Sunday competition booking system

blue note

blue note wrote: »

I understand all of that. But at the end of it all, if you're just looking for a spot with a window of an hour you'll get it online with minimal hassle. And the club gets a decent revenue stream from it. It's a very old membership and of course the members will run it the way they feel suits the membership best. The thing that used to annoy me was that you'd virtually never get to play from the blues. This was because the members aren't able for it. But again, I don't really want the course set up in a way that's going to ruin a heap of my fellow members Sunday, so I didn't mind.

And I'm exactly the guy the system didn't suit and actually have experience of it - I was a distance member living in dublin who got to play a few weekends each year. I'm pretty sure I am better qualified to say how well it worked or didn't than people who haven't had experience of it.

Fair enough, it would still put me off. Regarding the bit in bold........what's the point of doing the draw in the first place, so? If everyone is guaranteed the time they want then why hold a draw in the first instance?

Again, I suspect it is so a clique of 8-10 feckers get the same 2-3 slots that they consider the 'prime' slots and they play at the same time every week. Colour me suspicious, but I would also suspect that they are a) heavily involved in the draw and b) vehemently opposed to changing it from a draw to an online only system.

blue note

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fair enough, it would still put me off. Regarding the bit in bold........what's the point of doing the draw in the first place, so? If everyone is guaranteed the time they want then why hold a draw in the first instance?

Again, I suspect it is so a clique of 8-10 feckers get the same 2-3 slots that they consider the 'prime' slots and they play at the same time every week. Colour me suspicious, but I would also suspect that they are a) heavily involved in the draw and b) vehemently opposed to changing it from a draw to an online only system.

The point really is that a lot of the members enjoy it and if you go you're guaranteed a spot close enough to your perfect time and you don't have to log on during the week to get a spot. And where there's a real advantage is where you want a full line for 3 of you. It would be hard to get a full line at 9am without being at the draw.

Also, it's an old club and it's the way it's always been. As the years go on fewer and fewer will go up on a Saturday and it will die out.

What's also a shame in the club is that they built 9 great new holes but don't use them half enough. Instead of a 27 hole course it's a 9 and an 18 and basically everything is on the 9. Just for the sake of variety I wish they'd rotate them, but a couple of the best holes on the course are on that nine. The closing hole is the best of the 27 in my view.

I'm sorry, but that is still so batsh1t crazy to me. You're saying that you don't "have to log on during the week" which entails whipping out your phone wherever you are and takes 35 seconds, versus having to give up 2 hours on a Saturday evening to head out to the clubhouse.

That is an absolute dealbreaker for me.

blue note

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that is still so batsh1t crazy to me. You're saying that you don't "have to log on during the week" which entails whipping out your phone wherever you are and takes 35 seconds, versus having to give up 2 hours on a Saturday evening to head out to the clubhouse.

That is an absolute dealbreaker for me.

If you're living in the town you can be up and back in 20 minutes,

It's a shame people think it would affect them this much, you'll still get a good time easily. If anyone has not joined for this reason they've missed out on being in a club with a great course, facilities and very friendly members. And the club would always like more members so it's a shame for them too. But if this is the set up the members want in a members club then I think they should keep doing it.

xgronkjabv6pcl

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Not sure what your gripe is.

People have tried to explain to you multiple times that you get your desired time through BRS most of the time
Yet you keep harping on about going to the bar on Saturday completely ignoring the point about BRS being made. Now you come up with hypothetical scenarios over 1 guy going vs 3 guys going.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and even apologised for calling out suspected trolling. I’m beginning to regret that now.

That level of childish behaviour is :rolleyes: stuff tbh. Why go down the infantile insinuation of trolling when what I am in fact doing is nothing more than simply highlighting the very glaring theoretical flaws in the esoteric system the club uses and why that system is a deterrent for multiple people.

You seems to think that just because I get the tee time most of the time, that therefore validates the use of system. The theoretical method is off-putting irrespective of whether the impact is negligible. That is my point.

I'd far rather rely on my ability to book in time via BRS than wasting multiple hours in a clubhouse for a skewed system to reward me my desired tee time less often than those there for a longer period of time. Again square it how you like but that's an unfair system.

I'll leave it there with you as I have no interest engaging with someone childish enough to accuse my rationale for not joining as trolling even though I acknowledged that it is a lovely course and likely the best course in the area.

prawnsambo

blue note wrote: »

If you're living in the town you can be up and back in 20 minutes,

It's a shame people think it would affect them this much, you'll still get a good time easily. If anyone has not joined for this reason they've missed out on being in a club with a great course, facilities and very friendly members. And the club would always like more members so it's a shame for them too. But if this is the set up the members want in a members club then I think they should keep doing it.

