The Farming Protest @ Dublin City Centre

Millionaire only not

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Ah stop 2 years work against animal processed in 15 mins !
We have standards to meet as well , from breeding to medicine, hygiene

welcome to "having a job"

riemann

Rashers Big Log wrote: »

I’ve made a personal commitment, based on last night and today to not buy beef for at least the next two weeks for my family. The road runs two ways lads!

Oh no, thats another 5c off the base price

realdanbreen

Rashers Big Log wrote: »

I’ve made a personal commitment, based on last night and today to not buy beef for at least the next two weeks for my family. The road runs two ways lads!

Oh no!:eek:

MrAbyss

BOYCOTT IRISH BEEF

Two Way Boreen Buckos.

realdanbreen

Where am I going to get a good feed at dinnertime?
The traffic is absolute s**t, is it always this bad?

sbsquarepants

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I’m not 100 % for the protest , but what can they do u have no idea how abused farmers are by state agencies

Think of any object in your house / farm anything in the entire world.

Now put that thing up for sale - what determines the sale price?

You wanted 50k for your grannies favourite armchair, but you only got offered 50 quid. You have not been abused by anyone - you have experienced the free market in all it's glory - whatever you're selling is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay, it doesn't matter how much effort you've put in to it, or how vital you view your grannies armchair to be to the world at large.

The only thing that matters is what the buyer is willing and able to pay. The choice you have is sell or don't sell.

There is no 3rd option to stamp your feet and scream and scream and scream untill the government forces someone to pay what you would like.

That's reality, not abuse

memyself33

Deleted User wrote: »

So, the solution is.....what? A minimum price to be paid to the farmers per kg of beef, which is passed onto the consumers and the big boys make even more money?

If I was a meat processor and I had the market by the balls (as is the implication here), and the farmers were out demanding that I be allowed charge more and that the public should expect to PAY more, I'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

It seems to me like the farmers are doing all their dirty work for them.

You do realize we pay some of the highest prices for meat in the EU? This arrangement isn't benefiting consumers at all as it stands.

Who is getting the lions share of this?

Slattsy

realdanbreen wrote: »

Where am I going to get a good feed at dinnertime?
The traffic is absolute s**t, is it always this bad?

Ah give over. You're at home in your parents box room ffs.

MrAbyss

The Dublin Metro - through its various guises - has been cancelled since 1973 and today Dublin is the 5th most congested city in Europe even without the 180k John Deere tractors.

Yet a blank cheque for the 'poor farmer's' Rural Broad Band so they can stream Netflix faster...no problem.

kennethsmyth

Robson99 wrote: »

Can they stop it ??

The tractors will get burnt out in some areas :rolleyes:

Boggles

MrAbyss wrote: »

Yet a blank cheque for the 'poor farmer's' Rural Broad Band so they can stream Netflix faster...no problem.

Yeah, everyone that doesn't live near you is a farmer. Fact.

memyself33

memyself33 wrote: »

You do realize we pay some of the highest prices for meat in the EU? This arrangement isn't benefiting consumers at all as it stands.

Who is getting the lions share of this?

and yet.....

mariaalice wrote: »

Even someone with half a brain knowes that buying two ribeye steaks or striploins steaks for 5.29 in Alid or Lidl, means someone is loosing out somewere along the line.

Which is it?

Millionaire only not

[Deleted User] wrote: »

enlighten us all about what we "have no idea about"

tell us some form of "abuse" suffered by farmers at the hands of state agencies that amount to anything we wouldn't roll our eyes at.

Just 2 simply ones so
On farm inspection - u get 24 hours notice , no excuses hospital bed death bed inspection goes ahead
Range of fines from 10-100% for any faults found some which are minor

Bord bia is put in place at farmers expense to market Irish produce mainly beef
However it has been exposed beef in France Belgium and uk are being stamped with bord bia approval !
It is near fact u could not guarantee a carcase was not Irish bar it was killed and processed here in this country !
Abp continue to import lorry loads of beef from Poland and process it here under the nose of dept of agriculture !
Exporting Irish carcasses processed in other country’s and importing foreign ones!
Can u not see the corruption that goes on!

