Cash only shops

chrissb8

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Went into a little coffee shop the other day in Ballina and it was packed out, quite a queue in it.

A lady got up to pay, and wanted to use her phone to tap a card machine, but the lad behind the counter apologised, saying he had no card facilities whatsoever as they hadn't a phone line.

Myself and 3 others left the queue at that point.

See that's the thing I don't get. Why would you not accept card? You're just literally seeing business walking out the door.

Surely the loss of customers due to restrictive payment methods would outweight any incurred costs of having card payment facilities?

Then sometimes you get the eager "but there is a cashpoint just a minute down and across the road!"......I'm not coming back if I have to jump through any hoops just to get a coffee.

I'm the customer, make it as easy and convenient for me to make payment, not on your weird outdated payment terms.

emeldc

chrissb8 wrote: »

See that's the thing I don't get. Why would you not accept card? You're just literally seeing business walking out the door.

Surely the loss of customers due to restrictive payment methods would outweight any incurred costs of having card payment facilities?

Then sometimes you get the eager "but there is a cashpoint just a minute down and across the road!"......I'm not coming back if I have to jump through any hoops just to get a coffee.

I'm the customer, make it as easy and convenient for me to make payment, not on your weird outdated payment terms.

He said the place was packed.

gerrybbadd

emeldc wrote: »

He said the place was packed.

It was also tiny so it didn't take a lot to pack the place. I think there was maybe 2 left after we all bailed out!

Stovepipe

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Your not Irish unless you fiddle your tax. Half the people I know do foxers every Saturday and then come 5pm they sit in the pub watching the match complaining to the barman about how the foreigners are ruining the country. Declare your foxers to revenue then complain about the Immigrants taking your money.

....you're from Cork. Haven't heard that word, foxer, in years:D

Stovepipe

54and56 wrote: »

My experience as an accountant and knowing people (friends/extended family) who operate cash businesses. I don't know one who doesn't under declare their income, fiddle the VAT and/or facilitate employees who also sign on the dole.

The people I know may not be representative of all owners of cash businesses hence it's just my opinion.

......dead right. Underdeclaration of income is pretty much the first line on the tax defaulter's list that the Revenue publish. Every time you read the list, it's farmers, cafe or restaurant owners, service providers like hairdressers, beauticians, small builders, bus drivers and the usual coterie of landlords and PAYE workers caught doing nixers. The Revenue are not blind to the Chinese restaurants doing cash only, either. If a Chinese restaurant is still going, it's probably because they are compliant or compliant enough to keep the Revenue at bay.

Stovepipe

Ninthlife wrote: »

Whether its a cash only business or electronic payments, sale suppression happens in both. There are electronic point of sale software packages available that have 'zappers' or other in built methods that certain sales although to the customer look fine actually dont register in the system as a sale.

Same with hairdressers, take aways. Several appointment or order books may exist but only one is used to record taxable income.

......I use to live in D9 and a pub there had a habit called "five till Friday". On a Friday evening, the place would be packed and a fifth till would be brought out and stood up on the counter and the staff would put every fourth or fifth drink through it. Locals who knew about it, when ordering drink, would stand at the far end of the bar, nearest the first till and would have their order go through that till. Not out of any sense of tax holiness, mind you. When I asked the local who told me about the scam, he stated that unless his fourth or fifth drink was free, he wouldn't cooperate. It was clearly widely known amongst staff and some locals.

Voodoomelon

I don't care what anyone says, any restaurant that is "cash only" has a super high chance of being on the dodge. And you see it non stop with the foreign cuisine restaurants, presented with a scrawl of biro on a docket as the receipt.

Anywhere with half decent turnover can afford a card terminal/associated fees and if you're offering a good service, wifi and broadband for the terminal go hand in hand. The amount of places that also report "sorry, the card machine is out of order" or some other horsesh1t, I can't count the number of times I've heard that one.

