The Farming Protest @ Dublin City Centre

dmakc

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

it's pure greed driving their protest. they want to be millionaires, but they never will be, so give it up lads. nobody wants your moaning or your overpriced dead animals

My word you truly are clueless on the matter. One can only assume an underlying bias stemming from somewhere along the line. Maybe go and educate yourself on the matter at hand, as these oblivious paragraphs of bashing are quite laughable.

facehugger99

Has there ever been a period of time where the farmers weren't moaning about something?

They're like the nurses or the teachers when it comes to complaining, you just don't take them seriously anymore.

If this issue with beef-prices was sorted out, they'd be moaning about something else next week.

end of the road

facehugger99 wrote: »

Has there ever been a period of time where the farmers weren't moaning about something?

They're like the nurses or the teachers when it comes to complaining, you just don't take them seriously anymore.

If this issue with beef-prices was sorted out, they'd be moaning about something else next week.

it's not the farmers, teachers etc who are moaning.
it's the ones castigating them that are tbh.

sbsquarepants

facehugger99 wrote: »

Has there ever been a period of time where the farmers weren't moaning about something?

They're like the nurses or the teachers when it comes to complaining, you just don't take them seriously anymore.

If this issue with beef-prices was sorted out, they'd be moaning about something else next week.

Never has been and never will be.

I'd say UG the very first man to plant a seed in the ground for a living bored the tits off poor auld OG in the next hut, moaning about his lot and how OG and his mates would really have to put a little something extra in UGs trough to keep him going.

Bellyaching is to farmers as breathing is to the rest of us.

Bishop of hope

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Never has been and never will be.

I'd say UG the very first man to plant a seed in the ground for a living bored the tits off poor auld OG in the next hut, moaning about his lot and how OG and his mates would really have to put a little something extra in UGs trough to keep him going.

Bellyaching is to farmers as breathing is to the rest of us.

Ironic post!

Vizzy

Parked my car opposite the entrance to a farm this morning and a milk tanker could get out for a while ( well 4 hours).

Farmer wasn't impressed when I went back to collect the car.

Funny that

Beechwoodspark

thebaz wrote: »

Yeah , make ordinary working Dublin people suffer, who are also trying to make a living, for something that is nothing to do with them - take the ****ing issue to whoever you have the issue with - not ordinary Dubliners.

As said many times on this thread and the other farming thread it’s nothing to do with ordinary dublin people

The protest is in city centre dublin because that’s where the seat of govt for Ireland is and also it happens to be the same location for the dept of agriculture.

It’s nothing to do with ordinary dublin ppl as You put it.

Beechwoodspark

A farmer said to me over the wkend “if the Dail was in the middle of Leitrim that’s where we would protest”

Bishop of hope

Vizzy wrote: »

Parked my car opposite the entrance to a farm this morning and a milk tanker could get out for a while ( well 4 hours).

Farmer wasn't impressed when I went back to collect the car.

Funny that

Was it a protest?

elperello

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

As said many times on this thread and the other farming thread it’s nothing to do with ordinary dublin people

The protest is in city centre dublin because that’s where the seat of govt for Ireland is and also it happens to be the same location for the dept of agriculture.

It’s nothing to do with ordinary dublin ppl as You put it.

Yes but you can't ignore the fact that "ordinary people" are inconvenienced by the blockades of Dublin streets.

The strategy seems to be to get the government to give in before the "ordinary people" get too upset.

What happens if the pivot point is misjudged?

All My Stars Aligned

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

As said many times on this thread and the other farming thread it’s nothing to do with ordinary dublin people

The protest is in city centre dublin because that’s where the seat of govt for Ireland is and also it happens to be the same location for the dept of agriculture.

It’s nothing to do with ordinary dublin ppl as You put it.

Talk of cutting off food supply would say differently. It's absolutely about causing as much disruption as possible.

awec

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

A farmer said to me over the wkend “if the Dail was in the middle of Leitrim that’s where we would protest”

If the dail was in the middle of Leitrim and farmers blocked it nobody would give a feck. They could set up camp and stay there until this time next year and nobody would be arsed.

The farmers are deliberately pissing off Dubliners because they think if they do that enough the government will cave.

jmayo

Balf wrote: »

Because a better deal for the taxpayer and the customer is out of the question.

