Sunday competition booking system

Mantis Toboggan

That systems seems like a method for the cronies in the bar to control the best tee times and let everyone else fight it out for the scraps. Doesn't seem very fair to me.

CalamariFritti

Yet no one reacts to the fact that it’s really a non issue what with BRS and everything. I said several times that there is no problem getting a good tee time. Yet it’s that bit that people seem to ignore.

I think you’re just trolling against a certain club for some reason now.

Edit: I mean really? You live close by the strongest golf course in the wider area and you decide not to join and rather travel because of this?

blue note

Just to mention, you can't take a line with blue note+2, you have to put down your playing partners names. The way around this is a group of 10 of you can put down each others names. Not all 10 will be available, so you can sub in and out by the end of the week for who's able to play. And remove the unneeded lines once you know they're not needed. But this happens on BRS anyway.

Although in my current club people can put down "public" with them and book a line. This p1sses me off!

xgronkjabv6pcl

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yet no one reacts to the fact that it’s really a non issue what with BRS and everything. I said several times that there is no problem getting a good tee time. Yet it’s that bit that people seem to ignore.

I think you’re just trolling against a certain club for some reason now.

Edit: I mean really? You live close by the strongest golf course in the wider area and you decide not to join and rather travel because of this?

I'll leave it there, I raised very valid points, yet you now accuse me of trolling. You can be an ostrich on the issue if you wish but I'm in the majority on the topic so I'll leave it there before you drag it down into the infantile "trolling" domain.

FTW, perhaps you should take a look at the most recent course rankings and subsequent thread on here before you big its superiority. It's a gorgeous course but it's horses for courses, it's dominance is by no means self-evident.

https://irishgolfer.ie/top-100/2018/12/21/the-irish-golfer-magazine-top-100-irish-course-ranking-2019-d1/

CalamariFritti

I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

If you live close by you live in the town itself. So the closest course after that is easily 30 to 40 minutes away. Which is huge when it comes to summer golf after work practicing etc. It adds another hour to that allegedly so precious Sunday time.

So a decision to not join over this non issue and rather put up with the 35 minute drive (back and forth) makes little to no sense. Whether you feel in the majority opinion or not, it doesn’t add up.

blue note

I think mur28's point is that regardless of whether it actually makes a material difference the perception is there for an outsider that it will. There's a couple of members (or past in my case) who experienced it and found it fine, but for prospective members it's off-putting. I don't it has much of a difference in attracting members and I don't think we'd lose any if we dropped it either. I think the club bar would lose a few grand a year though.

And Williamstown is about 15 minutes drive from tramore GC. there's no comparison between the courses, but it's there. I'd actually have tramore as comfortably the best in the county, but the castle and faithleg are very nice courses too. I'm surprised there's such a difference on that list to golf digest, think we're about 40 places higher there and that's after dropping about 15 places in a few years on that. But those lists are funny, I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yet no one reacts to the fact that it’s really a non issue what with BRS and everything. I said several times that there is no problem getting a good tee time. Yet it’s that bit that people seem to ignore.

I think you’re just trolling against a certain club for some reason now.

Edit: I mean really? You live close by the strongest golf course in the wider area and you decide not to join and rather travel because of this?

One man's 'good tee time' is another man's nightmare, to be honest.

BRS, opens up @ midday the Thursday of the preceding week, "first up best dressed" is as fair as it gets. Donabate have the "don't cancel before 8pm = lose your entry fee" rule. current club doesn't, and the amount of pricking around with tee-times is scandalous.

If, say, 1 player shows up out of 4 and he has to wait to see if there's room to squeeze into the next 4-ball etc.......couple that with the odd slow group and sometimes there's a 30 minute+ delay in the times. If you've turned up half an hour before your allotted time, that's a royal PITA.

Having said that, my brother's FIL is a member there years and he said they used to use a physical timesheet that you fill in with a biro. He had an appointment or something one day so had to get out and finished by a certain time that was always booked by the same 4-ball. He enquired about when the timesheets were available and told X o'clock on a Saturday or whatever, so showed up half an hour early. Waits around for an hour, no sign of the sheet. Another 15 mins later it eventually comes out with the usual suspects occupying the slot he wants, even though he's the only one present.

He called out the player in the first slots name out loud in the bar three times. No answer, so he says out loud, "Looks like he isn't here so he couldn't have booked that time". Scribbles out his name and puts in his own. The other three didn't show up so he just played a casual round on his own and got a refund of the comp fee. He was well prepared to defend it if called on it but nothing ever came of it. BRS was brought in about 2 months later.

