Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

recyclebin

Last years engine must have been so dodgy that it hid all there other problems. The chickens have come home to roost. Quite similar to Toyota's dodgy turbocharger in their WRC cars in the 90's.

AMKC

Ye I would say moral at Ferrari must be at an all time low. Must be horrible working for the team at the moment

SMC92Ian

I see a lot of people full of hate for Ham and Merc, I think it's wrong, we shouldn't be angry at a team for their amazing work and driver, we should be mad at the teams below who are useless.

Today Bot and Ver could have had a chance to close the gap but no they were both meh. It's not that Merc are so good it's the rest of the pack is so ****e.

recyclebin

Bottas and Verstappen both appeared to have car issues. Bottas looked like he had an issue on one corner of the car and also had to keep the engine cool. He was driving to his engineers instructions like he always does and that's why he will never beat Hamilton.

Joeface

Hopefully this weekend brings even more eventful GP . I think only Ferrari and Alpha Tauri have driven @ Mugello this year and that was shake down or a test day early in the year. No team having data , no Team or driver really knowing the track
. I am sure all the usual stuff will be added that its hard to over take etc . Still looks like a nice track .

recyclebin

Perez has said that Verstappen crashed into him at the restart and damaged Perez car. It was never shown during race or on highlights as far as I can remember

ELM327

AMKC wrote: »

I wonder will that mean they will not get the legacy payment anymore or will they continue to get it? It would be a big mistake if they lost that. Maybe Renault Alpine would have been better than just Alpine F1. Renault are the ones with all the history in the sport after all and Alpine have zero even do they are owned by Renault.

It's the same team, so their payments wont be affected

recyclebin

Sainz must be sick of Gasly and Alpha Tauri at this stage. Gets his first podium, overshadowed by Gasly in second place. Gets his first second place finish overshadowed by Gasly again! Sainz must be wondering if he should have stayed with Toro Rosso back in the day.

Parsnips

mickdw wrote: »

I dont think we are hearing even a fraction of the story from Ferrari. There must be a complete fallout at the factory with staff not talking to each other etc.
Its certainly.more than an engine problem.

Well Vettell is so lucky that his breaks failed where they did.
Could have easily been the next Ayrton Senna if that as in a different area of the track.

Glad to have an exciting race this year for a change

duploelabs

Parsnips wrote: »

Well Vettell is so lucky that his breaks failed where they did.
Could have easily been the next Ayrton Senna if that as in a different area of the track.

Glad to have an exciting race this year for a change

I'd be interested (although I don't think the findings will be released) as to the cause of Leclerc's run off at parabolica. It looked like he lost the backend, which could have been caused by him hitting the green slippery bit, however it also could be caused by one of the rear brakes seizing. Given we say one of the rear wheels (complete with brake assembly) being removed on their own, still smoldering and covered in fire retardant.

Two brake failures on both cars definitely isn't a good look for ferrari, especially given the safety aspects at a high speed course like monza

ELM327

I was certain seeing the footage that leclerc's DNF was also caused by brake failure.

vectra

duploelabs wrote: »

I'd be interested (although I don't think the findings will be released) as to the cause of Leclerc's run off at parabolica. It looked like he lost the backend, which could have been caused by him hitting the green slippery bit, however it also could be caused by one of the rear brakes seizing. Given we say one of the rear wheels (complete with brake assembly) being removed on their own, still smoldering and covered in fire retardant.

Two brake failures on both cars definitely isn't a good look for ferrari, especially given the safety aspects at a high speed course like monza

You could be right, I was thinking more like a linkage or something gave way on the rear left of LeClerc's car.

duploelabs

vectra wrote: »

You could be right, I was thinking more like a linkage or something gave way on the rear left of LeClerc's car.

Thing is is that rear left was on the slippy AstroTurf that is outside the kerbing on the parabolica at the time

Killinator

Leclerc himself seemed to suggest he just pushed too far in a car not capable enough

vectra

duploelabs wrote: »

Thing is is that rear left was on the slippy AstroTurf that is outside the kerbing on the parabolica at the time

I didn't think it was. If you watch the replay, he seems to be correcting the car somewhat just before going off track.

eviltimeban

I get the call for reverse grid sprint races, but I don't see how they'll work. If you win the sprint race, you start the main race last? Why not just finish last in the sprint and be on pole?

rock22

vectra wrote: »

I didn't think it was. If you watch the replay, he seems to be correcting the car somewhat just before going off track.

Re-watched and it is clear he starts losing back it on track when he applies power but once his wheels drift onto the green he complete ly loses any chance of controlling it.
Le Clerc has admitted it was his fault.

Daxve

eviltimeban wrote: »

I get the call for reverse grid sprint races, but I don't see how they'll work. If you win the sprint race, you start the main race last? Why not just finish last in the sprint and be on pole?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/54063417

“If it was agreed, the sprint race grid would be set in reverse championship order, and the results of it would determine the grid for the main grand prix on the Sunday.“

The championship leader starts at the back and however far forward they get that’s where they start the main race.

eviltimeban

eviltimeban wrote: »

I get the call for reverse grid sprint races, but I don't see how they'll work. If you win the sprint race, you start the main race last? Why not just finish last in the sprint and be on pole?