Pure chancers.

partyguinness

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Your not Irish unless you fiddle your tax. Half the people I know do foxers every Saturday and then come 5pm they sit in the pub watching the match complaining to the barman about how the foreigners are ruining the country. Declare your foxers to revenue then complain about the Immigrants taking your money.

Living in England for the past 10 years and trust me the English are just as keen accept cash only.

Funnily enough I went to a Turkish barbers yesterday and the card machine was "not working". Yeah right. I had to pop to a cash machine and for the first time possibly this year to use an ATM.

Apparently in Greece you get discounts for paying in cash.

Voodoomelon

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I don't care what anyone says, any restaurant that is "cash only" has a super high chance of being on the dodge. And you see it non stop with the foreign cuisine restaurants, presented with a scrawl of biro on a docket as the receipt.

Anywhere with half decent turnover can afford a card terminal/associated fees and if you're offering a good service, wifi and broadband for the terminal go hand in hand. The amount of places that also report "sorry, the card machine is out of order" or some other horsesh1t, I can't count the number of times I've heard that one.

Pure chancers.

It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to see other people’s tax returns, where do you go to see them? Are everyone’s there? Just interested cause , you seem to know the details.

Voodoomelon

Dav010 wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to see other people’s tax returns, where do you go to see them? Are everyone’s there? Just interested cause , you seem to know the details.

The lack of official receipt is the obvious indicator.

CrankyHaus

Bit much to blame all of this on foreign businesses only. Cash deals seem to be the norm for large amounts of Irish tradesman.

Voodoomelon

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Cash deals seem to be the norm for large amounts of Irish tradesman.

I believe the word you're looking for is "huge" amounts. Hundreds of millions if not billions lost to the exchequer every year through the building trade.

Voodoomelon

Voodoomelon wrote: »

The lack of official receipt is the obvious indicator.

That’s it? Sorry, thought you were basing such a broad assumption of seeing their income and tax returns. No bother.

Still waters

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I believe the word you're looking for is "huge" amounts. Hundreds of millions if not billions lost to the exchequer every year through the building trade.

And the people paying them always look for a cash price, i just give a cash price with vat included and tell them that's a good cash price and lodge the cash, once they think they're getting a good deal they're happy, one can't exist without the other

Snails pace

Cash is a great job, not getting a whole heap of cash. I get cash for a few jobs I do which is great, it allows me to pay other people then with cash which is good. Keeping a bit off the books is grand you can use it for yourself.

AulWan

An ATM transaction will cost me 0.35c with Ulster Bank.

I'm not going to rack up ATM withdrawal fees to give my business to those who don't offer card payment facilities.

MrAbyss

If all business goes Cashless we will be total and complete slaves to the bankers.

Jimjay

Darc19 wrote: »

€20/month and the charge for debit cards is cheaper than the charge for lodging cash in a bank.

Credit card charge is less than 1%

No excuse these days.

€35 a month for the merchant account, €28 per month for the rental of the machine and then transaction charges are around €30- €80 per month All types of cards have a different charge, eg personal debit card, credit card, business debit card etc, So usually over €100 per month for my small business. I would lose over that in sales though if i didn't accept cards and business bank accounts charge for paying in cash.

fritzelly

Jimjay wrote: »

€35 a month for the merchant account, €28 per month for the rental of the machine and then transaction charges are around €30- €80 per month All types of cards have a different charge, eg personal debit card, credit card, business debit card etc, So usually over €100 per month for my small business. I would lose over that in sales though if i didn't accept cards and business bank accounts charge for paying in cash.