CalamariFritti

Ok, trolling was maybe a bit on the strong side, apologies.

My point is that its easily the best course between Mt Juliet on the one side and Fota on the other. If you live close by by why would you be deterred by what can only be called an inconvenience to the extent that you'd rather add one hour of driving. Not saying you can't its anyone's decision after all. But if I weighed up driving to the Castle (20-25 minutes plus ferry) which is lovely no doubt or to Ferrybank or Faithlegg (35 - 40 minutes) over putting up with the draw I wouldn't have to think for minute.

I think there is picture being painted here of some old codgers making rules for themselves and its not true. Its a members owned club we make the rules ourselves and the draw has not been under any internal criticism as far as I know. Loads of people seem to go to it in fact.

Even most guys like me who dont benefit from it dont really object to it. Its easy to work your way around it.

CalamariFritti

CalamariFritti wrote: »

If you live close by by why would you be deterred by what can only be called an inconvenience to the extent that you'd rather add one hour of driving.

One hours driving at a time of your choosing beats having to be in the clubhouse at a certain time outside of your control.

Nevin Parsnipp

davegilly wrote: »

Clubs should really get rid of the option for one person to book a full line. I know two lads that always do it. They book the line but only two of them show up so they dont have to play with anyone else.

Everyone should have to logon like everyone else and book their own time or at the very most only allow you book two spots It would stop people doing what the lads are at above but it would also encourage players to play with different people as well.

And anyone showing up for a competition without booking on the BRS shouldnt be allowed play - No exceptions. This wouldnt be long cutting out that behaviour.

People like the two examples above are costing their clubs money doing what they do. And it seems to be tolerated everywhere unfortunately.

Wouldn't it be easier for the competition secretary just to have a quiet word with these two lads and tell them that their behaviour was not acceptable ?

Sledgehammer and nut come to mind. ?

Montgolfier

I personally would like to see the tee times open up in the brs. Sure it means you my not be able to play with your mates, but its a competition a the end of the day and if your relying in your mates to make a ruling you might be misguided.
Tee times are not that easy to come by, unless you want to play afternnoon golf especially for big events captains prize etc.
I had no idea that this seems to be the only club in the country with that system.

CalamariFritti

Montgolfier wrote: »

I personally would like to see the tee times open up in the brs. Sure it means you my not be able to play with your mates, but its a competition a the end of the day and if your relying in your mates to make a ruling you might be misguided.
Tee times are not that easy to come by, unless you want to play afternnoon golf especially for big events captains prize etc.
I had no idea that this seems to be the only club in the country with that system.

Personally I would benefit too from it opening up completely. But the draw seems quite popular. I dont think a motion for abandoning it would get much support. Maybe it would, I dont know, just doesn't feel that way. For many of the playing members it seems to be a fixture.

From experience I can if you're in any way on the ball with BRS you will pick up a tee time that suits you in the week before the comp. Captains Day etc doesnt count. You could go to the draw for that and still end up playing at 1 o clock. They're exceptions.

xgronkjabv6pcl

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Ok, trolling was maybe a bit on the strong side, apologies.

My point is that its easily the best course between Mt Juliet on the one side and Fota on the other. If you live close by by why would you be deterred by what can only be called an inconvenience to the extent that you'd rather add one hour of driving. Not saying you can't its anyone's decision after all. But if I weighed up driving to the Castle (20-25 minutes plus ferry) which is lovely no doubt or to Ferrybank or Faithlegg (35 - 40 minutes) over putting up with the draw I wouldn't have to think for minute.

I think there is picture being painted here of some old codgers making rules for themselves and its not true. Its a members owned club we make the rules ourselves and the draw has not been under any internal criticism as far as I know. Loads of people seem to go to it in fact.

Even most guys like me who dont benefit from it dont really object to it. Its easy to work your way around it.

You're not deterred by it because you are a member in the club. As someone new to the area, I, like the OP am deterred by it. Even a former members agrees that it is a deterrent.

Faithlegg is 22 mins, Williamstown is 13 mins and Waterford Castle is approx 30 mins ferry depending. That amount of time is a far smaller deterrent than giving up my Saturday evening to wait around for a draw which I have a lower probability of "winning" given a line is won by members so their friends can play with them, imo of course.
You can square it however you like but it's not a remotely enticing facet of the club.

