Parents found guilty of mutilating one year daughters genitals

Muahahaha

Worrying thing about this case is that if you read between the lines it wasnt the parents who did the actual FGM but rather someone going around offering these services to the Muslim community. The parents are giving this person cover and the case would never have come to light only the child continued bleeding so they brought her to the hospital. So while the parents will receive a sentence there is still somebody out there offering to mutilate little girls for money.

The Satanist

The Satanist wrote: »

It's only allowed in hospitals afaik


https://www.rte.ie/amp/68368/

Did I just read that he got away with killing a child because white Western values don't apply?

Wtf.

Inquitus

katiek102010 wrote: »

Only in medical necessity, which is extremely rare

Male circumcision for religious reasons is not illegal in Ireland currently.

Inquitus

Inquitus wrote: »

Male circumcision for religious reasons is not illegal in Ireland currently.

Needs to be extremely illegal for both males and females. Medical reasons only.

Practitioners should get whatever they'd get for two doing it to an adult against their will.

BENDYBINN

mcmoustache wrote: »

I would hope so. Cutting bits off kids isn't cool. With the exception of medical reasons, of course.

Well some bits need to be cut off......like their toe nails and hair.....

BENDYBINN

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Well some bits need to be cut off......like their toe nails and hair.....

umbilical cord.....

drunkmonkey

niallers1 wrote: »

Is male circumcision still practiced in this country?

I was speaking to an African dad about it, he was taking his son to the UK to get it done, seemingly there's an African guy who does it for a lot of people in Ireland based in Limerick but he's very expensive about €2000.
I've had it done way too young to remember, wouldn't change a thing so it's not something that shocks me when I hear it.
I was a bit taken back by how dodgy it all seemed and his kid wasn't that young. I told him check into getting it done through the proper channels this Limerick guy worried me.
It's the traditional thing where he's from, I'd be just worried about sepsis or something like that if happening under the radar.

strandroad

Muahahaha wrote: »

Worrying thing about this case is that if you read between the lines it wasnt the parents who did the actual FGM but rather someone going around offering these services to the Muslim community.

Not necessarily Muslim, it could be African parents of any number of religions including tribal or Christian like in Nigeria. It's a disgusting "cultural" practice rather than religious one. I suppose there is always some misogynistic religious belief system behind it, I've never heard of atheists guilty of it?

eviltwin

strandroad wrote: »

Not necessarily Muslim, it could be African parents of any number of religions including tribal or Christian like in Nigeria. It's a disgusting "cultural" practice rather than religious one. I suppose there is always some misogynistic religious belief system behind it, I've never heard of atheists guilty of it?

I'm in college with a Nigerian girl who was done aged 13, no reason other than to stop her wanting to have sex. Absolutely disgusting and she couldn't have a natural delivery when pregnant because of it. And her family are Christian.

Kidchameleon

I don't see what all the fuss is about? It was done for religious reasons... The only reason the procedure was performed by a "back alley" practitioner is because female circumcision is illegal in Ireland. If those parents had a boy, they could perfectly legally get him circumcised in a tax payer funded hospital. If we are to believe in equality as it is unendingly spouted these days, female circumcision should be fully legalized and those parents should be freed. If it is good enough for a boy then it is good enough for a girl.

Spanish Eyes

Females in certain cultures are subject to FGM.

Males, even if they are circumcised will enjoy sex. Not so for the ladies who have been subject to FGM.

Must be a male dominated decision really, and total control of the female.

strandroad

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't see what all the fuss is about? It was done for religious reasons... The only reason the procedure was performed by a "back alley" practitioner is because female circumcision is illegal in Ireland. If those parents had a boy, they could perfectly legally get him circumcised in a tax payer funded hospital. If we are to believe in equality as it is unendingly spouted these days, female circumcision should be fully legalized and those parents should be freed. If it is good enough for a boy then it is good enough for a girl.

In case you genuinely don't understand the difference, FGM is more akin to castration or removal of the glans than to circumcision in that the entire clitoris is removed. It's not that their labia are trimmed only.

strandroad

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm in college with a Nigerian girl who was done aged 13, no reason other than to stop her wanting to have sex. Absolutely disgusting and she couldn't have a natural delivery when pregnant because of it. And her family are Christian.

Horrendous, I'm so sorry to hear that.

