Cash only shops

Ally Dick

What's the story with taxis? Are most of them still cash only? If I use a taxi app, will that be it, if I pay through the app using my card?

PhilOssophy

enricoh wrote: »

Was in croker for a match in the summer. Went to get a pint at half time n with all the clowns paying by card I didn't bother in the end.
Dunno if they had exceeded the contactless limit or wifi issues or what but it was painful!
Should be a bar for cash only imo- way faster!

Badly planned bar so, in most cases its quicker than a lad having to have change for you. What would be great is if you could pay on your phone from your seat, and just pick it up.

rafatoni

branie2 wrote: »

Johnny Cash

No. Maggie Cash..

dxhound2005

Ally Dick wrote: »

What's the story with taxis? Are most of them still cash only? If I use a taxi app, will that be it, if I pay through the app using my card?

The story with taxis got a good airing here recently.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=111723345

Sleeper12

enricoh wrote:

Was in croker for a match in the summer. Went to get a pint at half time n with all the clowns paying by card I didn't bother in the end. Dunno if they had exceeded the contactless limit or wifi issues or what but it was painful! Should be a bar for cash only imo- way faster!

I was in Nowlan Park for a gig a few months ago. Phone lines for all card machines went down. Once admitted there was no readmission. Some younger people had no cash. They couldn't even buy a bottle of water.

I have a Revolut card and once a month or so I'm advised that their system is down & that I should carry a 2nd card.

In some states in the US they have made cashless shops illegal as they discriminate against people who don't have bank statements. These tend to be poorer people. I've nothing against cards. I use them myself but Cash is king. I wouldn't want to live in a cashless society.

Adyx

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I was in Nowlan Park for a gig a few months ago. Phone lines for all card machines went down. Once admitted there was no readmission. Some younger people had no cash. They couldn't even buy a bottle of water.

I have a Revolut card and once a month or so I'm advised that their system is down & that I should carry a 2nd card.

In some states in the US they have made cashless shops illegal as they discriminate against people who don't have bank statements. These tend to be poorer people. I've nothing against cards. I use them myself but Cash is king. I wouldn't want to live in a cashless society.

We've had lots of issues with our ISP which meant our card machines went down too. Our merchant provider now supplies terminals with their own 3g/sim card so we're in the process of switching some of our terminals over. They cost extra per month but it's worth it for the handiness.

Chris_Heilong

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Cash in shops is faster than waiting for a machine to authorize a debit card, much prefer cash.

I buy my lunch every day using my phone to pay on a self service till. The longest part of the process is waiting for the receipt to print, and that only takes a few seconds.

Adyx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I buy my lunch every day using my phone to pay on a self service till. The longest part of the process is waiting for the receipt to print, and that only takes a few seconds.

Contactless is faster than cash any day and for larger transactions I'd still rather use my card or phone

Darc19

blueshade wrote: »

There's a massive problem with people being trafficked from China and Vietnam, especially to work in beauty salons etc. I notice a place that opened recently where even the men are doing nails and all the staff are wearing those surgical masks while on the premises. I do wonder if the staff have been trafficked and it businesses are cash only it might be to keep a lid on the trafficking. It's up to the owners as to what they lodge in the bank and if it's all that's going through the till. What about all these kebab/fast food shops too?

That's very much like what English people said 25 years ago.

"he's irish, so probably a terrorist"

There are thousands of Vietnamese and Chinese people here fully legally. Many are studying and paying high fees and they are permitted to work too.

China and Vietnam have a large middle class group.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

That’s against the T&Cs of having the machine. Contact their bank. They cannot have a minimum charge.

ive been to some places put a ten cent or so charge if you spend less than a tenner and wish to pay via card

Yurt2

Darc19 wrote: »

That's very much like what English people said 25 years ago.

"he's irish, so probably a terrorist"

There are thousands of Vietnamese and Chinese people here fully legally. Many are studying and paying high fees and they are permitted to work too.