FWIW, on the rankings, whether one agrees with them or not, they are relatively objective and decided upon by those with experience.
It's quite clear that Tramore is more closely aligned with the aforementioned clubs than Fota or Mt Juilet. It's a lovely course and is probably the best in the area tbf but let's group it accordingly, Mt Juilet and Fota are in a different class.

CalamariFritti

Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »

You're not deterred by it because you are a member in the club. As someone new to the area, I, like the OP am deterred by it. Even a former members agrees that it is a deterrent.

Faithlegg is 22 mins, Williamstown is 13 mins and Waterford Castle is approx 30 mins ferry depending. That amount of time is a far smaller deterrent than giving up my Saturday evening to wait around for a draw which I have a lower probability of "winning" given a line is won by members so their friends can play with them, imo of course.
You can square it however you like but it's not a remotely enticing facet of the club.

FWIW, on the rankings, whether one agrees with them or not, they are relatively objective and decided upon by those with experience.
It's quite clear that Tramore is more closely aligned with the aforementioned clubs than Fota or Mt Juilet. It's a lovely course and is probably the best in the area tbf but let's group it accordingly, Mt Juilet and Fota are in a different class.

I am a member but I dont like going to the draw myself and I dont go. For the same reasons mentioned here. It doesnt suit me timing wise. So in that way its as much a deterrent to me as it is to an outsider. And me personally I dont find it much of a deterrent because I know I can work around it with BRS. And thats the advice I'm offering to an outsider. 'Dont be put off by that, you'll be fine.'

Ye I wasnt grouping it with those two, that would be silly. Not in the same league. It was meant geographically. Between those two on either side of Waterford.

blue note

Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »

You're not deterred by it because you are a member in the club. As someone new to the area, I, like the OP am deterred by it. Even a former members agrees that it is a deterrent.

Faithlegg is 22 mins, Williamstown is 13 mins and Waterford Castle is approx 30 mins ferry depending. That amount of time is a far smaller deterrent than giving up my Saturday evening to wait around for a draw which I have a lower probability of "winning" given a line is won by members so their friends can play with them, imo of course.
You can square it however you like but it's not a remotely enticing facet of the club.

FWIW, on the rankings, whether one agrees with them or not, they are relatively objective and decided upon by those with experience.
It's quite clear that Tramore is more closely aligned with the aforementioned clubs than Fota or Mt Juilet. It's a lovely course and is probably the best in the area tbf but let's group it accordingly, Mt Juilet and Fota are in a different class.

I agree it's a deterrent because you're outsiders on this thread and think it would be a problem, not because i think it is a problem.

From the OPs original problems of members booking with their mates instead of randomers, this will happen regardless of the system and isn't a bad thing. If I'm playing in my new club I'll check if my mates are free first and look for a line together. And I can't see the problem with this. And as regards people not showing up, this was less of a problem than average I'd say. From experience of going up on a Sunday there hoping for a no show they're very rare.

And on the Mt juliet / fota point, they're on a different level to tramore, in the same way that tramore on a different level to the ones in-between. Tramore would be in the second tier of parklands with the likes of tullamore, new forest, esker hills, Mount wosely, etc. But no-one is saying it's on the level of Mt juliet or druids glen or the like. Although golf digest had it immediately after carton house O'Meara and smurfit courses last year.

blue note

Looking at my new clubs time sheet for Sunday there are 30 lines of 4 balls, so room for 120 golfers. I played with a fella on sunday who told me he got the last slot on the time sheet on the Saturday night. So at least 120 golfers had their names down. From looking at this Sundays bookings 30 of the names are "public" ie guys booking a line or spot without putting down thr individuals name.

From looking at how did I do for last Sunday, 88 returned cards from the 120+ slots taken on the time sheet. I think that's a disgrace. You should have to include a name if booking a slot and pay a no show fee if you don't fill it.

Mantis Toboggan

blue note wrote: »

I think that's a disgrace. You should have to include a name if booking a slot and pay a no show fee if you don't fill it.

Absolutely, I'd imagine this is easily solved if the club are interested. No idea why some clubs still allow this carry on.

Russman

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Absolutely, I'd imagine this is easily solved if the club are interested. No idea why some clubs still allow this carry on.

There's probably an element of "it was always this way" in a lot of clubs.
We use BRS in my own club, it opens at 6am 10 days before the competition date, but you don't pay your fee until you're signing in in the shop. Personally I think that deducting the fee at booking would just result in people not using it and just arriving on spec at their normal time.
Have to say I probably go against the trend in being totally against not allowing a member to book a full line. If I pay €1,200 a year to play golf, I want to be able (for the most part) to choose who I play with and also to choose if I play when I see the conditions at the course.