Jaysus fook me pink I didn't know farmers couldn't fit into either of those groups:eek:

Shuhada Davitt wrote: »

why do the farmers think that they are so important though?
we can import all our food for cheaper, and fvck them. they're private businesses, and by the very nature of "private businesses" you take a risk by starting one up.

if farming is dying out, then so be it. there's plenty of other sources for food.

Ah yes why do we need farming?

Why do we need to be able to produce some of our own food, you know like milk, cheese, pork, beef, lamb.

Shure we could import it all from Brazil, US or Denmark.

And anyway why do we need an agri industry.
Aren't we one of the greatest countries for technology, pharma and medical devices in the world.
Aren't all the huge multinationals here, all because we are ever so smart and can speak English.

We have Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Intel, Dell, Oracle, SAP, IBM, Linkedin, Twitter, Boston Scientific, Medtronic, Stryker, GSK, Pfizer, GSK.
Yes it is a very impressive list.

All fine Irish companies, owned by Irish people and never likely to disappear ala the other great multinationals that were once here like Digital, Ford, VW, Wang, Gateway, Molex, Motorola.:rolleyes:

A few years ago 40% of our Corpo Tax take was from 10 companies.
Now I wonder how many of those 10 are here because of the old Double Dutch, the side deals done with government many years ago, and/or the cheap corpo tax rate?

Apart from CRH, Glen Dimplex, Ryanair, Smuffit can anyone name a major multinational we have that isn't involved in agri business ?

If anyone really wants to see a country that has built their own technology companies then lookup Israel to see how it is done.

Snails pace

This thread clearly shows the urban/rural divide.
Farms are being pushed to the brink, if agriculture goes in rural ireland, over a couple of years most rural towns will go into decline.

Its hard for people inside the pale to understand. If a farmer makes a few bob, its reinvested into the farm, in terms of stock, infrastructure or machinery. The majority of which is bought locally, their children go to school locally and play in local clubs, they shop locally, the majority of them help out in local community projects. If beef farming goes the knock on effects to employment will be felt all over the country, and that includes dublin.

elperello

Snails pace wrote: »

This thread clearly shows the urban/rural divide.
Farms are being pushed to the brink, if agriculture goes in rural ireland, over a couple of years most rural towns will go into decline.

Its hard for people inside the pale to understand. If a farmer makes a few bob, its reinvested into the farm, in terms of stock, infrastructure or machinery. The majority of which is bought locally, their children go to school locally and play in local clubs, they shop locally, the majority of them help out in local community projects. If beef farming goes the knock on effects to employment will be felt all over the country, and that includes dublin.

That's the sad thing about the situation we find ourselves in.

It's a small country becoming increasingly urbanized with a consequent gap in understanding between the different communities.

Socially, environmentally and in terms of food security a viable rural economy is vital.

The blockades are not the answer but neither is letting the producers go to the wall while the processors and retailers profit.

Vizzy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Was it a protest?

No, just exercising my right to park

sbsquarepants

Snails pace wrote: »

This thread clearly shows the urban/rural divide.

Farms are being pushed to the brink, if agriculture goes in rural ireland, over a couple of years most rural towns will go into decline.
.

So what?

I'm not trying to be provocative or facetious buy the way, it's a genuine question.

Towns are not eternal beings, they grow sometimes, they shrink sometimes, sometimes they disappear altogether, sometimes new ones spring up out of nowhere. Shít happens. Such is life.

The only thing that's eternal in life grasshopper, is change!

gozunda

Vizzy wrote: »

No, just exercising my right to park

Or just being a contrarian for the hell of it?
And if you were blocking the farmer and the milk lorry - well he / she was hardly one of those at the protest eh?

Perhaps you should park up outside some random garda station next time to exercise your 'right' to park and see how you get on...

Bishop of hope

The only one probably pissed off would be the tanker driver, I'm sure they had a few pickups left to do, more or less the same as blockading factories and food depots
That's why I thanked his post, totally ironic

wrangler

gozunda wrote: »

Or just being a contrarian for the hell of it?
And if you were blocking the farmer and the milk lorry - well he / she was hardly one of those at the protest eh?

Perhaps you should park up outside some random garda station next time to exercise your 'right' to park and see how you get on...