China and Vietnam have a large middle class group.

There are many here legally, but there are many here illegally also. Don't be wilfully blind to what is going on

Trafficking to work in the black economy is a massive problem in Europe - the goings on of the last few weeks should have told you that.

And the black economy is not a good thing.

dxhound2005

Adyx wrote: »

Contactless is faster than cash any day and for larger transactions I'd still rather use my card or phone

It all depends on the person. If they have to go searching among a selection of cards, it will take just as long as someone searching for a purse in a bag to get cash. An organised person will be equally quick with cash or card. I see all types at tills.

fritzelly

Aubrielle Polite Tack wrote: »

ive been to some places put a ten cent or so charge if you spend less than a tenner and wish to pay via card

That's illegal (standard debit/credit cards)

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It all depends on the person. If they have to go searching among a selection of cards, it will take just as long as someone searching for a purse in a bag to get cash. An organised person will be equally quick with cash or card. I see all types at tills.

Clutching. Card is faster unless it’s a completely round amount like 10 euro or something.

dxhound2005

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Clutching. Card is faster unless it’s a completely round amount like 10 euro or something.

It all depends on the person. If they have to go searching for their card instead of having it ready, it will take longer than handing over a note or feeding it into a self service till and getting some change.

tritriagain

Worked in a place where some items were as little as 10c and people would try and pay by card. Who the f##k doesn't have 10c.

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It all depends on the person. If they have to go searching for their card instead of having it ready, it will take longer than handing over a note and getting some change.

Nobody has to get change for a card transaction so card is faster.

dxhound2005

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Nobody has to get change for a card transaction so card is faster.

OK I agree, but only by a few seconds where both are organised. It is slower where they have to go searching for their card. Did you ever see someone like that at a till?

And as has been reported, when the technology fails, cash is king.

Sleeper12

I saw some idiot trying to pay contactless with his phone a few months ago. Some very angry people behind him in the queue. He was determined that it would work & kept trying. Eventually he had to take a card out of his pocket. Slowest transaction in history

Edit: I made a mistake. He tried to pay using his watch not his phone

Auguste Comte

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It all depends on the person. If they have to go searching for their card instead of having it ready, it will take longer than handing over a note or feeding it into a self service till and getting some change.

If they are the type of person that has to search around for a card they are not going to be any faster getting cash out.

dxhound2005

Auguste Comte wrote: »

If they are the type of person that has to search around for a card they are not going to be any faster getting cash out.

That's what I said.

AulWan

I guess for the business owner, it comes down to is the cost of offering your customers the option of paying by card versus the potential loss of custom if you don't. I've left shops that don't offer the option to pay by card as I rarely carry more then €20 cash on me since contactless became a thing.

My friend did eventually did get a card reader (bought, not rented out) as more then once she got stung by customers who claimed they didn't realise she didn't take cards and who swore they'd drop the cash back, and she never saw them again. Plus, she didn't feel safe carrying cash to her car at night.

They must be doing something wrong by accepting legal tender.

I see BOI charge 60c per €100 notes lodged. A barber might have 6 card transactions to reach €100, plus pay monthly charge on the machine and for broadband on top of that. I’m not sure if all card machines now require bb, but I know my AIB card machine had to be replaced last year with one that used bb instead of telephone line. Also, as another poster said, tips may be more forthcoming in cash rather than with card payments.

fritzelly

If they are anything like AIB then the charge is substantially more for coins, most businesses will not be just depositing notes only. Add in cashback and you save money not having to deposit it.

54and56

Ally Dick wrote: »

So if the revenue inspected these places, what would the excuses be?

They don't need any excuses. Cash is legal tender. Cards aren't. Businesses must accept legal tender, there's no obligation to accept cards and no compulsion to explain why you don't.

IMHO cash only businesses are almost all cheating PAYE, VAT and Corp Tax.