I think every club will have its own unique circumstances/demographic that need to be taken into account. What works in one won't necessarily work well in another.

Russman

blue note wrote: »

From looking at how did I do for last Sunday, 88 returned cards from the 120+ slots taken on the time sheet. I think that's a disgrace. You should have to include a name if booking a slot and pay a no show fee if you don't fill it.

I think it depends on if the club has full membership and there are members not getting games, versus a club with a small number of members and a timesheet that's maybe only 75% full at the best of times.
I think number of entries Vs number of cards returned is a bigger problem in golf tbh. You could easily have 10/15 cards not returned which puts a slightly different look on the numbers IMO.

Russman

Russman wrote: »

We use BRS in my own club, it opens at 6am 10 days before the competition date, but you don't pay your fee until you're signing in in the shop. Personally I think that deducting the fee at booking would just result in people not using it and just arriving on spec at their normal time.

I'm confused, how can someone expect to just rock up 'at their normal time' if they haven't booked it through the BRS? Wouldn't someone else have already booked their 'normal' time?

blue note

I think that you should have to include the names of your playing partners when booking the line as opposed to saying blue note +2. People definitely book the whole line in my place in the earlier times so that they can fly around in a 2 ball in the mid week opens. But the result of that is that all the times to 11am could be gone with only a couple of lines actually fully used. And the later times might not suit people.

I also think some people must just not want to play with strangers judging by how many cards are returned vs how many names are on the time sheet. Plus people just not bothering to cross off the "public" bookings when none of their regular partners used it.

xgronkjabv6pcl

blue note wrote: »

I agree it's a deterrent because you're outsiders on this thread and think it would be a problem, not because i think it is a problem.

From the OPs original problems of members booking with their mates instead of randomers, this will happen regardless of the system and isn't a bad thing. If I'm playing in my new club I'll check if my mates are free first and look for a line together. And I can't see the problem with this. And as regards people not showing up, this was less of a problem than average I'd say. From experience of going up on a Sunday there hoping for a no show they're very rare.

And on the Mt juliet / fota point, they're on a different level to tramore, in the same way that tramore on a different level to the ones in-between. Tramore would be in the second tier of parklands with the likes of tullamore, new forest, esker hills, Mount wosely, etc. But no-one is saying it's on the level of Mt juliet or druids glen or the like. Although golf digest had it immediately after carton house O'Meara and smurfit courses last year.

It is a problem though, whether you're viewing it as an outsider or not. You claim it's a non issue but there's no scenario where giving up a Saturday evening to wait around for a draw which you may not win is not an inconvenience. I believe one can contribute in more effective higher margin ways than drinking in a bar but each club to their own.

My main gripe is the following scenario, I attend the draw every Saturday evening, three guys are a regular group that play together.
If all three attend the draw on a Saturday, the probability that they play the most desirable times is 3x the probability I play. That's not so much of an issue for me.

However, what does annoy me is that, I again attend every Saturday while the three attend on a rota every 3rd Saturday resulting in an equal probability of playing at the most desired time.

In effect as a new member, I'm expected to attend every week for a slot while people can not attend, yet still have an equal or greater probability of "winning" a spot than me?
Am I understanding that correctly? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I am correct though, does that seem fair to you and enticing to a new member?
IMO, whether I am one of the three guys or the new member, I find that unfair.

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm confused, how can someone expect to just rock up 'at their normal time' if they haven't booked it through the BRS? Wouldn't someone else have already booked their 'normal' time?

Ya, someone else may well have booked it, but you'll pretty much always get out if you arrive up looking for a game. For instance you'd often have A arriving up because he knows B is away this week and he'll take his spot etc. Only a few weeks ago there was one guy on his own so my group of 4 split up and we went as a 2 ball and a 3 ball to ensure the chap wasn't left out. It worked too as he actually won the competition !:)

Russman

Russman wrote: »

Ya, someone else may well have booked it, but you'll pretty much always get out if you arrive up looking for a game. For instance you'd often have A arriving up because he knows B is away this week and he'll take his spot etc. Only a few weeks ago there was one guy on his own so my group of 4 split up and we went as a 2 ball and a 3 ball to ensure the chap wasn't left out. It worked too as he actually won the competition !:)

That's madness and makes a farce of the entire system. If B is away this week, WTF is he doing booking himself into the comp in the first place? In our club, the only time I/we've been late is due to car trouble. We'd ring the pro-shop and let him know so that anyone who is after us but is there early can get out early. This creates a bit of slack in the timesheet so that when we arrive, it's easier to slot us in.