Dubs don't know that, we're all branded now by them, I'd really wonder what percentage of farmers these protests are really representing

Vizzy

gozunda wrote: »

Or just being a contrarian for the hell of it?
And if you were blocking the farmer and the milk lorry - well he / she was hardly one of those at the protest eh?

Perhaps you should park up outside some random garda station next time to exercise your 'right' to park and see how you get on...

By that, I am assuming that you think I was parked illegally ?
I wasn't !!

If a Garda instructs me to move I certainly will do so, similar I'm sure, as all the farmers parked in tractors in Dublin or outside meat plants or food distributors would do.

I have no idea if the farmer was at the protest or not and couldn't care less TBH.
Although he has quite a few cattle too.

gozunda

Vizzy wrote: »

By that, I am assuming that you think I was parked illegally ?I wasn't !! If a Garda instructs me to move I certainly will do so, similar I'm sure, as all the farmers parked in tractors in Dublin or outside meat plants or food distributors would do. I have no idea if the farmer was at the protest or not and couldn't care less TBH.
Although he has quite a few cattle too.

This is what you claimed.

Vizzy wrote: »

Parked my car opposite the entrance to a farm this morning and a milk tanker could get out for a while ( well 4 hours).
Farmer wasn't impressed when I went back to collect the car.Funny that

I'm surprised you are driving considering your apparent lack of knowledge on the rules of the road?

It is prohibited to park

( g ) in any place, position or manner that will result in the vehicle obstructing an entrance or an exit for vehicles to or from a premises, save with the consent of the occupier of such premises;

See: S.I. No. 182/1997 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article36

The protestors may or may not be doing similar but I dont see any of them them pretending they are exercising their 'rights to park' or that it is legal to block anyone.

Picking on some farmer, because they happen to be a farmer (but who was not attending a protest on the basis you were aware that the farmer 'wasn't impressed') - just sounds like ignorance tbh.

Vizzy

gozunda wrote: »

This is what you claimed.



I'm surprised you are driving considering your apparent lack of knowledge on the rules of the road?

It is prohibited to park




See: S.I. No. 182/1997 - Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print#article36

The protestors may or may not be doing similar but I dont see any of them them pretending they are exercising their 'rights to park' or that it is legal to block anyone.

Picking on some farmer, because they happen to be a farmer but who was not attending a protest - just sounds like ignorance tbh.

I didn't realise that said farmer had a milk lorry attending his premises. The tanker driver got onto the premises(obviously) but because the farm entrance was not splayed, he could not exit.
As I said above, the farmer in question may or may not have attended the protest, and I care not a jot if he did or did not.


The protestors may or may not be doing similar but I dont see any of them them pretending they are exercising their 'rights to park' or that it is legal to block anyone

By this I presume you think that this is legal ?
https://img.rasset.ie/00131e30-614.jpg?ratio=1.78

BTW, do the rules of the road apply to farmers ?

elperello

Vizzy wrote: »

I didn't realise that said farmer had a milk lorry attending his premises. The tanker driver got onto the premises(obviously) but because the farm entrance was not splayed, he could not exit.
As I said above, the farmer in question may or may not have attended the protest, and I care not a jot if he did or did not.

BTW, do the rules of the road apply to farmers ?

Where are you going for the rest of the week?
Only fair to warn everyone

gozunda

Vizzy wrote: »

I didn't realise that said farmer had a milk lorry attending his premises. The tanker driver got onto the premises(obviously) but because the farm entrance was not splayed, he could not exit.
As I said above, the farmer in question may or may not have attended the protest, and I care not a jot if he did or did not.BTW, do the rules of the road apply to farmers ?

Yet you blocked egress and exit to the premises. Ok glad we cleared that up. The occupier would have been within his rights to report you.

Yes the rules of the road do apply to farmers- but as said - they unlike yourself, are not trying to claim they are either legally parked or exercising their rights 'to park' for any other reason than 'dont care'

At least what they are trying to achieve a fair price for their produce. But yeah fek them right?

Balf

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

The protest is in city centre dublin because that’s where the seat of govt for Ireland is and also it happens to be the same location for the dept of agriculture.

Protest going well?

wrangler

Balf wrote: »

Protest going well?