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

If they are anything like AIB then the charge is substantially more for coins, most businesses will not be just depositing notes only. Add in cashback and you save money not having to deposit it.

AIB are 45c per €100 lodged, can someone please tell me that having a card machine is cheaper than paying 45c on €100 cash lodged in the bank.

Sleeper12

54and56 wrote:

IMHO cash only businesses are almost all cheating PAYE, VAT and Corp Tax.

Why jump to that conclusion though?

Surely if 40 percent of your business is cash & cheque you still have plenty of scope to fiddle the taxman. I take cash, card, cheque and bank transfer in my business. The average transaction is 300 yet more than half of people choose to pay cash. I don't understand how a business would have to refuse cards and cheques to avoid paying tax.

54and56

54and56 wrote: »

IMHO cash only businesses are almost all cheating PAYE, VAT and Corp Tax.

Based on?

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Why jump to that conclusion though?

Surely if 40 percent of your business is cash & cheque you still have plenty of scope to fiddle the taxman. I take cash, card, cheque and bank transfer in my business. The average transaction is 300 yet more than half of people choose to pay cash. I don't understand how a business would have to refuse cards and cheques to avoid paying tax.

Same as that, we take no cheques, prefer and encourage card payments, yet some people insist on cash, no problem.

fritzelly

Dav010 wrote: »

AIB are 45c per €100 lodged, can someone please tell me that having a card machine is cheaper than paying 45c on €100 cash lodged in the bank.

That's for notes only

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

That's for notes only

I suspect most businesses who deal in smaller transactions, less than €50 try to return coins as change, I know we do.

fritzelly

Dav010 wrote: »

I suspect most businesses who deal in smaller transactions, less than €50 try to return coins as change, I know we do.

Then you'll be paying to get more change from the bank

Adyx

There's no obligation to give change for "legal tender" either but no business with an eye on their future would refuse to do it.

SEPT 23 1989

Chippers are the easiest way to stroke the taxman

Sure how many bags of chips could you make from a bag of spuds anyway?

Ally Dick

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I don't understand how a business would have to refuse cards and cheques to avoid paying tax.

Cash goes into the till, and back out again to pay your unofficial, trafficked worker some basic wages, and the cash doesn't go through the books either. You can fiddle your VAT and Corporation Tax as well, as the cash never hits a business account. You can hide it from the revenue. With cards and cheques, you will have to show it somewhere, and the revenue can go looking for it

54and56

Dav010 wrote: »

Based on?

My experience as an accountant and knowing people (friends/extended family) who operate cash businesses. I don't know one who doesn't under declare their income, fiddle the VAT and/or facilitate employees who also sign on the dole.

The people I know may not be representative of all owners of cash businesses hence it's just my opinion.

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

Then you'll be paying to get more change from the bank

You tend to get some coins in from the customer. I’m sure places like sweet shops need a lot of coins, but I doubt Chinese/barbers etc would, you can usually give back out a lot of what you take in.

Sleeper12

Dav010 wrote:

I suspect most businesses who deal in smaller transactions, less than €50 try to return coins as change, I know we do.

I agree. I think most small businesses have their own tricks to avoid high Bank fees

Lots of smaller business exchange coins between themselves. The local barber might need 100 euro per week in 2 euro coins and the local newsagents might provide these to avoid lodging them in the bank. I've heard of local churches providing small shops with coins so both avoid crazy bank fees.

54and56

54and56 wrote: »

My experience as an accountant and knowing people (friends/extended family) who operate cash businesses. I don't know one who doesn't under declare their income, fiddle the VAT and/or facilitate employees who also sign on the dole.

The people I know may not be representative of all owners of cash businesses hence it's just my opinion.

As their accountant, are you facilitating them?

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree. I think most small businesses have their own tricks to avoid high Bank fees

Lots of smaller business exchange coins between themselves. The local barber might need 100 euro per week in 2 euro coins and the local newsagents might provide these to avoid lodging them in the bank. I've heard of local churches providing small shops with coins so both avoid crazy bank fees.

