Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

quokula

recyclebin wrote: »

Reverse grids are like golf handicaps. They should not be used when you get to the top level. There are better ways to even up the field. Budget caps will be one. Less wind tunnel time is another.

I don't know much about golf, but I assume at the top level there's not just one golfer who gets a much more powerful club than everyone else and they can't be beaten because of that.

There's basically a handicap system in F1 now. That's the problem.

vectra

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I don't like the idea of reverse grid races, because it's not solving the actual issues:
- the huge gap between Mercedes and the rest of the field
- the difficulty for cars of similar performance to overtake one another

Sure, it's a borefest to watch Hamilton lead every lap of the race and win 40s clear of 2nd place, but it's equally boring to see him fly past Haas and Williams. Did anybody enjoy the spectacle of Kimi dropping from 3rd to 10th or whatever on Sunday?

We shouldn't use gimmicks to improve the spectacle -- fundamentally we want drivers in cars of similar performance, all being able to overtake one another. Hopefully the 2022 regulations, financial caps and wind tunnel limits etc will help us get there.

Well, I wouldn't mind to see how the reverse grid would work out,
it is very easy to say how Hamilton breezed through the field. But to be fair,If max was ahead of him or another couple of worthy cars, he might not do it so easily.
Could amount to a bit of entertainment.

As for Kimi? I was gutted. I was hoping he would at least break in to the points. Tyre degradation was his issue.

ELM327 wrote: »

Kimi falling back that quickly was quite upsetting. Naively I hoped Kimi would win or be on the podium given he was on the softs. The Alfa (and haas, williams etc) are too far behind to be competing.

In fairness to Kimi he seems to be the leading Ferrari powered driver at the minute, He had no choice only use the softs on Sunday as it was the only set of tyres he had left and there was no way they were going to last.
He was going good until the fell off the cliff.

AMKC

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Are Renault paving the way for a tactical retreat from F1? Can’t imagine there’s much return on promoting Alpine.

I don't think so. It's a win win for them. They get to promote there Alpine sporting brand while also promoting the Renault name with the engines. They have invested a lot in new facilities and factories. So no I do not think they are planning to pull out.

GarIT

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

True. But if last weekend is anything to go by, the Mercedes and Red Bulls may not have time to get from last to first so we’d have the excitement of them having to weave their way through from mid point in the main event too. Plus they’ll have to setup their cars differently which may show their weaknesses. This format would also spotlight driver capabilities again. Riccardo loves a scary overtake.

I think currently F1 changes can only come about with a unanimous decision. Mercedes already knocked it back before and I don’t think they’ll change their mind now.

Also if it's an elimination race a driver at the back could be eliminated first if they don't overtake straight away.

duploelabs

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Are Renault paving the way for a tactical retreat from F1? Can’t imagine there’s much return on promoting Alpine.

The Alpine sports car is apparently very good so I assume they want to push that as opposed to the lightweight meganes which would be well established

GarIT

recyclebin wrote: »

Reverse grids are like golf handicaps. They should not be used when you get to the top level. There are better ways to even up the field. Budget caps will be one. Less wind tunnel time is another.

They aren't actually because of the compounding factor. A handicap can help a worse golfer to win. Reverse grids just favour the best overtaker instead of the fastest car.

ELM327

recyclebin wrote: »

Reverse grids are like golf handicaps. They should not be used when you get to the top level. There are better ways to even up the field. Budget caps will be one. Less wind tunnel time is another.

Agree 100 %

skipper_G

Jesus some F1 fans can't make their minds up, on one subject they're all yapping on about how F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, best teams building the best cars, driven by the best drivers. And then they will turn around and do logic somersaults to justify reverse grids. Reverse grids are a gimmick plain and simple, if we're going for gimmicks why not just go for a spec series or sprinklers while we're at it

rock22

skipper_G wrote: »

.....if we're going for gimmicks why not just go for a spec series or sprinklers while we're at it

Agree. And perhaps send a goatherd run a herd of goats onto the track to see who gets ahead. The whole thing is nonsense. F1 racing should be F1 racing with the best coming to the fore always, not being handicapped by ridiculous gimmicks.
The problem is the over regulation is stopping any inovation, supposedly to contain costs but we all know it didn't do that, it just produces the most poring period in F1 history.

Would love to see a team with Bridgestone tyres or a team with 6 wheels like Tyrell p34 or a team with with a 4.5 litre supercharged engine.

Frank Bullitt

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I see a lot of people full of hate for Ham and Merc, I think it's wrong, we shouldn't be angry at a team for their amazing work and driver, we should be mad at the teams below who are useless.

Today Bot and Ver could have had a chance to close the gap but no they were both meh. It's not that Merc are so good it's the rest of the pack is so ****e.

vectra

rock22 wrote: »

Agree. And perhaps send a goatherd run a herd of goats onto the track to see who gets ahead. The whole thing is nonsense. F1 racing should be F1 racing with the best coming to the fore always, not being handicapped by ridiculous gimmicks.
The problem is the over regulation is stopping any inovation, supposedly to contain costs but we all know it didn't do that, it just produces the most poring period in F1 history.

Would love to see a team with Bridgestone tyres or a team with 6 wheels like Tyrell p34 or a team with with a 4.5 litre supercharged engine.

Well, you see, isn't there a sort of handicap in place at the moment where literally any non merc team simply cannot develop their engines enough to catch merc because of rules?

I remember a time when every team had a chance to be the best,
Developement,
testing,
Pouring Money money money at it!
Right now there is only one best which is mercedes team.
Even look at last years pink merc, that car is going nowhere this year to be honest as it was a fully developed model with not much more room for improvement.