Only once did that not happen and we were a good 45 mins waiting for a spot. The notion of just rocking up at 10am or whatever, hoping to get out because "I always play at that time" is baffling.

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

That's madness and makes a farce of the entire system. If B is away this week, WTF is he doing booking himself into the comp in the first place? In our club, the only time I/we've been late is due to car trouble. We'd ring the pro-shop and let him know so that anyone who is after us but is there early can get out early. This creates a bit of slack in the timesheet so that when we arrive, it's easier to slot us in.

Only once did that not happen and we were a good 45 mins waiting for a spot. The notion of just rocking up at 10am or whatever, hoping to get out because "I always play at that time" is baffling.

In reality you'll often get guys booking a line with the same 4 names all the time. A group could delegate one guy to be their timesheet guy and wake up at 6am to book the line.

If B is away or not playing or whatever, maybe his group don't want a randomer joining them, it might not be pc but it happens. I'm sure we've all been stuck with "that guy" who takes 75 practice swings and lasers the flag from 30 yards, or the guy who wants to be round in 90 mins.

blue note

Russman wrote: »

In reality you'll often get guys booking a line with the same 4 names all the time. A group could delegate one guy to be their timesheet guy and wake up at 6am to book the line.

If B is away or not playing or whatever, maybe his group don't want a randomer joining them, it might not be pc but it happens. I'm sure we've all been stuck with "that guy" who takes 75 practice swings and lasers the flag from 30 yards, or the guy who wants to be round in 90 mins.

That's exactly the type of thing that boils my p1ss. Getting stuck with that guy is unfortunate, but part of being in the club. You can be sure there are fellow members missing out on playing in the comp because of this. It's self entitled and selfish and I'm sure common in every club in the country.

Golfgraffix

Russman wrote: »

If B is away or not playing or whatever, maybe his group don't want a randomer joining them.

If any member has paid their fee and there is a slot free surely they have a right to it ??? It’s not up to any other member to deny them.

slave1

The point being they just block book the 4ball and even if one is not going they leave their name down to avoid another player joining them

blue note

Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »

It is a problem though, whether you're viewing it as an outsider or not. You claim it's a non issue but there's no scenario where giving up a Saturday evening to wait around for a draw which you may not win is not an inconvenience. I believe one can contribute in more effective higher margin ways than drinking in a bar but each club to their own.

My main gripe is the following scenario, I attend the draw every Saturday evening, three guys are a regular group that play together.
If all three attend the draw on a Saturday, the probability that they play the most desirable times is 3x the probability I play. That's not so much of an issue for me.

However, what does annoy me is that, I again attend every Saturday while the three attend on a rota every 3rd Saturday resulting in an equal probability of playing at the most desired time.

In effect as a new member, I'm expected to attend every week for a slot while people can not attend, yet still have an equal or greater probability of "winning" a spot than me?
Am I understanding that correctly? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If I am correct though, does that seem fair to you and enticing to a new member?
IMO, whether I am one of the three guys or the new member, I find that unfair.

What you're worried about is a far smaller problem that you seem to be fearful of. Presumably you want a time between half 8 and 10, because they'll be the ones taken in the Saturday draw. If not you can just book the time you want when it goes on line. But all you need to do is go online once the sheet is up and pick the best time left assuming it suits. Then check back a couple of times throughout the week and if it's just one space you're looking for one will more than likely open up close to your preferred time and you can just move your name.

In the case of you vs 3 people looking for a line; if the sheet just goes up on line and the 4 of you log on, they'll have 3 times the chance of getting the line. If they just send one to the draw weekly and you go every week you'll have 3 times a better chance of getting the line than if it went straight online because it'll be 1 shot for you and them each instead of 3 for them online.

You might not like the system, but it is fair. And as I say, it's a bit of a reward for supporting the bar, a good way to introduce members to each other and help the club community. If someone goes up every week for the draw and has a pint, that's an extra €250 to the club. If 20 people do that it's an extra 5 grand. And in reality I suspect it's worth more to the club.