No......:D

wrangler

Copied and pasted off facebook this morning

Hi guys
Pencil in a date for your diaries for a trip for rural People to travel to Dublin on January 15/16 for a massive demonstration the like this country has never seen before to show our government that rural family farms won't disappear silently into the night this group have proven in November we are both compentant and capable of bringing people together so remember the date jan 15/16 bring tractors Jeep's or urself on foot to Dublin can people also like and share this post to get the word out and finally happy Christmas and a prosperous New year to everyone and rest assured that the organisers will work tirelessly to make this a success even if it is Christmas

elperello

What do they want?
When do they want it?

wrangler

elperello wrote: »

What do they want?
When do they want it?

More money..... same as everyone

Balf

wrangler wrote: »

Copied and pasted off facebook this morning

Hi guys
Pencil in a date for your diaries for a trip for rural People to travel to Dublin on January 15/16 for a massive demonstration the like this country has never seen before to show our government that rural family farms won't disappear silently into the night this group have proven in November we are both compentant and capable of bringing people together so remember the date jan 15/16 bring tractors Jeep's or urself on foot to Dublin can people also like and share this post to get the word out and finally happy Christmas and a prosperous New year to everyone and rest assured that the organisers will work tirelessly to make this a success even if it is Christmas

It will be interesting to see if this gets any support - who's to know?

There's a kind of shapeless sense of rural dissatisfaction. But nothing coherent, and nothing expressed that can actually be responded to or 'solved'. Government is going to spend literally billions on rural broadband, for instance. I don't get any sense of anyone really thinking that will change anything fundamental.

Beef prices aren't, in themselves, enough to mobilise rural Ireland. So if these folk do turn up it will be interesting to see what moves them. There were a few hints last time, like immigration and carbon tax. I actually don't think rural Ireland has the capacity to produce a political movement with coherent aims.

If a bunch of people turn up in January and wander around outside Leinster House, without seeming to know why they are there, will that be the end of it?

Bishop of hope

Balf wrote: »

It will be interesting to see if this gets any support - who's to know?

There's a kind of shapeless sense of rural dissatisfaction. But nothing coherent, and nothing expressed that can actually be responded to or 'solved'. Government is going to spend literally billions on rural broadband, for instance. I don't get any sense of anyone really thinking that will change anything fundamental.

Beef prices aren't, in themselves, enough to mobilise rural Ireland. So if these folk do turn up it will be interesting to see what moves them. There were a few hints last time, like immigration and carbon tax. I actually don't think rural Ireland has the capacity to produce a political movement with coherent aims.

If a bunch of people turn up in January and wander around outside Leinster House, without seeming to know why they are there, will that be the end of it?

This is probably just a beef price protest, it doesent seem to be mobilising or trying to mobilise as a radicle rural free for all movement and I think if it goes down that road it will not be of any use to beef farmers.
There are plenty of other movements trying to do that.
Despite that, rural voters are unhappy with the way everything seems to be being eroded and taken from them and in a general election that can and will sway the balance of power. So perhaps the Govt might just put on a bit of pressure for them regarding beef prices as a type of olive branch for some of the other stuff.
If they get nothing soon then it will be a big talking point in the run up to next year's election, and FG can't make any promises for the future if they are doing nothing now.

Balf

Bishop of hope wrote: »

This is probably just a beef price protest, it doesent seem to be mobilising or trying to mobilise as a radicle rural free for all movement and I think if it goes down that road it will not be of any use to beef farmers.
There are plenty of other movements trying to do that.
Despite that, rural voters are unhappy with the way everything seems to be being eroded and taken from them and in a general election that can and will sway the balance of power. So perhaps the Govt might just put on a bit of pressure for them regarding beef prices as a type of olive branch for some of the other stuff.
If they get nothing soon then it will be a big talking point in the run up to next year's election, and FG can't make any promises for the future if they are doing nothing now.

Sorry to be a pain, but you've basically just said that you think beef farmers don't give a toss about any wider concerns of rural people, but you hope other rural people will care greatly if beef farmers get a price increase.

Which, tbh, is exactly the deep sense of community we've come to expect in rural Ireland.