If the point of the exercise is to get people into the clubhouse of an evening, flying up and down in 20 minutes kind of knocks that notion on the head. And the reality of creating a system like that is it suggests that members need to be made to go to the clubhouse when they ordinarily wouldn't. If I was living even inside half an hour from the club, I'd find it an intolerable demand on my time tbh.

blue note

prawnsambo wrote: »

If the point of the exercise is to get people into the clubhouse of an evening, flying up and down in 20 minutes kind of knocks that notion on the head. And the reality of creating a system like that is it suggests that members need to be made to go to the clubhouse when they ordinarily wouldn't. If I was living even inside half an hour from the club, I'd find it an intolerable demand on my time tbh.

Most people start for a drink or two, some stay for the evening. Some stay for a coffee and some just duck their head in for the draw.

GreeBo

blue note wrote: »

Most people start for a drink or two, some stay for the evening. Some stay for a coffee and some just duck their head in for the draw.

I suspect the people that this draw suits would be in the bar on s Saturday night irrespective of changing the draw to use brs instead.

How it can be called fair but also accept that if you want to play with your mates one of them had to travel to the club is bizarre.

Our system used to be that the physical timesheet appeared on the Saturday before in the clubhouse at 7am.
So basically everyone just played at the end time every week and entered their time for next week when they arrived to play this week.
It worked but only because of little competition for places and it heavily biased those in the locality.
This obviously changed when brs came in but for Sunday's (casual golf day) it was still the physical sheet.
Due to no shows etc Sunday's were also moved to brs but are obviously free. Members are still obliged to check in with caddy master on a Sunday to prevent no shows.

For a competition you can book a line but just use members names. Casual golf you can leave as "guest" but it is checked to see if both you and your guests actually appear.

blue note

blue note wrote: »

If you're living in the town you can be up and back in 20 minutes

And if you're not living in the town....?
Or if you are otherwise engaged?
Or simply don't want to head back to the clubhouse after playing there earlier in the day?

I genuinely find it bizarre that you see no issue with this and think it's fairer than brs. I mean, every argument or counter argument you've proffered just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. As I said before, it smacks of a clique and I ****ing hate cliques.

blue note

I see the issues but since the effect of it is minimal I think being bothered by the system is being bothered for the sake of it.

CalamariFritti

Nobody ever said its fairer. On the face of it an open draw where everyone can be in with no hassle is fairer. Nobody is arguing that. Such an open draw would naturally be on line what with BRS etc.

Its just that 'the clubhouse draw' is actually very popular and not just with a few people who hang out around the bar. Its well attended. Like I said typically over half the field are on the sheet after the draw.

I'm in that club for some years now. You know the way it is, people give out about pretty much anything and everything and if you're a somewhat active member you will have heard it all. After a few years in the club you know what things bother people. The draw isn't one of them. Never heard anyone giving out about it, never heard a motion at a GM against it or even someone speaking up against it. And believe me they're not shy.

If you did away with it you'd annoy many for the sake of pleasing a few and a few potentials on the outside. If it was proposed at a general meeting I suspect it would gain no traction whatsoever. There is also the financial aspect.

Dont be dissing it just because its unusual and no one else does it. I don like it myself but its no biggie and knowing the popularity of it I know I'd be pissing against the wind anyway. So I just leave it be especially since its no biggie.

GreeBo

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Nobody ever said its fairer. On the face of it an open draw where everyone can be in with no hassle is fairer. Nobody is arguing that. Such an open draw would naturally be on line what with BRS etc.

Its just that 'the clubhouse draw' is actually very popular and not just with a few people who hang out around the bar. Its well attended. Like I said typically over half the field are on the sheet after the draw.

I'm in that club for some years now. You know the way it is, people give out about pretty much anything and everything and if you're a somewhat active member you will have heard it all. After a few years in the club you know what things bother people. The draw isn't one of them. Never heard anyone giving out about it, never heard a motion at a GM against it or even someone speaking up against it. And believe me they're not shy.

If you did away with it you'd annoy many for the sake of pleasing a few and a few potentials on the outside. If it was proposed at a general meeting I suspect it would gain no traction whatsoever. There is also the financial aspect.

Dont be dissing it just because its unusual and no one else does it. I don like it myself but its no biggie and knowing the popularity of it I know I'd be pissing against the wind anyway. So I just leave it be especially since its no biggie.

The people who do the moaning are the people the clubhouse draw suits, the same ones who are at every AGM and the same ones who are on are have been on the committee. Every club has these people, its just a fact of life.

