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The Farming Protest @ Dublin City Centre
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sbsquarepants wrote: »The technology coming is growing microbes in factories to produce food.
In the show they grew these microbes to produce a protein rich flour which they used to make pancakes. But similar processes could be used to make all manner of foodstuffs.
Factory grown meat from stem cells is coming too. Mass produceable meat without the need to rear and kill animals. All that land used to grow food crops for animals can then be used for growing human food, but we wouldn't need anything like all of it, so the rest could go back to rebuilding the biodiversity farming has destroyed and is destroying all around the globe, trees to suck up carbon etc.
Wipeee more Monsantos.
Ever see how they operate?
Do you actually know that farming can also help biodiversity, or at least more old style non industrialised farming.
Some people do not realise that most or our environment has been tailored by man over centuries, hell millenia.
Or are you one of the ones chomping at the bit to re-introduce the wolves to our soon to be burgeoning wildernesses.
sbsquarepants wrote: »It honestly does look to me like farmings day's could be numbered, obviously there will always be some sort of farming but on nothing approaching the scale we see today, and i think that can only be a good thing.
Ah yes lets see the end of our only true indigenous industry and large scale employer.
Yet another one that actually believes how great we are with all our foreign multinationals here because of tax write offs.
This utopian meat from a petri dish is going to cost, there is always a cost.I am not allowed discuss …
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Wipeee more Monsantos.
Ever see how they operate?
Do you actually know that farming can also help biodiversity, or at least more old style non industrialised farming.
I'll take your point on monsanto! But apart from that you're having a laugh surely. Farming does nothing to support biodiversity!Or are you one of the ones chomping at the bit to re-introduce the wolves to our soon to be burgeoning wildernesses.
I'd love to see wolves reintroduced. Biodiversity, remember!Ah yes lets see the end of our only true indigenous industry and large scale employer.
Yet another one that actually believes how great we are with all our foreign multinationals here because of tax write offs..
These days farming at all on this island only exists because tax payers pay to keep it afloat. Tax payers like those multinationals and the people who work for them!This utopian meat from a petri dish is going to cost, there is always a cost.
Of course there will be a cost, at the moment though i see nothing to suggest it won't be considerably less than the one we are currently paying, either financially or environmentally.He is also seriously missing a few fruit loops. He once tried to carry out a citizen's arrest of John Bolton, a former US ambassador to the United Nations, when the latter attended the a literary Festival in tte UK. A voice of reason he is not.
Ha ha, i'll have to read up on him. I'd never heard of him before the show, still haven't had a chance to watch it properly.That's the thing - some of the most extensive and harmful impacts of food production globally has taken place in areas like the Amazon in order to grow soy for soy oil production and in the far east for palm oil cultivation. And yet again and again that's never mentioned - just the old 'meat thou' argument beloved of the extreme plant advocates. And Im not saying cattle rearing there is a good thing - it's not - but neither is cropping or any ongoing deforestation.
A lot of which is going to produce animal feed (was Georges argument anyway?)Wildlife in the UK and Ireland are adapted to landscapes which evolved with human use many centuries ago. The Lake Distict is a case in point. Take a look at the link about grazing and wildlife in those areas and how it supports diversity.
I think you could be on thin ice with that, it's kind of like arguing that you make some change that only half the wildlife can survive and then saying the remaining ones are perfectly adapted to it, when they are really just the lucky ones. They aren't adapted per se, they were just fortunate in that they could tolerate the change.Well there you have it! What drives intensity of production? There are more people on the planet than ever and yet there is no shortage of food. Where there is hunger it is been mainly driven by corruption and inequality. As a sector agticulture and food production has become more vastly more efficient over the past century.
Agree entirely about famine etc usually being a political problem, and yes we have enormously upped the output from farming since WW2 say - but at what environmental cost to the planet?Nah that's ok. But yes It is what he is saying is bollox and it's not just me saying that btw
As detailed in the article - it is being claimed that 4lbs of beef are the equivalent with regard to carbon footprint - to a one way flight to New York
Per passenger, a one-way flight from NYC to London causes 1,980 lbs (898 kg) of CO2 equivalent emissions.
In the article it states that U.S. beef produces "22 kg of CO2 equivalent emissions per kg. Thus, 4 pounds of U.S. beef would result in approximately 40 kg of emissions, less than 1/20th of the emissions per passenger of the plane ride in question"
So a flight to New York well exceeds the carbon footprint of 4lbs of beef. The figures just dont add up.