BENDYBINN

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Females in certain cultures are subject to FGM.

Males, even if they are circumcised will enjoy sex. Not so for the ladies who have been subject to FGM.

Must be a male dominated decision really, and total control of the female.

Not really, if female doesn’t enjoy sex male will get a hell of a lot less of it.
No winner there!

eviltwin

strandroad wrote: »

In case you genuinely don't understand the difference, FGM is more akin to castration or removal of the glans than to circumcision in that the entire clitoris is removed. It's not that only their labia are trimmed.

And sometimes the entrance to the vagina is sewn to prevent intercourse. It's torture.

katiek102010

Deleted User wrote: »

Did I just read that he got away with killing a child because white Western values don't apply?

Wtf.

Bloody hell that's a flipping disgrace

Kidchameleon

strandroad wrote: »

In case you genuinely don't understand the difference, FGM is more akin to castration or removal of the glans than to circumcision in that the entire clitoris is removed. It's not that their labia are trimmed only.

I take it then that you would be happy to have an alternative female circumcision legalized and tax payer funded? There are female circumcision techniques that are far less intrusive than male circumcision...


https://jme.bmj.com/content/42/3/148.abstract


Again, would you be in favor of a technique such as this being legalized in Ireland?

katiek102010

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't see what all the fuss is about? It was done for religious reasons... The only reason the procedure was performed by a "back alley" practitioner is because female circumcision is illegal in Ireland. If those parents had a boy, they could perfectly legally get him circumcised in a tax payer funded hospital. If we are to believe in equality as it is unendingly spouted these days, female circumcision should be fully legalized and those parents should be freed. If it is good enough for a boy then it is good enough for a girl.

Are you for real?

Jesus that's some wrong reading in the last page. Sounds so vile and evil to do that to someone.

seenitall

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Not really, if female doesn’t enjoy sex male will get a hell of a lot less of it.
No winner there!

Only in the communities where marital rape isn't tacitly condoned. Because I'd think you would find a high correlation of FGM and incidences of marital rape as "normal" practice.

Salary Negotiator

katiek102010 wrote: »

Are you for real?

It’s what he does. Picks absolutely ridiculous positions on issues and then argues his point.

Just ignore him.

Spanish Eyes

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Not really, if female doesn’t enjoy sex male will get a hell of a lot less of it.
No winner there!

Off you go, Mysogynist. It is all about men isn't it?

many men do care about the recipient of their nether regions as long as the lady is satisfied also. It is a two way street really.

Cannot happen if the lady has had her nether regions ripped out.

Honestly.

Kidchameleon

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

It’s what he does. Picks absolutely ridiculous positions on issues and then argues his point.

katiek102010 wrote: »

Are you for real?

I think the both of you need to get your sarcasm detectors serviced...



I was pointing out the hypocrisy regarding tolerance of male genital mutilation as opposed to rejection of female genital mutilation. Neither should be tolerated yet boys get tax subsidized circumcisions in Ireland.

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Just ignore him.

Literal bullying

mcmoustache

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Well some bits need to be cut off......like their toe nails and hair.....

I don't know. That seems like a bit of a slippery slope.


I jest, but you're right. Stuff that grow back can be cut.

Mulberrytree

There are a lot of comments on this thread about "African" practices.

I don't know where this hideous set of parents came from, but it's really offensive to see comments about an entire continent associated with such criminal things. That baby's life is affected forever, but I can tell you with every confidence as an "African" woman that fgm is definitely NOT widespread and there are millions of people for whom it's an alien practice.

Certainly it's not a practice in the south of the continent, where I'm from and in many parts of the west either. And it is most certainly a cultural practice across religious lines and nothing to do with any god, rather it's perpetuated by women themselves, many of whom feel -it was done to me, I was pure on my marriage bed, why should xyz escape...

It's a horrible practice but for the sake of removing stigma against many innocent people in Africa who celebrate healthy sexual relationships (we are not all the same, hello, there's s billion made up of Hundreds of thousands of cultures), it's always better not to judge all of us by the lowest who just happen to also be from the same land mass

Calhoun

Mulberrytree wrote: »

There are a lot of comments on this thread about "African" practices.

I don't know where this hideous set of parents came from, but it's really offensive to see comments about an entire continent associated with such criminal things. That baby's life is affected forever, but I can tell you with every confidence as an "African" woman that fgm is definitely NOT widespread and there are millions of people for whom it's an alien practice.