As I said previously, these are the people who would be in the club *anyway*, draw or no draw, so it suits them down to the ground to couple their pints with getting their usual line with their mates.

You wont hear from the people it doesnt suit, as they wont be in the bar, they are new and dont know many people so say nothing if they happen to go to an AGM as its a closed shop. You can spot the people who will be in line for Presidency or Captaincy a mile off as they are all hanging out together.
The people you aren't hearing from are the random Bob's who take the scraps left over on BRS and play with random people whenever they can, often turning up to find everyone else on their line stayed at home as it was raining and they all decided not to play, but didnt tell random Bob.
Random Bob will jump ship as soon as he finds somewhere else, or his mates join somewhere else. People wont stay at "better" course if its not an enjoyable place to be, i've seen plenty of instances where people leave to go where their friends are, to a clearly inferior course, often further away.

We are dissing it because its crazy and unequal and unfair, thats why no one else does it.
What percentage of your members are at the draw in the clubhouse each week?
I suspect you would find that the vast majority of your new members who arent related to the clique just stay at home and use BRS. I dont have to point out how this scenario ends in 10 years time.

CalamariFritti

Its amazing how you know all these things from miles and miles away. Some of your assumptions are reasonable some of them are just - assumptions.

People are not shy about speaking up in this club. Believe me. But it appears they dont have a problem with this.
And yes there will be a percentage who just put up with it, I'm one of them. Which is easy to do because there is no problem getting a suitable tee time anyway. So obviously nobody feels strongly enough about it. The people who seem to feel the strongest about it here are the outsiders who dont have observed it in practice.

Its a members owned club and everyone has a vote. Its like everything in a democratic system. Much easier to moan and groan about something than to actually show up at an AGM and do something and try to shape things. So maybe there is a silent majority who just puts up with it, its impossible to know. But I'm nearly 15 years there and I never heard anyone going against it. Not a whiff of it. I dont benefit from the draw nor do I go myself. I mean I no have agenda here other than defending my club against what I feel is unjust criticism. But I wouldn't defend it for the sake of it. If it was an ongoing bone of contention I'd admit it.

And yes we have cliques like every other club does and there is the usual committee circle etc. But its not like fkn China either, its ok to speak up and people do it a lot, like I said they're not shy here. The draw is just not perceived to be an issue.

As for how you new people and outsiders. I suppose thats just the way it is. You have to feel your way into a new club, suss the lie of the land, make friends slowly and eventually you're one of the regulars yourself. Could it better? Sure, we probably should have 'minders' for new members for the first while, embrace them more, ease them into the club. You're a bit on your own. But thats the way it is in most clubs I'm sure.

GreeBo

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Its amazing how you know all these things from miles and miles away. Some of your assumptions are reasonable some of them are just - assumptions.

People are not shy about speaking up in this club. Believe me. But it appears they dont have a problem with this.
And yes there will be a percentage who just put up with it, I'm one of them. Which is easy to do because there is no problem getting a suitable tee time anyway. So obviously nobody feels strongly enough about it. The people who seem to feel the strongest about it here are the outsiders who dont have observed it in practice.

Its a members owned club and everyone has a vote. Its like everything in a democratic system. Much easier to moan and groan about something than to actually show up at an AGM and do something and try to shape things. So maybe there is a silent majority who just puts up with it, its impossible to know. But I'm nearly 15 years there and I never heard anyone going against it. Not a whiff of it. I dont benefit from the draw nor do I go myself. I mean I no have agenda here other than defending my club against what I feel is unjust criticism. But I wouldn't defend it for the sake of it. If it was an ongoing bone of contention I'd admit it.

And yes we have cliques like every other club does and there is the usual committee circle etc. But its not like fkn China either, its ok to speak up and people do it a lot, like I said they're not shy here. The draw is just not perceived to be an issue.

As for how you new people and outsiders. I suppose thats just the way it is. You have to feel your way into a new club, suss the lie of the land, make friends slowly and eventually you're one of the regulars yourself. Could it better? Sure, we probably should have 'minders' for new members for the first while, embrace them more, ease them into the club. You're a bit on your own. But thats the way it is in most clubs I'm sure.

To be frank about it, no one else operates this way.
So either your club is doing it wrong, or there is something uniquely different about your club compared to every other club that means you club is right to do it this way.
I for one can't think of any scenarios that would make a club unique in this manner, but that's just me.

CalamariFritti

I get your point. Maybe we’re doing it because it’s been like this forever and changing things is just harder than simply going along with it. Maybe we just need the cash. Who doesn’t? I don’t know.