Bishop of hope

Balf wrote: »

Sorry to be a pain, but you've basically just said that you think beef farmers don't give a toss about any wider concerns of rural people, but you hope other rural people will care greatly if beef farmers get a price increase.

Which, tbh, is exactly the deep sense of community we've come to expect in rural Ireland.

I've said no such thing, nice try there though.
The beef protesters are probably as disgusted as everyone else about the erosion of rural services, but there's no point in bringing that to meat processors is there?
They want Govt and ministerial intercession on their behalf on that issue then that's the only issue they will assume to represent at their protests
There might be some other crowd prepared to bring a demonstration to Dublin about other issues and include farm prices in their protests, and maybe some or even a lot of farmers are prepared to join that as well, but the beef protest is about beef prices.

Balf

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I've said no such thing, nice try there though.
The beef protesters are probably as disgusted as everyone else about the erosion of rural services, but there's no point in bringing that to meat processors is there?
They want Govt and ministerial intercession on their behalf on that issue then that's the only issue they will assume to represent at their protests
There might be some other crowd prepared to bring a demonstration to Dublin about other issues and include farm prices in their protests, and maybe some or even a lot of farmers are prepared to join that as well, but the beef protest is about beef prices.

You did, though and you've basically just repeated it.

They're bringing their protest to Government, as you say, with the message that they don't care about anything other than beef prices. So screw all other rural issues, when they protest.

But other rural folk are more than welcome to campaign for higher beef prices for beef farmers, too.

Just don't expect the beef farmers to give a toss about any wider rural issues, or lift a finger to express any support.

Are they blinkered or just stupid?

Bishop of hope

Balf wrote: »

You did, though and you've basically just repeated it.

They're bringing their protest to Government, as you say, with the message that they don't care about anything other than beef prices. So screw all other rural issues, when they protest.

But other rural folk are more than welcome to campaign for higher beef prices for beef farmers, too.

Just don't expect the beef farmers to give a toss about any wider rural issues, or lift a finger to express any support.

Are they blinkered or just stupid?

Lol, same question, same answer.

Have a merry Xmas now!

MrMusician18

Bishop of hope wrote: »

This is probably just a beef price protest, it doesent seem to be mobilising or trying to mobilise as a radicle rural free for all movement and I think if it goes down that road it will not be of any use to beef farmers.
There are plenty of other movements trying to do that.
Despite that, rural voters are unhappy with the way everything seems to be being eroded and taken from them and in a general election that can and will sway the balance of power. So perhaps the Govt might just put on a bit of pressure for them regarding beef prices as a type of olive branch for some of the other stuff.
If they get nothing soon then it will be a big talking point in the run up to next year's election, and FG can't make any promises for the future if they are doing nothing now.

Can you identify what exactly is being taken from rural Ireland, what is being eroded? I keep hearing that rural Ireland is dying, yet I look at the statistics and see that the rural population is rising.

What is going on?

sbsquarepants

Did any of our farming brethren happen to catch the show on channel 4 last night, Apocalypse Cow?

Some very interesting viewing regarding the incredible amount of damage the farming industry does to the earth and how woefully inefficient it is.

For example 50% of the land of the UK is given over to rearing and grazing animals which account for 1% of calories consumed (1% figure sounds a bit low to me but that's what they quoted)

Worldwide 50% of crops go to feeding animals. The damage being done to the soil and waterways is incredible and we are effectively paying people to do this. They reckon the carbon footprint of 4KG of beef is the same as a return flight to New York.

One ray of hope is that there is some really impressive looking technology coming down the tracks which hopefully means farmings days are drawing to an end.

Sooner the better if you ask me!

Bishop of hope

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Did any of our farming brethren happen to catch the show on channel 4 last night, Apocalypse Cow?

Some very interesting viewing regarding the incredible amount of damage the farming industry does to the earth and how woefully inefficient it is.

For example 50% of the land of the UK is given over to rearing and grazing animals which account for 1% of calories consumed (1% figure sounds a bit low to me but that's what they quoted)

Worldwide 50% of crops go to feeding animals. The damage being done to the soil and waterways is incredible and we are effectively paying people to do this. They reckon the carbon footprint of 4KG of beef is the same as a return flight to New York.

One ray of hope is that there is some really impressive looking technology coming down the tracks which hopefully means farmings days are drawing to an end.