Certainly it's not a practice in the south of the continent, where I'm from and in many parts of the west either. And it is most certainly a cultural practice across religious lines and nothing to do with any god, rather it's perpetuated by women themselves, many of whom feel -it was done to me, I was pure on my marriage bed, why should xyz escape...

It's a horrible practice but for the sake of removing stigma against many innocent people in Africa who celebrate healthy sexual relationships (we are not all the same, hello, there's s billion made up of Hundreds of thousands of cultures), it's always better not to judge all of us by the lowest who just happen to also be from the same land mass

Unfortunately there have been a number of high profile cases in Ireland referring to FGM from an African perspective. I am not aware of cases from other cultures/countries.

Of all the hills to die on you sure this is the one you want to do it on?

Also from the WHO - https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/female-genital-mutilation

Who is at risk?
Procedures are mostly carried out on young girls sometime between infancy and adolescence, and occasionally on adult women. More than 3 million girls are estimated to be at risk for FGM annually.

More than 200 million girls and women alive today have been cut in 30 countries in Africa, the Middle East and Asia where FGM is concentrated 1.

The practice is most common in the western, eastern, and north-eastern regions of Africa, in some countries the Middle East and Asia, as well as among migrants from these areas. FGM is therefore a global concern.

ceadaoin.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't see what all the fuss is about? It was done for religious reasons... The only reason the procedure was performed by a "back alley" practitioner is because female circumcision is illegal in Ireland. If those parents had a boy, they could perfectly legally get him circumcised in a tax payer funded hospital. If we are to believe in equality as it is unendingly spouted these days, female circumcision should be fully legalized and those parents should be freed. If it is good enough for a boy then it is good enough for a girl.

I dont agree with male circumcision either, unless there is a medical reason for it. FGM is nothing like it though, not the reasons it is done for, the procedure or the lifelong medical consequences of it. You can't compare the two.

Still waters

@mulberrytree . How else would you describe people from Africa. And its predominantly Africans that practise it, a strange argument for someone that says Africa is a very diverse culture, just because some asians eat dog doesn't mean i think every Asian person i meet eats dog

jam_mac_jam

Amazing how this conversation always gets back to male circumcision which is completely different and of absolutely no relevance.

Wibbs

Mulberrytree wrote: »

There are a lot of comments on this thread about "African" practices.

I don't know where this hideous set of parents came from, but it's really offensive to see comments about an entire continent associated with such criminal things. That baby's life is affected forever, but I can tell you with every confidence as an "African" woman that fgm is definitely NOT widespread and there are millions of people for whom it's an alien practice.

Certainly it's not a practice in the south of the continent, where I'm from and in many parts of the west either. And it is most certainly a cultural practice across religious lines and nothing to do with any god, rather it's perpetuated by women themselves, many of whom feel -it was done to me, I was pure on my marriage bed, why should xyz escape...

It's a horrible practice but for the sake of removing stigma against many innocent people in Africa who celebrate healthy sexual relationships (we are not all the same, hello, there's s billion made up of Hundreds of thousands of cultures), it's always better not to judge all of us by the lowest who just happen to also be from the same land mass

+1000. It's a more local tradition and not just in Africa, or just among Muslims. Not unlike male circumcision is not just something Jews and Muslims do. And for similar cultural reasons. Like you say it tends to be passed on through parents and local society and for very similar reasons you gave; I had it done/It's my culture/It's "cleaner"/It prevents oversexual thoughts(one of the big reasons the male version was popular in the 19th century west as a an anti masturbation procedure)/It's my blood rite to some deity or other. And that's a lot of cultural and societal pressure.

Years back when Oprah was popular she had an anti FGM show and push to inform vulnerable women about the stupidity and danger of the practice, yet a few show later she was informing her audience about some face cream or other that was developed from the discarded foreskins of American baby boys and that was worthy of a chuckle. Because that's culturally OK in the US. Now if a well read and extremely intelligent woman like her all too aware of cultural differences and perceptions was blind to parts of her own, what hope do some parents from the cultures that practice FGM have without education on the matter.

Even in educated America there are enough in that society, who aren't Jewish or Muslim, so have zero religious reasoning behind it, that would have a fit at the notion that lopping the foreskin of their newborn son is a negative and should stop.