Who is your provider?
You're with the wrong company then, already mentioned Mypos, BOIPA have all in from €48 for €2000 worth of transactions, many others

Jimjay

fritzelly wrote: »

Who is your provider?
You're with the wrong company then, already mentioned Mypos, BOIPA have all in from €48 for €2000 worth of transactions, many others

Yes, im exploring options. Have just finished a 3 year contract with aib and clover mini system (which i really like). Does that all in option include the merchant account and machine rental or that just for the transactions? Will take a look.

fritzelly

Everything, paid direct into your business account the next day - but you would likely need a 3rd party POS system based on that clover system
(Thought it might have been AIB)

Jimjay

fritzelly wrote: »

Everything, paid direct into your business account the next day - but you would likely need a 3rd party POS system based on that clover system
(Thought it might have been AIB)

Cool thanks. The clover mini doesn't have POS (think you can add it for €50 a month extra. I use Airpointofsale.com and fairly happy with it.

The J Stands for Jay

riclad wrote: »

i have never seen anyone use a credit card in a chip shop.

The chipper in my village takes cards, and any time I've been in, the majority of customers are using cards

Jimjay

McGaggs wrote: »

The chipper in my village takes cards, and any time I've been in, the majority of customers are using cards

Yeah the two chippers near me both use card machines

riclad

Yhe chippers i use dont take credit card,s ,but
i,m sure theres plenty that do.
When i say chipper i dont mean mcdonalds or supermac,s .

freshpopcorn

I find there's a massive difference in card use between rural towns and more urban centers.
When I think of ot none of the local choppers take card.

AulWan

I don't know any that don't take cards! There may be some, but I haven't come across them.

Calhoun

chrissb8 wrote: »

See that's the thing I don't get. Why would you not accept card? You're just literally seeing business walking out the door.

Surely the loss of customers due to restrictive payment methods would outweight any incurred costs of having card payment facilities?

Then sometimes you get the eager "but there is a cashpoint just a minute down and across the road!"......I'm not coming back if I have to jump through any hoops just to get a coffee.

I'm the customer, make it as easy and convenient for me to make payment, not on your weird outdated payment terms.

Exactly, i never carry cash anymore and generally will keep away from places that don't accept cards.

Was a local shop in one of the small towns near here that up until last year didn't take cards in a town with no ATM and a garage close by with a shop that did take cards.

Guess which one is still in business.

YFlyer

There is a bike shop in Limerick where the owner if paid in cash for some items don't put the money through the till.

Usually for parts.

freshpopcorn

I actually know of business and there sort of a jewerals, gifts,etc. It's always a big joke about how they make their money.
I eventually ventured in there a few years ago. The till was open and everything was added up on a calculator.

Berserker5

Any job tradesmen were doing for cash you just bought the materials with cash so everything stays off the books

Otherwise your margins and vat are off

YFlyer

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree with the post above about expecting older folk to use cards. My own mother is mid to late 80s. She has a laptop that she can turn on and search for old movies etc. She can log in online to her bank accounts. It took us months to teach her how to login. She was able to use online banking and that's pretty good for someone pushing 90. Now her bank has introduced a system where they text out a different login code each time someone tries to login their account. Not unlike the code they text out when using your card online. Here's the thing, she doesn't know how to use a mobile phone. She doesn't want to use a mobile phone. Now as a result of this "wonderful" security step they have added, she can no longer use Internet banking. My sister has begged the bank to make an exception as my mother has never owned a mobile phone, or at least never used one when we bought her one. They refuse to send her a code via email even!

This is progress I'm told

Sounds like AIB. Why not change banks?

Chicken hut in limerick only takes cash and it’s annoying as **** and i asked over a year ago are they ever gonna card and they said soon but I guess it’s never coming

YFlyer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Chicken hut in limerick only takes cash and it’s annoying as **** and i asked over a year ago are they ever gonna card and they said soon but I guess it’s never coming

Can't even get a coffee there at night time. I used to pester them years ago.

That pub on the corner next to Abby Bridge don't take card either.

bodhrandude

MrAbyss wrote: »

If all business goes Cashless we will be total and complete slaves to the bankers.

