How much in debt are you

yourdeadwright

Have a grand to pay on a credit card , I could pay it off at once but suit me to therow a few hundred off it a month,

As someone said Kids and missus and the worst offenders for getting you in small debt

ELM327

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're trying to personalize the topic - Just to be clear again, I honestly don't give a sh'te about anyone's finances as long as they don't blow back on the financially prudent to bail them out if things go tits up.

There is plenty of on-thread evidence of people who have got themselves up to their neck in debt. I've worked with colleagues who thought every year was going to be like 2006 and borrowed accordingly - it didn't work out great for those guys and some of them are still living with the consequences.

Being able to service a debt now does not mean you will easily service it in 18 months time - that's what most of the last recession boiled down to.

Taking out the thick end of a €50k car loan so you can tell yourself you're Charlie Sheen in Wall Street is a particularly stupid move for most people IMO.

Are you being purposely stupid?
I have explained that I can service the debt comfortably.
Even if I am let go, the last time people were let go in my company in 2008-9 (and a few others since) the redundancy pack was 9 weeks + statutory. So that will easily cover the loan anyway and I'll be back working somewhere else but with a free Tesla to boot.

sbsquarepants

facehugger99 wrote: »

Luckily most don't share your caviler attitude to debt.

.

There's hardly anything cavalier about borrowing money they have told you they can easily repay, and have the cash sitting there which could clear it tomorrow if need be.

That's the polar opposite of cavalier in fact!

It's not what i would have done personally, but as i've said - horses for courses.

facehugger99

ELM327 wrote: »

Are you being purposely stupid?
I have explained that I can service the debt comfortably.
Even if I am let go, the last time people were let go in my company in 2008-9 (and a few others since) the redundancy pack was 9 weeks + statutory. So that will easily cover the loan anyway and I'll be back working somewhere else but with a free Tesla to boot.

Guess what dude - the discussion (and the world) isn't revolving around you.

I have absolutely no interest in you - genuinely.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Are you being purposely stupid?
I have explained that I can service the debt comfortably.
Even if I am let go, the last time people were let go in my company in 2008-9 (and a few others since) the redundancy pack was 9 weeks + statutory. So that will easily cover the loan anyway and I'll be back working somewhere else but with a free Tesla to boot.

Some people here on Boards, and in life, are full of begrudgery - it oozes from them.
If I won money or had a lot to spare I'd buy a Tesla too. I took out a small partial loan for my last car and only have €500 left to clear . Its always a pain paying it back but very doable. I also had more than enough savings to cover the debt but didn't want to use it.

Hands up I'm envious as hell of your Tesla but would do the same myself. Life is short, none of us know what lies ahead. Enjoy it

ELM327

facehugger99 wrote: »

Guess what dude - the discussion (and the world) isn't revolving around you.

I have absolutely no interest in you - genuinely.

Your posts directed at me directly and/or indirectly would dictate the contrary.

CrankyHaus

Financing cleverly, through 0% finance or simply taking loans that you can comfortably service, can certainly be done and to all the people on the thread who do that fair play.

However it requires a fair amount of planning, engagement and self-discipline. My experience is that many, or even most, people who get into the habit of taking on debt are awful at managing it and end up varying degrees deeper in debt than they're comfortable with and have more month to month cash flow problems than those who consciously avoid debt. In fact I think that the business model of consumer finance is predicated on this reality.

ELM327

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Financing cleverly, through 0% finance or simply taking loans that you can comfortably service, can certainly be done and to all the people on the thread who do that fair play.

However it requires a fair amount of planning, engagement and self-discipline. My experience is that many, or even most, people who get into the habit of taking on debt are awful at managing it and end up varying degrees deeper in debt than they're comfortable with and have more month to month cash flow problems than those who consciously avoid debt. In fact I think that the business model of consumer finance is predicated on this reality.

I'd temper that slightly by amending it to the business model of "sub prime and credit card" consumer finance is predicated on this reality

anewme

facehugger99 wrote: »

Luckily most don't share your caviler attitude to debt.

Some do unfortunately and they are usually the ones braying loudest for 'debt forgiveness' when the **** hits the fan.

Ive a cavalier attitude to nothing. If you can afford it, go for it.

As I said, I've never missed a payment in my life on anything and wont now at this stage. I got my mortgage statement last week and this is the first time that savings is larger than the outstanding amount so irrespective of what the future brings, I'm home.

If you sign on the dotted line, you pay, that's the way it should be and don't blame anyone else.

anewme

facehugger99 wrote: »

Guess what dude - the discussion (and the world) isn't revolving around you.