It’s going on with decades from meat into intervention , processed during the day .
Fridges opened at night good meat taken out replaced with bones etc
All back handers from dept to workers .(seals on fridge would have to be tampered with for this to happen )

Apologies for my grammar

JohnnyFlash

I was up town yesterday and bumped into these buckos. Are we dealing with the lunatic fringe of the farming movement here? Noted a few Renua hi-viz jackets, badly put together banners and posters, a demented looking woman on a trailer being recorded on a phone by a slack jawed yokel who I presume was her son, and a slightly hostile atmosphere.

Wouldn’t be like other farmer protests I’ve seen, which are usually exceptionally professional and well organised.

sbsquarepants

That's your "abuse" - you're expected to stick to the minimum standards even if you don't feel well?

Are you for real?

You expect sympathy for this shíte!

EmmetSpiceland

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Wouldn’t be like other farmer protests I’ve seen, which are usually exceptionally professional and well organised.

That’s right, J, they usually bring the slurry “spreader”.

riemann

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You wanted 50k for your grannies favourite armchair, but you only got offered 50 quid. You have not been abused by anyone - you have experienced the free market in all it's glory - whatever you're selling is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay, it doesn't matter how much effort you've put in to it, or how vital you view your grannies armchair to be to the world at large.

The only thing that matters is what the buyer is willing and able to pay. The choice you have is sell or don't sell.

There is no 3rd option to stamp your feet and scream and scream and scream untill the government forces someone to pay what you would like.

So heres a rundown since it's not quite as simple as you make it out (not exactly a free market).

Keeping the chair analogy.

What happens in Ireland is the chair can only be bought by registered chair buyers.
3 people control 90% of the chair market, and 1 person controls 100% of the final processing stage, and won't collect from anyone who steps out of line and offers a price above the base price which definitely hasn't been set via collusion.

So essentially you have one person who controls the price you will be offered.

To add to this, it has been decided that the chair has to be sold before it is 30 months old. So essentially its a take it or leave it offer, knowing that you have a narrow window to make the sale, of else you will be told no we don't want it. A very simple way of controlling the supply.

Further to this the chairs produced in Ireland are of the highest quality in the world, all natural wood no synthetic glues or fibres. Now we are told that it's perfectly fine to import chairs from South America (ie half way around the world) full of synthetic glues, rusty nails etc, which are cheaper to produce than Irish chairs as they are burning down rainforests (free land).

So as you can see it's not as simple as you might like it to be.

Millionaire only not

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Think of any object in your house / farm anything in the entire world.

Now put that thing up for sale - what determines the sale price?

You wanted 50k for your grannies favourite armchair, but you only got offered 50 quid. You have not been abused by anyone - you have experienced the free market in all it's glory - whatever you're selling is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay, it doesn't matter how much effort you've put in to it, or how vital you view your grannies armchair to be to the world at large.

The only thing that matters is what the buyer is willing and able to pay. The choice you have is sell or don't sell.

There is no 3rd option to stamp your feet and scream and scream and scream untill the government forces someone to pay what you would like.

That's reality, not abuse

Unfortunately animals start losing value at 18 months 24 months over 36 months .

Another useless producer / consumer law brought in for only one reason , pay less for meat to primary producer .

We are faced with these rules no consultation .

Millionaire only not

sbsquarepants wrote: »

That's your "abuse" - you're expected to stick to the minimum standards even if you don't feel well?

Are you for real?

You expect sympathy for this shíte!

The standards are not the problem , it’s end product price

Yurt2

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Unfortunately animals start losing value at 18 months 24 months over 36 months .

Another useless producer / consumer law brought in for only one reason , pay less for meat to primary producer .

We are faced with these rules no consultation .

Many international markets won't accept beef from cattle over 30 months. Irish beef going to China for instance (and until recently Japan). Not a processor conspiracy at all.

Unless we believe the Chinese Agriculture Ministry is out to get the plain honest beef farmer of Ireland.

sbsquarepants

riemann wrote: »

So heres a rundown since it's not quite as simple as you make it out (not exactly a free market).

Keeping the chair analogy.

What happens in Ireland is the chair can only be bought by registered chair buyers.
3 people control 90% of the chair market, and 1 person controls 100% of the final processing stage, and won't collect from anyone who steps out of line and offers a price above the base price which definitely hasn't been set via collusion.

So essentially you have one person who controls the price you will be offered.

To add to this, it has been decided that the chair has to be sold before it is 30 months old. So essentially its a take it or leave it offer, knowing that you have a narrow window to make the sale, of else you will be told no we don't want it. A very simple way of controlling the supply.

