination of beef production in the world.
Basically you're talking bollix about something that is never going to happen and as I said, just whinging about farmers.

And you don't understand.