I have absolutely no interest in you - genuinely.

Ah sure you said the same to me.

ELM327

anewme wrote: »

Ive a cavalier attitude to nothing. If you can afford it, go for it.

As I said, I've never missed a payment in my life on anything and wont now at this stage. I got my mortgage statement last week and this is the first time that savings is larger than the outstanding amount so irrespective of what the future brings, I'm home.

If you sign on the dotted line, you pay, that's the way it should be and don't blame anyone else.

That's exactly the idea. I'm a staunch capitalist and don't want anyone other than me to pay my own way and the same for everyone else, just support yourself and your family unit.


I've great credit, never missed a payment, have a 12k credit card limit with no missed payments ever, multiple car loans all paid back early etc.


If you can afford something it's not cavalier to buy it.

elperello

I regard credit cards only as a convenience not a source of credit.

ToxicPaddy

During the crazy Celtic Tiger years I got myself into a stupid amount of debt through car finance, large credit card balances and personal loans to the level where I was spending 80% of my income servicing debt and covering basic living expenses before food was even considered.

Managed to clear it all by 2011 and now I'm pretty much allergic to debt.

Up to 18 months ago ago I didn't even own a credit card and have no overdraft facility on my bank account. Cards like Revolut are a godsend. You have your monthly budget on it and don't even need to bring your bank card with you so whatever is in your bank account stays there.

Current debt outside of my mortgage is approx €500 which was a purchase for the house. I plan on clearing that this month as I have savings which far exceed the amount of debt I have. Most savings, bonuses, extra cash goes towards lump sum payments on the mortgage principal with some left to one side for an emergency fund just in case.

The current amount of cheap credit on offer is disgraceful and we are definitely heading back to Celtic Tiger days. First it was PCP on new cars, then cheap mortgages and now it's cheap personal loans being advertised with credit cards being next to be pushed by banks.

It's just far enough past the last crash for the younger generations, 20 somethings getting their first jobs, to not fully understand or remember what happened 10 years ago, so hopefully they have the sense not to do what we did to ourselves back then.

I'm happy pottering around in my older car, watching my 32inch 10 year old TV and saving to buy anything I need or want rather than putting it all on credit cards or borrowing to get it a little quicker.

I pity those trying to get on the property ladder or pay rent while getting their first jobs. They really are going to struggle

ToxicPaddy

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Financing cleverly, through 0% finance or simply taking loans that you can comfortably service, can certainly be done and to all the people on the thread who do that fair play.

However it requires a fair amount of planning, engagement and self-discipline. My experience is that many, or even most, people who get into the habit of taking on debt are awful at managing it and end up varying degrees deeper in debt than they're comfortable with and have more month to month cash flow problems than those who consciously avoid debt. In fact I think that the business model of consumer finance is predicated on this reality.

It's pretty much how I got myself out of debt. Transferred balances between cards offering 0% balance transfers, cleared as much as possible then transferred again and again until gone.

Then lumped all personal loans and car loans etc into a single loan at the lowest rate available saving on the multiple repayments with loan insurance being also saved. Moved that 2-3 times to newer lower interest rates as they were available and finally moved to a credit union loan where I could lodge additional payments off the principal without any penalty.

A lot of stress and worry but a tough lesson learned.

Ush1

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

During the crazy Celtic Tiger years I got myself into a stupid amount of debt through car finance, large credit card balances and personal loans to the level where I was spending 80% of my income servicing debt and covering basic living expenses before food was even considered.

Managed to clear it all by 2011 and now I'm pretty much allergic to debt.

Up to 18 months ago ago I didn't even own a credit card and have no overdraft facility on my bank account. Cards like Revolut are a godsend. You have your monthly budget on it and don't even need to bring your bank card with you so whatever is in your bank account stays there.

Current debt outside of my mortgage is approx €500 which was a purchase for the house. I plan on clearing that this month as I have savings which far exceed the amount of debt I have. Most savings, bonuses, extra cash goes towards lump sum payments on the mortgage principal with some left to one side for an emergency fund just in case.

The current amount of cheap credit on offer is disgraceful and we are definitely heading back to Celtic Tiger days. First it was PCP on new cars, then cheap mortgages and now it's cheap personal loans being advertised with credit cards being next to be pushed by banks.

It's just far enough past the last crash for the younger generations, 20 somethings getting their first jobs, to not fully understand or remember what happened 10 years ago, so hopefully they have the sense not to do what we did to ourselves back then.

I'm happy pottering around in my older car, watching my 32inch 10 year old TV and saving to buy anything I need or want rather than putting it all on credit cards or borrowing to get it a little quicker.