Further to this the chairs produced in Ireland are of the highest quality in the world, all natural wood no synthetic glues or fibres. Now we are told that it's perfectly fine to import chairs from South America (ie half way around the world) full of synthetic glues, rusty nails etc, which are cheaper to produce than Irish chairs as they are burning down rainforests (free land).

So as you can see it's not as simple as you might like it to be.

Why go into the chair game so? Why not make windows instead?

I used to make windows - none of that shít happened. You made them, you sold them to whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted, for as much as you wanted.

The only snag was the other person had to agree to all those things, if they cost more to make than you could sell them for, you just lost money....simple!

riemann

Yurt! wrote: »

Many international markets won't accept beef from cattle over 30 months. Irish beef going to China for instance (and until recently Japan). Not a processor conspiracy at all.

Eh yes it is, it's in the retailers interest to keep this unnecessary restriction on supply to drive the price down.

If you knew anything about beef you would know this was a legacy from the BSE scare and the scientific community have came out and stated it was no longer necessary.

Millionaire only not

Ye all have good points made !
The farmers grievance is a fair share between producer , processor and supermarkets !
Nothing more nothing less !

The rest we can live with

Yurt2

riemann wrote: »

Eh yes it is, it's in the retailers interest to keep this unnecessary restriction on supply to drive the price down.

If you knew anything about beef you would know this was a legacy from the BSE scare and the scientific community have came out and stated it was no longer necessary.

Talk to the Chinese Agriculture Ministry about it (and the other countries that have that regulation).

vicwatson

Collie D wrote: »

This rural v urban thing is nonsense. What do you think the average citizen of Dublin can or should do? We’re not out to get you ffs

Most Dubliners live outside Dublin anyway nowadays

VinLieger

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Ye all have good points made !
The farmers grievance is a fair share between producer , processor and supermarkets !
Nothing more nothing less !

The rest we can live with

Then why the fvck are they blocking up the streets of Dublin to talk to the minister if as you say the problem has nothing to do with him or the people of Dublin.

riemann

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why go into the chair game so? Why not make windows instead?

I used to make windows - none of that shít happened. You made them, you sold them to whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted, for as much as you wanted.

The only snag was the other person had to agree to all those things, if they cost more to make than you could sell them for, you just lost money....simple!

Unfortunately when you have invested in equipment for making chairs, your land only produces raw materials for making chairs, it isn't quite straightforward to just change.

The world is quite complicated, not as simple as you might like it to be.

Brock Turnpike

Have they left yet?

Boggles

VinLieger wrote: »

Then why the fvck are they blocking up the streets of Dublin to talk to the minister if as you say the problem has nothing to do with him or the people of Dublin.

The Minister works there.

I imagine blocking a boreen in Kerry wouldn't be an effective enough protest.

Millionaire only not

riemann wrote: »

So heres a rundown since it's not quite as simple as you make it out (not exactly a free market).

Keeping the chair analogy.

What happens in Ireland is the chair can only be bought by registered chair buyers.
3 people control 90% of the chair market, and 1 person controls 100% of the final processing stage, and won't collect from anyone who steps out of line and offers a price above the base price which definitely hasn't been set via collusion.

So essentially you have one person who controls the price you will be offered.

To add to this, it has been decided that the chair has to be sold before it is 30 months old. So essentially its a take it or leave it offer, knowing that you have a narrow window to make the sale, of else you will be told no we don't want it. A very simple way of controlling the supply.

Further to this the chairs produced in Ireland are of the highest quality in the world, all natural wood no synthetic glues or fibres. Now we are told that it's perfectly fine to import chairs from South America (ie half way around the world) full of synthetic glues, rusty nails etc, which are cheaper to produce than Irish chairs as they are burning down rainforests (free land).

So as you can see it's not as simple as you might like it to be.

I like the chair anology
Just to add that 1 person that controls owns only 40% of chair manufacturing but controls all the waste from every factory making chairs and can only give it to him !

He dictates the price of all chairs or ur waste won’t be collected!

This was brought in under simon Coveney

Millionaire only not

VinLieger wrote: »

Then why the fvck are they blocking up the streets of Dublin to talk to the minister if as you say the problem has nothing to do with him or the people of Dublin.