SMC92Ian

Go away with reverse grids, punishing the team who make the best car is stupid. I just don't get it, it's not Merc's fault the rest of the teams are useless. And I hate seeing them 1, 2 races but it's stupid to punish them. Sort out the rest of the field.

vectra

SMC92Ian wrote: »

Go away with reverse grids, punishing the team who make the best car is stupid. I just don't get it, it's not Merc's fault the rest of the teams are useless. And I hate seeing them 1, 2 races but it's stupid to punish them. Sort out the rest of the field.

It is in a way.

SMC92Ian

vectra wrote: »

It is in a way.

How? So it's Merc's fault Ferrari can't make a good engine and are a terrible team? Ok.

Man with broke phone

If its done right it could be great. Qualifying points would have to be given. More points for first place qualy than for a race win.

Points all the way down to second last too.


Never going to happen though and kind of does ruin the purity of it.

PukkaStukka

I said it here previously and more than once. Freezing development locks in advantages and what we saw in 2014-2016 was proof of that. Do we really want another rerun of the same ?

I have the solution!

vectra

SMC92Ian wrote: »

How? So it's Merc's fault Ferrari can't make a good engine and are a terrible team? Ok.

Ferrari
Honda
Renault

None of them can compete with Mercedes because they got a head start in development.
Since then it has been a game of catchup, which will not happen,
the answer is below .

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I said it here previously and more than once. Freezing development locks in advantages and what we saw in 2014-2016 was proof of that. Do we really want another rerun of the same ?

Man with broke phone

Hamilton the pleb is getting alot of flack for doing ads telling us about how he is reducing his carbon footprint by driving the new 80 grand electric merc.

He owns a pagani zonda and a private jet.

Really is a total phony. How anybody can buy anything he sells is beyond me.

SMC92Ian

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Hamilton the pleb is getting alot of flack for doing ads telling us about how he is reducing his carbon footprint by driving the new 80 grand electric merc.

He owns a pagani zonda and a private jet.

Really is a total phony. How anybody can buy anything he sells is beyond me.

He isn't driving the Zonda down to the shops or around town is he? And also lots of F1 teams have private jets.

vectra

SMC92Ian wrote: »

He isn't driving the Zonda down to the shops or around town is he? And also lots of F1 teams have private jets.

Do you know he doesn't drive it to thew shops and around town?

As for F1 teams having private jets?
How many of them are acting God?

duploelabs

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Hamilton the pleb is getting alot of flack for doing ads telling us about how he is reducing his carbon footprint by driving the new 80 grand electric merc.

He owns a pagani zonda and a private jet.

Really is a total phony. How anybody can buy anything he sells is beyond me.

Carbon offsetting is what you're referring to. And mistaking

AMKC

PukkaStukka wrote: »

I said it here previously and more than once. Freezing development locks in advantages and what we saw in 2014-2016 was proof of that. Do we really want another rerun of the same ?

So freeze Mercedes development and let the other teams and PU suppliers catch up. Then when they are all even just let it all go back to been even. We would get some great racing then. I think myself that Honda sre the ones who have done yhf best job with there unit but they had to do it the hard way and because if that probably now have the best PU after Mercedes then Renault and I would put the Ferrari unit last but it was 2nd last year and the years before too.

tipp_tipp_tipp

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Hamilton the pleb is getting alot of flack for doing ads telling us about how he is reducing his carbon footprint by driving the new 80 grand electric merc.

He owns a pagani zonda and a private jet.

Really is a total phony. How anybody can buy anything he sells is beyond me.

Genuine question, what else is he selling outside of his employers new car?

Man with broke phone

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Genuine question, what else is he selling outside of his employers new car?

Everything. He has a girl carrying around his bag of swag putting on his watches and caps and shades everytime he is out of the car. There is nothing he is pictured with that isnt paying him to sell.

When he is pictured with a popstar or model he is rumoured to be dating its more than likely because they need to raise their profile or sell an album.

He is a walking sandwhich board.

SMC92Ian

vectra wrote: »

Do you know he doesn't drive it to thew shops and around town?

As for F1 teams having private jets?
How many of them are acting God?

Cop on lad.

tipp_tipp_tipp

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Everything. He has a girl carrying around his bag of swag putting on his watches and caps and shades everytime he is out of the car. There is nothing he is pictured with that isnt paying him to sell.

When he is pictured with a popstar or model he is rumoured to be dating its more than likely because they need to raise their profile or sell an album.

He is a walking sandwhich board.

Fair enough. I literally see nothing of him between races. Thanks for the reply.

If I had to opportunity to earn megabucks by advertising a companies products, I’d take all the money they are willing to throw at me.

If he didn’t do it someone else would.

elperello

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Hamilton the pleb is getting alot of flack for doing ads telling us about how he is reducing his carbon footprint by driving the new 80 grand electric merc.

He owns a pagani zonda and a private jet.

Really is a total phony. How anybody can buy anything he sells is beyond me.

I don't really have much interest in chit chat about off track activities but it appears the jet was sold.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/what-happened-to-the-lewis-hamilton-private-jet/#:~:text=Apparently%2C%20the%20Lewis%20Hamilton%20private,VAT%20refund%20on%20the%20jet.

I usually buy what I want not what I'm told I want.

Man with broke phone

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Would you spend a month banging the BLM drum until they asked you to refuse to race for a week to show support then suddenly move on to banging the environment drum to sell electric mercedes while flying small cities around the world to guzzle gas at each huge city with the money to pay for it.
If he was genuine he would be driving formula E.

If it paid for pairs of Jimmy Choo’s and a mansion with large gates that locked out the rest of the world then ......

Yep.

I have no morals when it comes to shoes