I pity those trying to get on the property ladder or pay rent while getting their first jobs. They really are going to struggle

Sorry wha? In Ireland??

jimgoose

Legacy Tasty Spit wrote: »

...I don't even draw the State pension or household package.

Well you should. Take every cent the fuckers owe you, you're entitled and you've earned it.

In my own case, significant assets, significant income, insignificant debt.

ToxicPaddy

Joshua Ruiz 2 wrote: »

It might not be so easy to get a loan if you lose your job. Always good to have savings.

This is true. Another reason why I love credit unions, you can borrow up to 3 times your total savings. Rates are a little higher than banks but a lot more understanding and flexible.

So a combination of savings and borrowing can help you out of a tight spot.

jimgoose

Ush1 wrote: »

Sorry wha? In Ireland??

Mortgages were and are ridiculously cheap in Ireland, from 100% equity to ECB rate-trackers.

jimgoose

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

This is true. Another reason why I love credit unions, you can borrow up to 3 times your total savings...

You can borrow a lot more than that, in some of them. I suppose it depends who you are.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

jimgoose wrote: »

Well you should. Take every cent the fuckers owe you, you're entitled and you've earned it.

In my own case, significant assets, significant income, insignificant debt.

Not how I look at it. They owe me nothing and I owe this state my education and well being. I don't need it and choose not to take it.

ToxicPaddy

jimgoose wrote: »

You can borrow a lot more than that, in some of them. I suppose it depends who you are.

The one I uses tends to offer 3 times your savings as standard, never had reason to borrow more thankfully.

jimgoose

Legacy Tasty Spit wrote: »

Not how I look at it. They owe me nothing and I owe this state my education and well being. I don't need it and choose not to take it.

Very laudable of you, Herr Hauptmann. I can assure you such benevolence and bonhomie is not forthcoming in the other direction!

dundalkfc10

Get paid €400 after Tax

Rent €150 Week
Bills €50 Week
Car €50 Week
Food €50 Week
Childcare €80 Week

Debts €10,000 and with me only having €20 a week to live off, Im ****ed TBH

Might just move abroad

ToxicPaddy

Ush1 wrote: »

Sorry wha? In Ireland??

Haha yeah in Ireland when compared to the past.

I have a mortgage for 2.65% fixed for 5 years. My last mortgage was 4.6% variable, fixed rate was 4.9%

PCP is a crazy cheap way to buy a car if you can afford the lump sum payment (which a lot can't) at the end.

Loans from 6.3% and I've seen AIB offering 13.5% on credit cards. Reasonably cheap compared to loans in the past I've had (8.5% being absolute lowest) and previous credit cards at 18% or more)

Yes compared to Europe we are being ripped off for interest rates but the amounts they offer for loans and balances on credit cards are crazy.

I got a credit card 18 months ago for wedding and house purchases and the bank have approached me 4 times offering to raise my €3k limit on the card which I have politely declined.

The credit card is going to be cut up soon and cancelled as soon as we are done kitting out the house.

anewme

jimgoose wrote: »

You can borrow a lot more than that, in some of them. I suppose it depends who you are.

I borrowed 40K recently. I think I have around 600 euro saved there.

ToxicPaddy

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Get paid €400 after Tax

Rent €150 Week
Bills €50 Week
Car €50 Week
Food €50 Week
Childcare €80 Week

Debts €10,000 and with me only having €20 a week to live off, Im ****ed TBH

Might just move abroad

Jaysus that's tough, not much wiggle room there. Best of luck with it and hopefully things improve for you soon.

elperello

jimgoose wrote: »

Very laudable of you, Herr Hauptmann. I can assure you such benevolence and bonhomie is not forthcoming in the other direction!

I think you are right about it not being forthcoming in the other direction.
I would advise people to avail of any payments available to them.
It's the essence of financial prudence to collect what is your due.
You never know when the rainy day will come and there won't be any credit for payments foregone.

Ginger83

anewme wrote: »

I borrowed 40K recently. I think I have around 600 euro saved there.

How

The_Honeybadger

Small mortgage and a €10k car loan, although my work travel expenses cover the car loan, tax, insurance and most of the diesel each month so I don’t see the car loan as a problem whatsoever, more a perk of the job. I was ‘quids in’ for ages when I had a banger but reliability issues forced me in to an upgrade.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

Mortgages were and are ridiculously cheap in Ireland, from 100% equity to ECB rate-trackers.

Mortgages are expensive in Ireland compared to many other European counties.

jimgoose

Alyssa Pitiful Aeroplane wrote: »

Mortgages are expensive in Ireland compared to many other European counties.