Why are u saying we should pull him out of Louth and take the law into our own hands ?
Don’t u know we’d be breaking the law !

memyself33

riemann wrote: »

So heres a rundown since it's not quite as simple as you make it out (not exactly a free market).

Keeping the chair analogy.

What happens in Ireland is the chair can only be bought by registered chair buyers.
3 people control 90% of the chair market, and 1 person controls 100% of the final processing stage, and won't collect from anyone who steps out of line and offers a price above the base price which definitely hasn't been set via collusion.

So essentially you have one person who controls the price you will be offered.

To add to this, it has been decided that the chair has to be sold before it is 30 months old. So essentially its a take it or leave it offer, knowing that you have a narrow window to make the sale, of else you will be told no we don't want it. A very simple way of controlling the supply.

Further to this the chairs produced in Ireland are of the highest quality in the world, all natural wood no synthetic glues or fibres. Now we are told that it's perfectly fine to import chairs from South America (ie half way around the world) full of synthetic glues, rusty nails etc, which are cheaper to produce than Irish chairs as they are burning down rainforests (free land).

So as you can see it's not as simple as you might like it to be.

Very well put.

The robber barons of the meat industry must be delighted there are so many useful idiots attacking the ordinary farmers.

MrMusician18

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I like the chair anology
Just to add that 1 person that controls owns only 40% of chair manufacturing but controls all the waste from every factory making chairs and can only give it to him !

He dictates the price of all chairs or ur waste won’t be collected!

This was brought in under simon Coveney

If the industry you're in isn't profitable enough would it not be reasonable enough to just get out?

But alas I see the protesters don't like forestry either...

Plumbthedepths

Millionaire only not wrote: »

I like the chair anology
Just to add that 1 person that controls owns only 40% of chair manufacturing but controls all the waste from every factory making chairs and can only give it to him !

He dictates the price of all chairs or ur waste won’t be collected!

This was brought in under simon Coveney

Coveney is married to a niece of the guy who makes only 40 per cent of the chairs. ;-)

sbsquarepants

Millionaire only not wrote: »

The standards are not the problem , it’s end product price

You know the price now - so what's your plan going forward?
Keep doing more of the same thing that hasn't been working out for you?

riemann wrote: »

Unfortunately when you have invested in equipment for making chairs, your land only produces raw materials for making chairs, it isn't quite straightforward to just change.

The world is quite complicated, not as simple as you might like it to be.

This is not in anyway a complicated issue.

Companies go to the wall all the time. Sell up, cut your losses - why should beef be any different to windows, shoes, biscuits or anything else? Some businesses make money, others don't - the ones that don't either need to change or they die.

What are you planning on changing?

Woodenfloor

I'm a farmer working all the evening and all the day
Driving down the road in me tractor
I'm a farmer

memyself33

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You know the price now - so what's your plan going forward?
Keep doing more of the same thing that hasn't been working out for you?



This is not in anyway a complicated issue.

Companies go to the wall all the time. Sell up, cut your losses - why should beef be any different to windows, shoes, biscuits or anything else? Some businesses make money, others don't - the ones that don't either need to change or they die.

What are you planning on changing?

Because there is a long standing policy to prevent market forces threatening the food supply.

Notice how we haven't had any famines recently? They used to be pretty common.

Yurt2

memyself33 wrote: »

Very well put.

The robber barons of the meat industry must be delighted there are so many useful idiots attacking the ordinary farmers.

No one's attacking the farmers, just questioning why they're going to the government trying to get them to fix prices in their favour in what is obviously a sunset industry. In an industry where you already get cut a cheque from Europe.

And as I stated before, the primary producers are over inflating their role in the value chain.

nkl12xtw5goz70

sbsquarepants wrote: »

If there's no money in beef farming - do something else - what the fúck are these gombeens smoking that they think the rest of us should be obliged to subsidise their shítty life choices?

Well, we already subsidize farming, and massively so: Almost 40 percent of the entire EU budget goes on agriculture, and subsidies now account for around half of Irish farm incomes. Naturally, farmers have become acculturated to state handouts as the solution to all their problems.

New Zealand took the alternative route: They abolished subsidies and gave farmers the choice between modernizing and going out of business. It worked. Today, New Zealand farms are some of the most productive and efficient in the world.