Unless we the public decide to burn all banks and branches to the ground, they might rethink their policies then. :D

moycullen14

Came across a coffee stall in London (Ealing Broadway) recently that wouldn't take cash. Tap only.
Asked the guy why - Security and speed. He could run the stall on his own, no bother with cash and 'tap and go' worked out faster than arsing around with change, etc. Reckons he was losing virtually no business. Only very odd customer wouldn't be able to tap. His terminal was some device hooked up to his iphone.

Seems to work. Coffee was good anyway

freshpopcorn

moycullen14 wrote: »

Came across a coffee stall in London (Ealing Broadway) recently that wouldn't take cash. Tap only.
Asked the guy why - Security and speed. He could run the stall on his own, no bother with cash and 'tap and go' worked out faster than arsing around with change, etc. Reckons he was losing virtually no business. Only very odd customer wouldn't be able to tap. His terminal was some device hooked up to his iphone.

Seems to work. Coffee was good anyway

I think a coffee place does this in Dublin.
Seems like a way to keep out teenagers, homeless people, etc who are taking up seats.

Berserker5

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think a coffee place does this in Dublin.
Seems like a way to keep out teenagers, homeless people, etc who are taking up seats.

And cultural people

Deebles McBeebles

This thread begs the question (to me, after a quick skim, anyway), why don't we have any traveller cuisine restaurants?

easypazz

moycullen14 wrote: »

Came across a coffee stall in London (Ealing Broadway) recently that wouldn't take cash. Tap only.
Asked the guy why - Security and speed. He could run the stall on his own, no bother with cash and 'tap and go' worked out faster than arsing around with change, etc. Reckons he was losing virtually no business. Only very odd customer wouldn't be able to tap. His terminal was some device hooked up to his iphone.

Seems to work. Coffee was good anyway

Works fine until the card machine doesnt work some day.

But I did get the concept, not having to worry about cash being stolen and carrying a heap of coin etc.

54and56

easypazz wrote: »

Works fine until the card machine doesnt work some day.

But I did get the concept, not having to worry about cash being stolen and carrying a heap of coin etc.

Hardly the biggest challenge to overcome, just take cash while the app/device/internet isn't working!!

Berserker5

54and56 wrote: »

Hardly the biggest challenge to overcome, just take cash while the app/device/internet isn't working!!

How would you do it!!

54and56

Berserker5 wrote: »

How would you do it!!

Well you'd obviously first of all have to get some top 4 consultants in to develop a contingency plan and having written 4 versions and tested its robustness the contingency plan would be adopted by the coffee stall board of directors who would instruct the stall CEO that in the event of a problem with the tap and go machine he/she is to revert to the old analogue system of putting cash in his/her pocket/apron on a temporary basis whilst the tap and go outage was escalated to level 1 support for accelerated resolution.

Pauliedragon

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

This thread begs the question (to me, after a quick skim, anyway), why don't we have any traveller cuisine restaurants?

Eating my sister wouldn't appeal to me I know that much.:P

Blitzkrieger

BuboBubo wrote: »

Are the card machines expensive? I've been given that excuse in shops a few times.

Very late reply and this will probably be buried, but yes. A lot of merchant services providers charge you rent for the machine, VAT on the rent for the machine, and gouge you for a percentage of each transaction. There's different payment models from different companies - some are aimed at a small amount of big transactions and some at a large amount of small transactions, but despite what it costs to operate with cash, it is expensive, and tough to justify the cost on small transactions.

I couldn't believe how difficult it is to even get the costs from the providers. In this day and age we're used to comparing prices on the Internet and selecting the best deal for us. The providers almost never disclose their actual rates on the Internet - you make an inquiry and a sales person will try and swindle you into taking their deal. One provider wouldn't even tell me their ****ing rates. Three times I asked, and even gave an example of a quote I got from a competitor and they wouldn't answer. They kept asking for a face to face meeting like they were going to Jedi mind trick me or something. I haven't got time for that bull**** and suspect their price was higher than the competition anyway....

easypazz

54and56 wrote: »

Hardly the biggest challenge to overcome, just take cash while the app/device/internet isn't working!!