You should've been around in the '80s and mid-'90s... :pac:

Ush1

jimgoose wrote: »

Mortgages were and are ridiculously cheap in Ireland, from 100% equity to ECB rate-trackers.

You must be joking. The poster is talking post crash so not trackers(which will never ever happen again).

How is 100% equity a "cheap" mortgage, equity has nothing to do with the cost of finance.

We have some of the highest rates of interest in the Euro Zone, possibly the highest if I'm not mistaken. Finance ministers for a long time have been putting pressure on our banks to lower the rates since they are so out of whack.

Ush1

jimgoose wrote: »

You should've been around in the '80s and mid-'90s... :pac:

We have never had cheap mortgages in Ireland.

jimgoose

Ush1 wrote: »

We have never had cheap mortgages in Ireland.

Compared to the late teen and early twenty interest rates back then, they are. There are a lot of pre-crash mortgages currently running costing buttons compared to what some people are putting up with. I agree that most of the EU is cheaper.

anewme

Ginger83 wrote: »

How

I was going to go with my own Bank, saw a flyer in Credit Union with discounted rates and just applied.

I dont think they have the same restrictions anymore for loans vs. savings etc, once you can service the loan.

NSAman

Ush1 wrote: »

We have never had cheap mortgages in Ireland.

Yes we do.

And yes we have had.

I currently pay ECB + .25% = cheap mortgage in Ireland.

Of my mortgages in the US.. they vary between 3-5% granted they are fixed over their lives. The above rate is much cheaper but obviously variable. However, I was one of the lucky ones to maintain this type of mortgage.

I also remember when mortgages were running at 15%

mariaalice

No debts worth speaking off, I am amazed at some of the car loans we are both working professionals with good incomes I would never dream of spending some of those amounts on a car have always had a 1-liter car and I keep it well maintained. I do the M50 a couple of days a week.

Are people not concerned about the future, paying down debt sorting them selves out getting a pension.

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

No debts worth speaking off, I am amazed at some of the car loans we are both working professionals with good incomes I would never dream of spending some of those amounts on a car have always had a 1-liter car and I keep it well maintained. I do the M50 a couple of days a week.

Are people not concerned about the future, paying down debt sorting them selves out getting a pension.

Some people like nice cars
I have a 7% pension with 7% matched by company to give 14% total

Ush1

NSAman wrote: »

Yes we do.

And yes we have had.

I currently pay ECB + .25% = cheap mortgage in Ireland.

Of my mortgages in the US.. they vary between 3-5% granted they are fixed over their lives. The above rate is much cheaper but obviously variable. However, I was one of the lucky ones to maintain this type of mortgage.

I also remember when mortgages were running at 15%

As I said trackers were an anomaly and most people who have them are still in negative equity as the house prices have not recovered to pre crash levels.

The US is irrelevant to the ECB, and in the euro zone we have some of the highest rates.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/mortgage-rates-in-ireland-twice-the-average-level-for-eurozone-38673814.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/banks-have-repeatedly-resisted-doing-right-thing-on-mortgage-rates-customer-debt-central-bank-38684584.html

Motivator

ELM327 wrote: »

Generally yes, however as it is my profession I would disagree in this instance.
Care to address anything else in any of my posts or are you just continuing with the "it's stupid" remarks? (Which of course I shall attribute to begrudgery)

Why would I begrudge anyone stuck paying a €47,000 car loan?

ToxicPaddy

mariaalice wrote: »

Are people not concerned about the future, paying down debt sorting them selves out getting a pension.

I agree, some people just seem content to have a life buried under debt with no plan to get out of it or plan for the future.

I'm currently contributing the equivalent of 20% of my gross income to a pension (incl employer contributions) and going to increase that to 25% next year. It was one of the first things drilled into me by my parents when I started working.

The aim is to be mortgage and completely debt free within 12 years and that aim is looking likely unless there are some serious financial issues experienced in the near future.

I'm expecting to be spending the last 10-15 years before retirement topping up the savings, maxing out the pension and enjoying life.

CivilCybil

anewme wrote: »

In all fairness, if you even did the maths on the back of a cigarette packet, you would see that there was no way you could afford repayments on a €300K loan on the back of a €50K salary jointly.

Maybe because I was very poor growing up, as in, no rent paid, no lights as ESB was cut off, no food, I know that if you don't pay, it literally gets taken away, so I would be wary of what I sign up to.
.

Never said we couldn't afford it. Mortgage has always been paid. Rented out a room for a year when himself had hours cut.