It's only farmers that behave this way - you never see plumbers demanding the state pay them to fit showers people don't want, or shopkeepers insisting they'll only sell fizz bags and they need to cost €500 each to break even - why is that?

You don't have to look far to see RTE braying for more money to make programmes that people don't want to watch, or bus drivers demanding a fortune to drive empty buses around rural backwaters. Every time people get used to suckling at the teat of the taxpayer, it's the same story.

VinLieger

Boggles wrote: »

The Minister works there.

I imagine blocking a boreen in Kerry wouldn't be an effective enough protest.

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Why are u saying we should pull him out of Louth and take the law into our own hands ?
Don’t u know we’d be breaking the law !

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Ye all have good points made !
The farmers grievance is a fair share between producer , processor and supermarkets !
Nothing more nothing less !

The rest we can live with

What does the minister have to do with that? Let me guess more subsidies and government propping up of a failed business model?



Also FYI they already are breaking the law, and the gardai should be locking up and impounding everyone and every vehicle involved. This isn't a protest its holding the city centre hostage.

Millionaire only not

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If the industry you're in isn't profitable enough would it not be reasonable enough to just get out?

But alas I see the protesters don't like forestry either...

He has an unlimited company here so u cannot see his profits/loss
He also runs a maze of companies and pays no tax here , actually no good to anyone in this country
Personally my idea is cab should be put in
Take factories off him for the farmers
Take the private hospital back give them to the people not just ones with deep pockets !
This guy is immune to the law , makes Seán , seanie and all the rest look like puppy dogs

riemann

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Some businesses make money, others don't - the ones that don't either need to change or they die.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/nine-goodman-companies-made-largely-untaxed-profit-of-170m-1.3943367

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/larry-goodman-beefs-up-plans-to-develop-dublin-s-nassau-street-qhqgwl8f7

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/urban-life-property-group-brings-2-2m-windfall-to-larry-goodman-s-son-1.4080891

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/profits-at-goodman-co-owned-galway-clinic-up-23-to-6-4m-1.4096153

Theres a living to be made in farming, it just all seems to be made by the processor at the moment.

memyself33

Yurt! wrote: »

No one's attacking the farmers, just questioning why they're going to the government trying to get them to fix prices in their favour in what is obviously a sunset industry. In an industry where you already get cut a cheque from Europe.

And as I stated before, the primary producers are over inflating their role in the value chain.

Almost every developed nation or bloc subsidies farming.

Thelonious Monk

Just walked through the tractors. What the f*ck does this even mean? Backwards fools.

Yurt2

memyself33 wrote: »

Almost every developed nation or bloc subsidies farming.

I'm aware. Thank you.

Yurt2

riemann wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/nine-goodman-companies-made-largely-untaxed-profit-of-170m-1.3943367

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/larry-goodman-beefs-up-plans-to-develop-dublin-s-nassau-street-qhqgwl8f7

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/urban-life-property-group-brings-2-2m-windfall-to-larry-goodman-s-son-1.4080891

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/profits-at-goodman-co-owned-galway-clinic-up-23-to-6-4m-1.4096153

Theres a living to be made in farming, it just all seems to be made by the processor at the moment.

Not defending the chap, but you're posting articles about his interests in other industries. What's that got to do with the price of turnips?

Do farmers deserve a share in BlackRock Clinic or something? Perhaps in apartment development?

There might be a lesson in diversification in there for you.

I know he has history, but you're trying to cast people into a folk villan role because you feel you're not getting enough money.

The Nal

This would be like priests blockading the city centre demanding the dwindling religious population believe in Christ.

Its over lads, and has been for decades. Get another job.

riemann

Yurt! wrote: »

Not defending the chap, but you're posting articles about his interests in other industries. What's that got to do with the price of turnips?

Do farmers deserve a share in BlackRock Clinic or something? Perhaps in apartment development?

There might be a lesson in diversification in there for you.

I know he has history, but you're trying to cast people into a folk villan role because you feel you're not getting enough money.

How do you think he financed these?! Loans from AIB, lol

RollieFingers

The hack of some of these farmers on the protest, look like extras from The Hills Have Eyes. Any chance they can fcuk off back from where they came and stop disrupting ordinary people going about there business.

Yurt2

riemann wrote: »

How do you think he financed these?! Loans from AIB, lol

He ran a highly successful processing business over the course of decades and became a large player in the international beef business evidently.