Sooner the better if you ask me!

You're dillusional.

sbsquarepants

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You're dillusional.

Quite possibly....but even so could you elaborate a little?

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Did any of our farming brethren happen to catch the show on channel 4 last night, Apocalypse Cow?

Some very interesting viewing regarding the incredible amount of damage the farming industry does to the earth and how woefully inefficient it is.

For example 50% of the land of the UK is given over to rearing and grazing animals which account for 1% of calories consumed (1% figure sounds a bit low to me but that's what they quoted)

Worldwide 50% of crops go to feeding animals. The damage being done to the soil and waterways is incredible and we are effectively paying people to do this. They reckon the carbon footprint of 4KG of beef is the same as a return flight to New York.

One ray of hope is that there is some really impressive looking technology coming down the tracks which hopefully means farmings days are drawing to an end.

Sooner the better if you ask me!

Where do they dump all the uneaten beef?

sbsquarepants

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where do they dump all the uneaten beef?

I'm not sure what you mean, what uneaten beef?

FrancieBrady

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean, what uneaten beef?

What was the point of the programme? Do away with farming or become more efficient at it?

jmayo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Did any of our farming brethren happen to catch the show on channel 4 last night, Apocalypse Cow?

Some very interesting viewing regarding the incredible amount of damage the farming industry does to the earth and how woefully inefficient it is.

For example 50% of the land of the UK is given over to rearing and grazing animals which account for 1% of calories consumed (1% figure sounds a bit low to me but that's what they quoted)

Well the UK can't produce enough food to feed themselves so that is why they have import loads of stuff from the likes of us here in Ireland.

According to government statistics they only produce 50% of the food they use, 30% comes from EU and a big chunk of that is us.

Red meat production (beef) shows a downward spiral for decades and part of this dates back to the mad cow disease and the ban on British beef.

In 2017 UK imported way more than it exports across all food groups (cereals, fruit & veg, meat, dairy& eggs, fish) apart from beverages and part of that is down to exports of scotch whisky.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Worldwide 50% of crops go to feeding animals. The damage being done to the soil and waterways is incredible and we are effectively paying people to do this. They reckon the carbon footprint of 4KG of beef is the same as a return flight to New York.

One ray of hope is that there is some really impressive looking technology coming down the tracks which hopefully means farmings days are drawing to an end.

Sooner the better if you ask me!

So WTF will people eat ?
Our cereal production in this part of the world is nowhere near reliable enough to feed people if they move away from say meat.
Also cereal and crop production in some parts of the world are doing untold damage to the soil and environment.
See decreasing soil health and rapidly shrinking ground water sources in the US.

Do you propose feedlots for beef.
They actually fatten cattle a lot quicker meaning less emissions and less feed wastage, but they are not so liked by animal rights and they use a hell of a lot of drugs.

Do you propose people stop eating dairy products ?
In which case where do you think we will source all the soya replacements ?

For every numpty that wants to stick it to your normal European farming, they refuse to acknowledge that lots of the replacements will have to come from developing and third world countries and probably from even less environmentally friendly operations.

There is always going to be need for farming, unless you have some sort of Star Trek type food replicator that none of us know about. :rolleyes:

Bishop of hope

jmayo wrote: »

Well the UK can't produce enough food to feed themselves so that is why they have import loads of stuff from the likes of us here in Ireland.

According to government statistics they only produce 50% of the food they use, 30% comes from EU and a big chunk of that is us.

Red meat production (beef) shows a downward spiral for decades and part of this dates back to the mad cow disease and the ban on British beef.

In 2017 UK imported way more than it exports across all food groups (cereals, fruit & veg, meat, dairy& eggs, fish) apart from beverages and part of that is down to exports of scotch whisky.



So WTF will people eat ?
Our cereal production in this part of the world is nowhere near reliable enough to feed people if they move away from say meat.
Also cereal and crop production in some parts of the world are doing untold damage to the soil and environment.
See decreasing soil health and rapidly shrinking ground water sources in the US.

Do you propose feedlots for beef.
They actually fatten cattle a lot quicker meaning less emissions and less feed wastage, but they are not so liked by animal rights and they use a hell of a lot of drugs.