Russman

slave1 wrote: »

The point being they just block book the 4ball and even if one is not going they leave their name down to avoid another player joining them

That's it exactly. I'm not saying its right or its wrong, but it happens. That said I've often seen situations where the pro will know who has entered the competition and will shuffle guys around to make sure as many are looked after as possible. Or two 3 balls and a two ball might become two fours if they're compatible.

Russman

blue note wrote: »

That's exactly the type of thing that boils my p1ss. Getting stuck with that guy is unfortunate, but part of being in the club. You can be sure there are fellow members missing out on playing in the comp because of this. It's self entitled and selfish and I'm sure common in every club in the country.

It may well be all of those things. Unfortunately people over time get into their bubble and things become routine, its human nature. They'll still think they're right and some will think its appalling. To be fair I'm half playing devils advocate because I don't think its a black and white issue, there's room for some grey imo.

Russman

Golfgraffix wrote: »

If any member has paid their fee and there is a slot free surely they have a right to it ??? It’s not up to any other member to deny them.

They do indeed have a right to it.

xgronkjabv6pcl

blue note wrote: »

In the case of you vs 3 people looking for a line; if the sheet just goes up on line and the 4 of you log on, they'll have 3 times the chance of getting the line. 1. If they just send one to the draw weekly and you go every week you'll have 3 times a better chance of getting the line than if it went straight online because it'll be 1 shot for you and them each instead of 3 for them online.

You might not like the system, 2. but it is fair.
And as I say, it's a bit of a 3. reward for supporting the bar, a good way to introduce members to each other and help the club community. If someone goes up every week for the draw and has a pint, that's an extra €250 to the club. If 20 people do that it's an extra 5 grand. And in reality I suspect it's worth more to the club.

1. I am more than happy to back myself to be on the ball enough to book the slot I prefer. Although I'm not in total agreement with the total line booking, I can deal with that for the aforementioned reason. Yhis combination is the issue as I must stomach the inconvenience of attending and the reduced probability of success.

2. Clearly our definition of fairness is quite far apart. Given it's lack of adoption elsewhere, I suspect most would view it's combination of inconvenience and questionable fairness as quite off putting.

3. As previously mentioned, supporting a club doesn't only exist in the bar. Furthermore, not everyone wants to socialise in a bar, less and less people in fact. Drinking pints in a bar in order to give myself a greater chance of a decent tee time for the proceeding day is beyond ridiculous in 2019.

CalamariFritti

Not sure what your gripe is.

People have tried to explain to you multiple times that you get your desired time through BRS most of the time
Yet you keep harping on about going to the bar on Saturday completely ignoring the point about BRS being made. Now you come up with hypothetical scenarios over 1 guy going vs 3 guys going.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and even apologised for calling out suspected trolling. I’m beginning to regret that now.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

You might not like the system, but it is fair. And as I say, it's a bit of a reward for supporting the bar, a good way to introduce members to each other and help the club community. If someone goes up every week for the draw and has a pint, that's an extra €250 to the club. If 20 people do that it's an extra 5 grand. And in reality I suspect it's worth more to the club.

It is the exact opposite of fair. It rewards those who have free time / availability / lack of commitments at whatever time the draw is made.

Lets say that time is 6 o'clock of a Saturday evening:
Anyone who works lates on Saturday;
or plays foorball/hurling etc;
or has kids playing sport in the afternoon;
or who was out on the course early on Saturday morning;
or has a partner who needs the car on a Saturday;
or likes a few pints of a Saturday is snookered.

It smacks of a clique who banded together and ended up getting the rules changed in their favour, the group of auldfellas who would be there at that time anyway, because they always tee-off at 1.30pm on Saturdays.

It would seriously impact my decision on whether or not to join a club.

Your point about 'supporting the club' ignores the member who gets up early and volunteers around the course or who brings a 4-ball with him once a month but has other commitments and is getting shafted.

blue note

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Not sure what your gripe is.

People have tried to explain to you multiple times that you get your desired time through BRS most of the time
Yet you keep harping on about going to the bar on Saturday completely ignoring the point about BRS being made. Now you come up with hypothetical scenarios over 1 guy going vs 3 guys going.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and even apologised for calling out suspected trolling. I’m beginning to regret that now.

I didn't come up with that hypothetical scenario, mur28 did. I've commented on having to go to the bar vs the timesheet going directly online, you can read back over my posts if you want, I'm not going to repeat myself or we'll just be going around in circles.

blue note

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is the exact opposite of fair. It rewards those who have free time / availability / lack of commitments at whatever time the draw is made.