Would all your customers be carrying cash though? Lots of people don't bother any more.

You would still have to maintain a cash float, so if somebody presented with cash only would you not take cash and card?

54and56

easypazz wrote: »

Would all your customers be carrying cash though? Lots of people don't bother any more.

The question was in the context of a card only coffee stall having a payment terminal outage. Given the small transaction values and fixed cost nature of the business (rent of the pitch and staff wages or most of the days staff wages will be incurred regardless) it would make sense to open and take cash from those customers who do happen to have cash. I'd also advocate, if it was my business, that any regulars who didn't have cash could be given a days credit and trusted to pay for two coffees the following day when the payment service is back up and running. Customers, especially those who receive a good product/service, are more trustworthy than people generally think e.g. the honesty boxes for paying for water at airports and newspapers at Easons etc.

easypazz wrote: »

You would still have to maintain a cash float, so if somebody presented with cash only would you not take cash and card?

During a card outage in a card only coffee stall you wouldn't have to maintain a float to be able to take cash. The first few customers may have to pay the exact €3 or whatever for their coffee and if they didn't have the exact change they'd either have to be given discount, given credit (as above) or they'd leave the change you can't give them as a tip. After that you'd have built up a float and would be in business for the day.

easypazz

54and56 wrote: »

During a card outage in a card only coffee stall you wouldn't have to maintain a float to be able to take cash. The first few customers may have to pay the exact €3 or whatever for their coffee and if they didn't have the exact change they'd either have to be given discount, given credit (as above) or they'd leave the change you can't give them as a tip. After that you'd have built up a float and would be in business for the day.

Assuming they all have coins to begin with, and lots of people don't nowadays. So its off to an ATM which only dispenses notes, and then your concept of building a float as you go is fubar.

I accept that with a regular clientele they may be worthy of credit but Ealing Broadway is a railway station with perhaps a very transient customer base.

msmx5

I have to say that I find tap and go using google pay is quicker than a cash transaction in most cases now, especially if you don't want a paper receipt. (in most cases I'm happy with the electronic record in google pay). Chip-n-pin transactions take a bit longer but tap and go works very smoothly now in most cases - even in traditionally busy environments (like a pub) where a barman might have previously thrown his eyes to heaven if asked to pay by card - there is no back and forth to a till with cash and change (assuming there is good connectivity/internet/wifi the terminals approve transactions very quickly).

Its amazing how widespread electronic payments are now with many market stalls accepting cards via various types of new terminals connected to phones.

I know the thread specifically references "Cash only" shops and my daughter came across one of these in Dalkey recently, she ordered coffee and a scone and when she went to pay they had no machine - told her to drop the money in next time she was passing. I googled reviews of the coffee shop and about 40% of the comments mentioned that the staff were "sound" for allowing them to "drop the money in next time". Good reviews mind you but in this day it can't make good business sense.

The first totally cashless venue I came across was Twickenham stadium in 2018 where everywhere was card only.
Have a look at this article for some interesting background... GOING CASHLESS: BENEFITS AND PAYBACK one major benefit of non cash transactions is that it more or less eliminates theft by employees.

Most bars at the RDS for a Leinster Rugby games now operate separate Cash Only and Card Only sections - little difference in the speed of getting served.

Cash only establishments will become less common but cash will never go away completely - electronic transactions are here to stay, like it or not.

Darc19

54and56 wrote: »

They don't need any excuses. Cash is legal tender. Cards aren't. Businesses must accept legal tender, there's no obligation to accept cards and no compulsion to explain why you don't.

IMHO cash only businesses are almost all cheating PAYE, VAT and Corp Tax.

Incorrect.

You need to understand what legal tender is.

Only where a debt exists, does legal tender come into the situation.

A retail transaction is an agreed exchange.

A shop can refuse to take cash. A shop can also legally refuse to give change too. (they'd be out of business very quickly though)