I admit from the outside it may give an impression of an extra hurdle or something cliquish. But as I said many times it’s not an issue it only may seem that way.

Anyway I think I said everything I can say about it. I’m almost embarrassed over my post count on this. So I’ll leave it at that.

Seve OB

maybe doing it like everyone else does it might attract say about 20 new members. ive no idea if you need new members or don't want them or what your sub is but maybe an extra 20 grand income with very little if indeed any associated costs would be a lot better to the bottom line than a few pints consumed of a saturday evening

blue note

Seve OB wrote: »

maybe doing it like everyone else does it might attract say about 20 new members. ive no idea if you need new members or don't want them or what your sub is but maybe an extra 20 grand income with very little if indeed any associated costs would be a lot better to the bottom line than a few pints consumed of a saturday evening

The club could definitely do with new members, especially younger ones that this system doesn't suit. But I'd be amazed if it discourages many at all. And there's a €600 intro offer at the moment. If someone is considering membership that'll swing it for them. If not they're not that serious about it.

Russman

blue note wrote: »

The club could definitely do with new members, especially younger ones that this system doesn't suit. But I'd be amazed if it discourages many at all. And there's a €600 intro offer at the moment. If someone is considering membership that'll swing it for them. If not they're not that serious about it.

Not with regard to the club in question, but when I was considering a new club some years ago, I know I ruled out at least two because you couldn’t book a line on the timesheet, it was single slots only. You’d be surprised at the seemingly little things that could sway people when making their choices.

davegilly

Russman wrote: »

You’d be surprised at the seemingly little things that could sway people when making their choices.

This is so true. I was looking at joining a club not too far from me until I realized they were using Chronogolf That's a fact. Trying to use that thing to book an open in various places is head wrecking. It has to be costing the clubs money every single day when people want to play their opens? You can't see if there is anyone to play with, what is that about?

Seve OB

davegilly wrote: »

This is so true. I was looking at joining a club not too far from me until I realized they were using Chronogolf That's a fact. Trying to use that thing to book an open in various places is head wrecking. It has to be costing the clubs money every single day when people want to play their opens? You can't see if there is anyone to play with, what is that about?

I'm a member of 2 clubs, the first is 50km from me which I've been a member for 30 years & they use BRS. I play most of my weekend golf here.

the other is around the corner, they use Chronogolf. THE WORST SYSTEM EVER!!!!

There are a few other factors, but Chronogolf is definitely one which would turn me off giving up the old club and joining the local one full time. I really just use that place as a social venue and for midweek golf when I can get out for an evening in the summer

xgronkjabv6pcl

blue note wrote: »

The club could definitely do with new members, especially younger ones that this system doesn't suit. But I'd be amazed if it discourages many at all. And there's a €600 intro offer at the moment. If someone is considering membership that'll swing it for them.If not they're not that serious about it.

No it won't. It didn't sway me, it didn't sway 2 other guys I know u35 who joined elsewhere and it didnt -as of yet- sway the OP.

What precisely are people being "serious" about joining the club in question and can that level of "seriousness" not be achieved elsewhere.

On the offer, it's not all about money especially for those entering the game for the first time, a wide variety of factors are involved.
If someone is relatively new to golf, does the value to course relationship matter that much if they don't feel as welcome as others?
That's not calling the club unwelcoming but we have essentially agreed that the system is not inviting for new especially inexperienced members.

Tommo 76

Does anyone know roughly how much it costs a club for HowdidIdo or master scoreboard?

Golfgraffix

Tommo 76 wrote: »

Does anyone know roughly how much it costs a club for HowdidIdo or master scoreboard?

Handicapmaster is about €400 per year for the network version. Clubv1 is a fair bit pricier but not sure exactly.

Montgolfier

Millie Rich Milkshake wrote: »

No it won't. It didn't sway me, it didn't sway 2 other guys I know u35 who joined elsewhere and it didnt -as of yet- sway the OP.

What precisely are people being "serious" about joining the club in question and can that level of "seriousness" not be achieved elsewhere.

On the offer, it's not all about money especially for those entering the game for the first time, a wide variety of factors are involved.
If someone is relatively new to golf, does the value to course relationship matter that much if they don't feel as welcome as others?
That's not calling the club unwelcoming but we have essentially agreed that the system is not inviting for new especially inexperienced members.

Fyi: I joined faithlegg for a finish Gym/pool and golf worked out cheaper even after the intro rate.
Also the BRS for the sunday comp goes up Thursday evening you book your own spot not messing, i mean all members should have an equal chance of a good tee time.
A lot of nonsense spoken by the 2 guys defending the system so ridiculious i just left the keep digging.