In Ireland it is estimated that beef produces about 19kgs of carbon per kg of beef (compared with an EU average of 22kgs) so it's even less!
You are right though the figures and 'facts' he uses are indeed misleading and I would add - absolute cow manure. .
It seems like Georgie boy has been using statistics quite selectively shall we say (as are you:D) But if the global figure is correct (I don't know enough about it to say it is or it isn't), then the figure from this tiny little rock would be fairly meaningless do you not think?0 -
sbsquarepants wrote: »Ha ha, i'll have to read up on him. I'd never heard of him before the show, still haven't had a chance to watch it properly.
Do - as I said an extreme vegan preaching about agriculture is little better than the pope preaching about contraception!sbsquarepants wrote: »A lot of which is going to produce animal feed (was Georges argument anyway?)
Haha George again :rolleyes: Again what George is claiming is bolllox. The bulk of supplementary fees fed to animals comes from the waste and byproducts of the human food industry. Not just me saying that btw. That comes from the UN based Food and Agricultural Organisation.sbsquarepants wrote: »I think you could be on thin ice with that, it's kind of like arguing that you make some change that only half the wildlife can survive and then saying the remaining ones are perfectly adapted to it, when they are really just the lucky ones. They aren't adapted per se, they were just fortunate in that they could tolerate the change.
Again not my argument. That is the current ecological viewpoint. The wildlife we have now are adapted to our landscapes. Protecting and conserving that wildlife is part of our responsibilities. And not only have some animals adapted- some are thriving but yes some are in decline due to changing practises. That said the huge increase in human population is putting significant pressures on wildlife habitats globally.sbsquarepants wrote: »Agree entirely about famine etc usually being a political problem, and yes we have enormously upped the output from farming since WW2 say - but at what environmental cost to the planet?
Well we can cull people and not feed them I suppose. In Ireland we have gone from a country where famine was rife less than 200 years ago to being a net food producer.
Important to bear in mind here that the largest ghg emissions globally are as a result of fossil fuel use in the transport and energy sectors. In Ireland for example emissions from transport alone have increased 37% since 1990 whilst emissions related to agriculture have increased by approx 1%.sbsquarepants wrote: »It seems like Georgie boy has been using statistics quite selectively shall we say (as are you:D) But if the global figure is correct (I don't know enough about it to say it is or it isn't), then the figure from this tiny little rock would be fairly meaningless do you not think?
The thing is I took a look at the actual figures available. And tbh I cannot find where this supposed 'global' figure comes from with the EU and US figures being the same. But hey sure we can ban flying and beef as well - that should certainly help along with the necessary culling obviously (joke).
I see you support the reintroduction of the wolf along with the (looney) greens haha. Looking at the history of the wolf here - they were killed off largely as a result the bounty placed on their heads by the English government of the time. The greens also want to double the human population here. From a carbon footprint thing - I'm not sure how thats going to work out - maybe could start feeding people to the wolves. I guess George would like that
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I see you support the reintroduction of the wolf along with the (looney) greens haha. Looking at the history of the wolf here - they were killed off largely as a result the bounty placed on their heads by the English government of the time. The greens also want to double the human population here. From a carbon footprint thing - I'm not sure how thats going to work out - maybe could start feeding people to the wolves. I guess George would like that
So would the wolves i suppose:D
Bit of a tangent, but i think there's very little reason to not reintroduce them - apart from the usual gobshítes looking to be paid for the inconvenience! Wolves are part of the natural ecology of the country, they belong here for want of a better phrase.
Plus they are just fascinating enigmatic animals, they'd be cool to have wandering about the place, do you not think?
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sbsquarepants wrote: »So would the wolves i suppose:D
Bit of a tangent, but i think there's very little reason to not reintroduce them - apart from the usual gobshítes looking to be paid for the inconvenience! Wolves are part of the natural ecology of the country, they belong here for want of a better phrase.
Plus they are just fascinating enigmatic animals, they'd be cool to have wandering about the place, do you not think?
People, in the volumes that exist, do not belong in the countryside. Cities don't belong on the periphery of the countryside.
Where does this stuff stop?
What we need to do is evolve harmony between how we want to live and maintaining a healthy planet. Urbanisation and industrialisation would be the first thing to tackle in trying to achieve that imo.0 -
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Thelonious Monk wrote: »It'll never happen in Ireland because we have no wilderness, it's a giant cattle farm really, and you can't throw a stone without hitting a one off house. Wolves have been spotted in Belgium recently, which you would think is a far more domesticated land than Ireland, but no it has more than double the forest cover of Ireland and probably proper planning laws in place. Just shows what an absolute mess the Irish "countryside" is.