I think the idea is they race for 30 minutes. If you are first in the drivers rankings at that particular time you will start in last pole position. If you’re at the bottom of the rankings you take first pole position. I don’t know how they work out who is at the front if a few drivers are still on zero points.

You then all race for 30 minutes and whatever position you cross the finish line in is where you will start for the real race on the Sunday.

jv2000

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I think the idea is they race for 30 minutes. If you are first in the drivers rankings at that particular time you will start in last pole position. If you’re at the bottom of the rankings you take first pole position. I don’t know how they work out who is at the front if a few drivers are still on zero points.

You then all race for 30 minutes and whatever position you cross the finish line in is where you will start for the real race on the Sunday.

The danger here is that the sprint/qualifying race will likely be far more interesting than the main event.

jv2000

jv2000 wrote: »

The danger here is that the sprint/qualifying race will likely be far more interesting than the main event.

True. But if last weekend is anything to go by, the Mercedes and Red Bulls may not have time to get from last to first so we’d have the excitement of them having to weave their way through from mid point in the main event too. Plus they’ll have to setup their cars differently which may show their weaknesses. This format would also spotlight driver capabilities again. Riccardo loves a scary overtake.

I think currently F1 changes can only come about with a unanimous decision. Mercedes already knocked it back before and I don’t think they’ll change their mind now.

jv2000

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

True. But if last weekend is anything to go by, the Mercedes and Red Bulls may not have time to get from last to first so we’d have the excitement of them having to weave their way through from mid point in the main event too. Plus they’ll have to setup their cars differently which may show their weaknesses. This format would also spotlight driver capabilities again. Riccardo loves a scary overtake.

I think currently F1 changes can only come about with a unanimous decision. Mercedes already knocked it back before and I don’t think they’ll change their mind now.

Yeah that's a good point and there will likely be driver attrition as well. Think about Hamilton trying to pull a pass on Grojean or Perez and it all goes wrong. Thinking about how Mercedes would have to evolve their cars for midfield scrapping is interesting too, they will need better cooling that's for sure.

quokula

Normally nothing goes in or out of the F1 rulebook without Mercedes approval. However there does seem to be some movement behind the scenes, the new Concorde agreement gives them slightly less power and the engine mode change is the first time in the hybrid era that a rule change was made that wasn't to Merc's benefit so that was an odd one. I do wonder if there was some kind of negotiation behind the scenes with all the other teams agreeing to fall in line and drop their appeals for more investigation into what was going on with Racing Point using illegal parts that Mercedes had provided them.

Dont be at yourself

I don't like the idea of reverse grid races, because it's not solving the actual issues:
- the huge gap between Mercedes and the rest of the field
- the difficulty for cars of similar performance to overtake one another

Sure, it's a borefest to watch Hamilton lead every lap of the race and win 40s clear of 2nd place, but it's equally boring to see him fly past Haas and Williams. Did anybody enjoy the spectacle of Kimi dropping from 3rd to 10th or whatever on Sunday?

We shouldn't use gimmicks to improve the spectacle -- fundamentally we want drivers in cars of similar performance, all being able to overtake one another. Hopefully the 2022 regulations, financial caps and wind tunnel limits etc will help us get there.

ELM327

Kimi falling back that quickly was quite upsetting. Naively I hoped Kimi would win or be on the podium given he was on the softs. The Alfa (and haas, williams etc) are too far behind to be competing. Now that's fine, back in the day for every grey McLaren there was a minardi, for every williams FW18 there was a tyrell etc

But back then (except 2 years in the early 2000's) there was always at least 2 if not 3 teams pretty close at the front. Enough that, for instance, in 1998 MSC's skill made up for the shortcomings of the car and nearly win the WDC. Not possible these days for Max.

flazio

ELM327 wrote: »

Kimi falling back that quickly was quite upsetting. Naively I hoped Kimi would win or be on the podium given he was on the softs. The Alfa (and haas, williams etc) are too far behind to be competing. Now that's fine, back in the day for every grey McLaren there was a minardi, for every williams FW18 there was a tyrell etc

But back then (except 2 years in the early 2000's) there was always at least 2 if not 3 teams pretty close at the front. Enough that, for instance, in 1998 MSC's skill made up for the shortcomings of the car and nearly win the WDC. Not possible these days for Max.

Hey, that's the 1971 constructors champion you know.

ELM327

flazio wrote: »

Hey, that's the 1971 constructors champion you know.

Absolutely, but they were a backmarker team when I started watching in the early 90's. I think they had Mika Salo then?

tipp_tipp_tipp

Regarding reverse grids, it's an idea that's been floating around for a while, but this is probably the most serious it's ever been considered. I'd like to see them try it. There's all kinds of arguments pro and against it. I'd like to see what a reverse grid race actually looks like. It would give everyone a chance to re-evaluate there opinions having seen it. My gut feeling is it something that would be fun to do a couple of times a year, but not every race. I think it would get old fast. Maybe use it at some of the duller venues to spice things up there.

recyclebin

Reverse grids are like golf handicaps. They should not be used when you get to the top level. There are better ways to even up the field. Budget caps will be one. Less wind tunnel time is another.

Oafley Jones

Are Renault paving the way for a tactical retreat from F1? Can’t imagine there’s much return on promoting Alpine.