Yip, we often get change from the eurosaver across the street and I have given coins at lunchtime to a local Insomnia.

54and56

Dav010 wrote: »

As their accountant, are you facilitating them?

I'm not their accountant.

Sleeper12

Ally Dick wrote:

Cash goes into the till, and back out again to pay your unofficial, trafficked worker some basic wages, and the cash doesn't go through the books either. You can fiddle your VAT and Corporation Tax as well, as the cash never hits a business account. You can hide it from the revenue. With cards and cheques, you will have to show it somewhere, and the revenue can go looking for it

I understand all of that. I've been in business over 30 years myself and have seen it all. My point was that most businesses that accept cards still have more than enough cash to fiddle taxman if they want. I was curious why the poster automatically thought businesses not taking cards =the fiddle the taxman when shops accepting cards can fiddle just as easily. Some landlords collect cash every week from their properties. This doesn't automatically mean that they fiddle tax.

54and56

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I understand all of that. I've been in business over 30 years myself and have seen it all. My point was that most businesses that accept cards still have more than enough cash to fiddle taxman if they want. I was curious why the poster automatically thought businesses not taking cards =the fiddle the taxman when shops accepting cards can fiddle just as easily. Some landlords collect cash every week from their properties. This doesn't automatically mean that they fiddle tax.

I think you are kind of answering your own question.

Cash only businesses are almost certainly on the fiddle. (IMHO)

Businesses accepting both cash and cards "could" be on the fiddle.

FishOnABike

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Chippers are the easiest way to stroke the taxman

Sure how many bags of chips could you make from a bag of spuds anyway?

Not as easy as you might think. Revenue profile businesses and any outliers are liable for an audit.

If it warrants it revenue can use surveillance to correlate deliveries (down to counting what is observed being delivered) with invoices and number of customers observed with till sales records. The more a business fiddles the books the more difficult it is to hide.

dxhound2005

54and56 wrote: »

I'm not their accountant.

If you are not their accountant why are they giving you details about their finances?

I don't know one who doesn't under declare their income, fiddle the VAT and/or facilitate employees who also sign on the dole.

54and56

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you are not their accountant why are they giving you details about their finances?

I don't know one who doesn't under declare their income, fiddle the VAT and/or facilitate employees who also sign on the dole.

The explanation was in my post, they are friends and extended family.

54and56

54and56 wrote: »

The explanation was in my post, they are friends and extended family.

Your family and friends just happen to tell you that they fiddle their taxes, then you extrapolate that to apply to “almost all” cash businesses?

54and56

Dav010 wrote: »

Your family and friends just happen to tell you that they fiddle their taxes, then you extrapolate that to apply to all cash businesses?

Wow, why are you misrepresenting what I'm saying?

They are friends and family, I can see what they do eg paying staff cash who are also on the dole and I did say that my sample may not be representative of the owners of all cash businesses but I my opinion, based on all the cash business owners I know, is that they all fiddle to one degree or other. Some may limit it to under declaring the odd job, or paying a bit of overtime in cash without declaring it for PAYE etc whereas others may be much more systemic eg the nail bar/Chinese examples given earlier.

dxhound2005

54and56 wrote: »

Wow, why are you misrepresenting what I'm saying?

They are friends and family, I can see what they do eg paying staff cash who are also on the dole and I did say that my sample may not be representative of the owners of all cash businesses but I my opinion, based on all the cash business owners I know, is that they all fiddle to one degree or other. Some may limit it to under declaring the odd job, or paying a bit of overtime in cash without declaring it for PAYE etc whereas others may be much more systemic eg the nail bar/Chinese examples given earlier.

Do any of them use accountants to do their books and taxes?

AndrewJRenko

I heard of one florist that has an extra till, the one that is based outside the shop to catch the passing customers, that is not declared to Revenue. Cash goes into the pockets of the owners.