Great you got to have a dig at farmers and rural dwellers.
You really do hate rural Ireland don't you.
One of the things you are conveniently failing to mention is the wolves in Belgium are usually sighted in forested areas bordering other countries.
A lot of Irish people don't seem to grasp the size of forests in other countries, Europe included, and how they interlink across national boundaries.
Actually one area that allowed spread of wildlife through many countries was the old iron curtain border between the East and West.
It had created a wild corridor where there was no human interference.
Not sure what happened to this on the fall of The Wall.
And yes you are right we don't have the wilderness and we haven't for the last couple of centuries.
The proponents can spew all the shyte about reintroduction of wolves in Yellowstone, but what they usually fail to mention is Yellowstone is equivalent in size to say Mayo+Sligo+Leitrim or Wicklow+Wexford+Carlow+Kilkenny+Laois.
The only areas of major national parkland are either in Kerry or Wicklow.
The plus of Wicklow is the starving wolves can migrate into South Dublin and get rid or all the morons proposing this.
I am not allowed discuss …
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sbsquarepants wrote: »I think the reality is if we ever did get round to doing it our welly wearing compatriots would just shoot them or poison them, similar to what we've seen happen with the reintroduction birds of prey.
Guardians of the country side my arse!
Many European countries can do it, we can't. Like most things.0 -
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Thelonious Monk wrote: »I hate that we've given our entire country to beef and dairy, yes. Would be nice to have some wildlife and trees etc.
Yes there are corridors of forests etc around Europe that allow for this to happen with wolves. I don't think anyone actually believes there will ever be wolves in Ireland though. Packs of rabid wild dogs after the coming climate Armageddon perhaps.
Actually I can remember the more old school farming where you could hear corncrakes in summer, curlews in the bogs while saving turf, etc.
The problem with the way farming has gone, all due to economies of scale and such, is that grass is force fed with fertiliser, meadows are not allowed last as long as not been kept for hay, but multiple cuts of silage.
And yes I damn well know well the reason for silage is apart form one summer in twenty the weather is not there to save hay.
A lot of posters around here want small farmers to adopt the purely economic model like other businsses and sell up, which will surely lead to more and more industrialised farming.
Also if people think that getting rid of diary and beef will mean some huge resurgence of biodiversity have another thing coming.
Cereal and horticulture farming is intensive and requiring lots of pesticides and insecticides to help guarantee yields.sbsquarepants wrote: »Why so?
There is far too much of ireland given over to farming, but we do still have some wilderness (most obviously the 2 areas you mention but other areas also) No reason whatsoever why wolves couldn't thrive there - they are after all native to the bloody place and were hunted to extinction. (EDIT - Just looked up their areas and they are all bit on the small size:(, would need a fair bit of management for wolf packs to remain viable. But then again it's not like the fúcking cows look after themselves is it!)
:rolleyes::rolleyes:
FFS would you stop showing your ignorance.
Wolves roam by their very nature.
Do you have any idea how much they can roam ?
Interesting snippet I found was that wolf found in Flanders in Belgium was found through it's radio collar to have come through Netherlands from Germany and had covered 500km in 10 days.
Remind us again how big Ireland is. :rolleyes:
When they lasted truly existed here there were huge amounts of forestry and way way less people.
Even if you stopped farming in areas, do you propose forced movement of people ala Stalin ?
Even if you and your ilk had their way and removed one off rural housing, there are villages of numerous houses not much more than say every 3 or 4 miles of each other around most of the country, bar a few desolate places in the west or likes of Kerry.
And yes that village density includes most of Wicklow as Wicklow National park can be crossed either way in less than a day on foot.Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
Many European countries can do it, we can't. Like most things.
I see Geography wasn't your strong suit in school.
A few hundred tractors strategically placed around the city can bring Dublin and it's anti rural folks to a complete standstill.
If Irish farmers learn from the French, rural politicians will start getting very uneasy.I am not allowed discuss …
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Thelonious Monk wrote: »When are our Heroes coming to Dublin then? I'll take a walk down to look at their mutton heads at lunch, maybe hand out a few soy lattes to keep them going.
If you ask them they might let you hold one end of a banner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ7mRq0L5nY0 -
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