300k over 35 years on a tracker mortgage was less than what we were paying in rent at the time so we could afford it.
Point is we were pushed and pushed to take more. By the banks.
And then when they realised tracker mortgages were saving people money and costing them, they offered people money to get rid of it. Without explaining that long term it was a really bad idea


I work in financial services so am a bit wiser than a lot would be. The actions of the financial institutions encouraged a lot of people to get into debt. I remember getting a credit card with a 1k limit and them automatically increasing the limit year in and within 3 years my limit was 6k.

I also grew up poor and am careful with money.
Some people grow up poor and can't manage money at all.
The onus should be on the people making gains from the debt to ensure they don't lure people who are less in the know into levels of debt they can't afford.

ELM327

Motivator wrote: »

Why would I begrudge anyone stuck paying a €47,000 car loan?

Because you couldnt afford to service it perhaps? Anyway that post was not directed at you.




Some interesting points to note. I brought this thread up at work lunch yesterday and was met with a mixture of "those morons, it's your money, if you can afford it fair play" and "yeah they are right, that amount of finance is madness".


The people who said the begrudgers (facehugger and his ilk) were right, some of them admitted to borrowing 30k for a wedding. Borrowing a few grand for a holiday. One of them smokes 20 a day. The remainder would generally have a premium car on PCP or HP - most have 5 series or A6 - and their PCP + fuel cost is not far off my loan repayment, and they arent even into cars.

facehugger99

ELM327 wrote: »

The people who said the begrudgers (facehugger and his ilk) were right, some of them admitted to borrowing 30k for a wedding.

Why would I begrudge you .

It's absolutely necessary to me to have people like yourself willing to shell out mad money for new cars. It allows me to pick them up a few years later for a fraction of the price.

I do think however you need to stop looking for validation from external sources - why do you care so much what your work colleagues or internet randomers think of your choices? Why do you need to drive a €50k car to feel special?

Ush1

facehugger99 wrote: »

Why would I begrudge you .

It's absolutely necessary to me to have people like yourself willing to shell out mad money for new cars. It allows me to pick them up a few years later for a fraction of the price.

I do think however you need to stop looking for validation from external sources - why do you care so much what your work colleagues or internet randomers think of your choices? Why do you need to drive a €50k car to feel special?

Have you considered that he just likes the car?

facehugger99

Ush1 wrote: »

Have you considered that he just likes the car?

I think there is a very fragile ego at play.

Wanderer78

Joshua Ruiz 2 wrote:

For a society to function people must be required to assume a certain level of personal responsibility.

It ll be interesting when the financial sector finally accepts responsibility for its immoral and unethical behaviour

ELM327

facehugger99 wrote: »

I think there is a very fragile ego at play.

Absolutely not, I don't need your approval for anything
I just buy what I like and can afford. I will not however, let thinly veiled barbs at me go unchecked

Joshua Ruiz 2 wrote: »

Are you insinuating he has a small penis?

Arah that's beside the point

jam_mac_jam

Maybe people like cars? It would kill me to spend 50k on car but I have probably spent 5K on a holiday where people would be disgusted by that but for me its what I like to do.

Why do you assume that a nice car is just a status symbol? Some people really like cars. I don't care about cars but I understand if you had the money and you liked them, why not.

ToxicPaddy

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I agree, some people just seem content to have a life buried under debt with no plan to get out of it or plan for the future.

This sentence really captures what I was saying. “Buried under debt” really brings up images of someone stressed, unable to sleep, really in a bad way due to having loans.

The reality is most people don’t even think about the loans. They are comfortably paying them off, they are enabling them to have things they would have to spend impractical amounts of time saving for and they are enjoying life. Doesn’t stop then having pensions or planning for retirement either but I do think some people are overly concerned about retirement rather than enjoying life up to that point.

I agree retirement planning is important but I’m not too gone on the idea of tying up large amounts of money that can’t be accessed either.

It also depends on the current situation. I was paying a pension in my last job (it was compulsory) and for a relatively small contribution my employer was butting about 6 times more into it. I changed jobs and my current company has no pension plan or make no contributions etc so I would have to make a much bigger contribution myself. At the same time I’m currently preparing to build a house and have some other expenses so I made the decision to hold off the pension for now as the money is more important now than in many years time. I put it this way, I need to keep my regular savings going for a mortgage app and if I was paying the pension I would have to cut the amount a lot or completely.

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

I
I'm expecting to be spending the last 10-15 years before retirement topping up the savings, maxing out the pension and enjoying life.

Do you never enjoy actually spending money and having some nice things? What’s the end goal of saying so much and putting so much into a pension, money is no good unless you spend it imo.