Lets say that time is 6 o'clock of a Saturday evening:
Anyone who works lates on Saturday;
or plays foorball/hurling etc;
or has kids playing sport in the afternoon;
or who was out on the course early on Saturday morning;
or has a partner who needs the car on a Saturday;
or likes a few pints of a Saturday is snookered.

It smacks of a clique who banded together and ended up getting the rules changed in their favour, the group of auldfellas who would be there at that time anyway, because they always tee-off at 1.30pm on Saturdays.

It would seriously impact my decision on whether or not to join a club.

Your point about 'supporting the club' ignores the member who gets up early and volunteers around the course or who brings a 4-ball with him once a month but has other commitments and is getting shafted.

I understand all of that. But at the end of it all, if you're just looking for a spot with a window of an hour you'll get it online with minimal hassle. And the club gets a decent revenue stream from it. It's a very old membership and of course the members will run it the way they feel suits the membership best. The thing that used to annoy me was that you'd virtually never get to play from the blues. This was because the members aren't able for it. But again, I don't really want the course set up in a way that's going to ruin a heap of my fellow members Sunday, so I didn't mind.

And I'm exactly the guy the system didn't suit and actually have experience of it - I was a distance member living in dublin who got to play a few weekends each year. I'm pretty sure I am better qualified to say how well it worked or didn't than people who haven't had experience of it.

moycullen14

slave1 wrote: »

The point being they just block book the 4ball and even if one is not going they leave their name down to avoid another player joining them

That really is appalling behaviour. I was always taught - and continue to teach my children - that you should always try and accommodate people on the golf course. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. It's only good manners. One of the nice things about my club is that you feel comfortable playing with just about anybody.

CalamariFritti

blue note wrote: »

I didn't come up with that hypothetical scenario, mur28 did. I've commented on having to go to the bar vs the timesheet going directly online, you can read back over my posts if you want, I'm not going to repeat myself or we'll just be going around in circles.

Sorry for the confusion didn’t mean you

blue note

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Sorry for the confusion didn’t mean you

Sorry, that was my fault. I misread your post.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

I understand all of that. But at the end of it all, if you're just looking for a spot with a window of an hour you'll get it online with minimal hassle. And the club gets a decent revenue stream from it. It's a very old membership and of course the members will run it the way they feel suits the membership best. The thing that used to annoy me was that you'd virtually never get to play from the blues. This was because the members aren't able for it. But again, I don't really want the course set up in a way that's going to ruin a heap of my fellow members Sunday, so I didn't mind.

And I'm exactly the guy the system didn't suit and actually have experience of it - I was a distance member living in dublin who got to play a few weekends each year. I'm pretty sure I am better qualified to say how well it worked or didn't than people who haven't had experience of it.

Fair enough, it would still put me off. Regarding the bit in bold........what's the point of doing the draw in the first place, so? If everyone is guaranteed the time they want then why hold a draw in the first instance?

Again, I suspect it is so a clique of 8-10 feckers get the same 2-3 slots that they consider the 'prime' slots and they play at the same time every week. Colour me suspicious, but I would also suspect that they are a) heavily involved in the draw and b) vehemently opposed to changing it from a draw to an online only system.

blue note

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fair enough, it would still put me off. Regarding the bit in bold........what's the point of doing the draw in the first place, so? If everyone is guaranteed the time they want then why hold a draw in the first instance?

Again, I suspect it is so a clique of 8-10 feckers get the same 2-3 slots that they consider the 'prime' slots and they play at the same time every week. Colour me suspicious, but I would also suspect that they are a) heavily involved in the draw and b) vehemently opposed to changing it from a draw to an online only system.

The point really is that a lot of the members enjoy it and if you go you're guaranteed a spot close enough to your perfect time and you don't have to log on during the week to get a spot. And where there's a real advantage is where you want a full line for 3 of you. It would be hard to get a full line at 9am without being at the draw.

Also, it's an old club and it's the way it's always been. As the years go on fewer and fewer will go up on a Saturday and it will die out.

What's also a shame in the club is that they built 9 great new holes but don't use them half enough. Instead of a 27 hole course it's a 9 and an 18 and basically everything is on the 9. Just for the sake of variety I wish they'd rotate them, but a couple of the best holes on the course are on that nine. The closing hole is the best of the 27 in my view.

I'm sorry, but that is still so batsh1t crazy to me. You're saying that you don't "have to log on during the week" which entails whipping out your phone wherever you are and takes 35 seconds, versus having to give up 2 hours on a Saturday evening to head out to the clubhouse.