Do you propose people stop eating dairy products ?
In which case where do you think we will source all the soya replacements ?

For every numpty that wants to stick it to your normal European farming, they refuse to acknowledge that lots of the replacements will have to come from developing and third world countries and probably from even less environmentally friendly operations.

There is always going to be need for farming, unless you have some sort of Star Trek type food replicator that none of us know about. :rolleyes:

I think they can clone beef now, grow it in a test-tube or something.
But farming is actually increasing and looks set to continue to grow.

Millionaire only not

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Did any of our farming brethren happen to catch the show on channel 4 last night, Apocalypse Cow?

Some very interesting viewing regarding the incredible amount of damage the farming industry does to the earth and how woefully inefficient it is.

For example 50% of the land of the UK is given over to rearing and grazing animals which account for 1% of calories consumed (1% figure sounds a bit low to me but that's what they quoted)

Worldwide 50% of crops go to feeding animals. The damage being done to the soil and waterways is incredible and we are effectively paying people to do this. They reckon the carbon footprint of 4KG of beef is the same as a return flight to New York.

One ray of hope is that there is some really impressive looking technology coming down the tracks which hopefully means farmings days are drawing to an end.

Sooner the better if you ask me!

Hope u starve !

Thelonious Monk

sbsquarepants wrote: »

For example 50% of the land of the UK is given over to rearing and grazing animals which account for 1% of calories consumed (1% figure sounds a bit low to me but that's what they quoted)

I think he was talking about sheep.
"23m sheep occupy much of the UK. Well, they provide just over 1% of our food, in terms of calories.”

Total av consumption of lamb + mutton in UK is 5.0kg per person per year or 1% of calories.
Yet sheep are the reason there are no trees on our uplands here and in Britain.

Thelonious Monk

You can grow many types of veg in Ireland. 40% of Irish Veg is grown in North County Dublin alone. It just shows how much land is given to cows that are exported.

sbsquarepants

jmayo wrote: »

So WTF will people eat ?

The technology coming is growing microbes in factories to produce food.
In the show they grew these microbes to produce a protein rich flour which they used to make pancakes. But similar processes could be used to make all manner of foodstuffs.

Factory grown meat from stem cells is coming too. Mass produceable meat without the need to rear and kill animals. All that land used to grow food crops for animals can then be used for growing human food, but we wouldn't need anything like all of it, so the rest could go back to rebuilding the biodiversity farming has destroyed and is destroying all around the globe, trees to suck up carbon etc.

jmayo wrote: »

Our cereal production in this part of the world is nowhere near reliable enough to feed people if they move away from say meat.
Also cereal and crop production in some parts of the world are doing untold damage to the soil and environment.
See decreasing soil health and rapidly shrinking ground water sources in the US.

The need to grow anything for food, could be all but done away with.

jmayo wrote: »

Do you propose feedlots for beef.
They actually fatten cattle a lot quicker meaning less emissions and less feed wastage, but they are not so liked by animal rights and they use a hell of a lot of drugs.

As above, factory produced, doesn't need feeding. Still needs raw materials obviously but only a tiny fraction of what an actual animal would require and not producing all those green house gases and toxic waste products.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you propose people stop eating dairy products ?
In which case where do you think we will source all the soya replacements ?

I'm not sure if it mentioned anything about milk, i missed about 15mins of the show.

jmayo wrote: »

For every numpty that wants to stick it to your normal European farming, they refuse to acknowledge that lots of the replacements will have to come from developing and third world countries and probably from even less environmentally friendly operations.

There is always going to be need for farming, unless you have some sort of Star Trek type food replicator that none of us know about. :rolleyes:

Not quite a replicator, but food available in unimaginable quantities virtually pollution free and only requiring negligible land area.

It is really impressive technology - could literally change the face of the world.

You should check out the program, it's well worth a watch.

It honestly does look to me like farmings day's could be numbered, obviously there will always be some sort of farming but on nothing approaching the scale we see today, and i think that can only be a good thing.

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Hope u starve !

Lovely.

I won't though;)

Thelonious Monk

To answer Francie's question about soya - Ninety eight percent of soybean meal is used for animal feed (poultry, pigs and cattle mostly) and only one percent is used to produce food for people. So we'd have plenty of leftover soya if it's soya milk you're after!