That is an absolute dealbreaker for me.

blue note

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that is still so batsh1t crazy to me. You're saying that you don't "have to log on during the week" which entails whipping out your phone wherever you are and takes 35 seconds, versus having to give up 2 hours on a Saturday evening to head out to the clubhouse.

That is an absolute dealbreaker for me.

If you're living in the town you can be up and back in 20 minutes,

It's a shame people think it would affect them this much, you'll still get a good time easily. If anyone has not joined for this reason they've missed out on being in a club with a great course, facilities and very friendly members. And the club would always like more members so it's a shame for them too. But if this is the set up the members want in a members club then I think they should keep doing it.

xgronkjabv6pcl

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Not sure what your gripe is.

People have tried to explain to you multiple times that you get your desired time through BRS most of the time
Yet you keep harping on about going to the bar on Saturday completely ignoring the point about BRS being made. Now you come up with hypothetical scenarios over 1 guy going vs 3 guys going.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and even apologised for calling out suspected trolling. I’m beginning to regret that now.

That level of childish behaviour is :rolleyes: stuff tbh. Why go down the infantile insinuation of trolling when what I am in fact doing is nothing more than simply highlighting the very glaring theoretical flaws in the esoteric system the club uses and why that system is a deterrent for multiple people.

You seems to think that just because I get the tee time most of the time, that therefore validates the use of system. The theoretical method is off-putting irrespective of whether the impact is negligible. That is my point.

I'd far rather rely on my ability to book in time via BRS than wasting multiple hours in a clubhouse for a skewed system to reward me my desired tee time less often than those there for a longer period of time. Again square it how you like but that's an unfair system.

I'll leave it there with you as I have no interest engaging with someone childish enough to accuse my rationale for not joining as trolling even though I acknowledged that it is a lovely course and likely the best course in the area.

prawnsambo

blue note wrote: »

If you're living in the town you can be up and back in 20 minutes,

It's a shame people think it would affect them this much, you'll still get a good time easily. If anyone has not joined for this reason they've missed out on being in a club with a great course, facilities and very friendly members. And the club would always like more members so it's a shame for them too. But if this is the set up the members want in a members club then I think they should keep doing it.

If the point of the exercise is to get people into the clubhouse of an evening, flying up and down in 20 minutes kind of knocks that notion on the head. And the reality of creating a system like that is it suggests that members need to be made to go to the clubhouse when they ordinarily wouldn't. If I was living even inside half an hour from the club, I'd find it an intolerable demand on my time tbh.

blue note

prawnsambo wrote: »

If the point of the exercise is to get people into the clubhouse of an evening, flying up and down in 20 minutes kind of knocks that notion on the head. And the reality of creating a system like that is it suggests that members need to be made to go to the clubhouse when they ordinarily wouldn't. If I was living even inside half an hour from the club, I'd find it an intolerable demand on my time tbh.

Most people start for a drink or two, some stay for the evening. Some stay for a coffee and some just duck their head in for the draw.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

Most people start for a drink or two, some stay for the evening. Some stay for a coffee and some just duck their head in for the draw.

I suspect the people that this draw suits would be in the bar on s Saturday night irrespective of changing the draw to use brs instead.

How it can be called fair but also accept that if you want to play with your mates one of them had to travel to the club is bizarre.

Our system used to be that the physical timesheet appeared on the Saturday before in the clubhouse at 7am.
So basically everyone just played at the end time every week and entered their time for next week when they arrived to play this week.
It worked but only because of little competition for places and it heavily biased those in the locality.
This obviously changed when brs came in but for Sunday's (casual golf day) it was still the physical sheet.
Due to no shows etc Sunday's were also moved to brs but are obviously free. Members are still obliged to check in with caddy master on a Sunday to prevent no shows.

For a competition you can book a line but just use members names. Casual golf you can leave as "guest" but it is checked to see if both you and your guests actually appear.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

If you're living in the town you can be up and back in 20 minutes

And if you're not living in the town....?
Or if you are otherwise engaged?
Or simply don't want to head back to the clubhouse after playing there earlier in the day?

I genuinely find it bizarre that you see no issue with this and think it's fairer than brs. I mean, every argument or counter argument you've proffered just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As I said before, it smacks of a clique and I ****ing hate cliques.

blue note

I see the issues but since the effect of it is minimal I think being bothered by the system is being bothered for the sake of it.