Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Harika

pjohnson wrote: »

If only someone had said that so that your point would make sense......

Someone said it in the discussion around that last year, I remember that far too well...

pjohnson

Harika wrote: »

Someone said it in the discussion around that last year, I remember that far too well...

That Hulkenberg would challenge Verstappen?

rianmcn

Red Bull don't need someone to be on a par with Max. They need someone who can stay in Merc's pit stop window so that they're not outnumbered 2 to 1 up front and screwed strategy wise. Prime example is Hungary last year where Verstappen held off Hamilton after their pit stops but Hamilton pit again and came back to win with the much fresher tyres. If Gasly (which was actually his last race at RB) was in Hamilton's pit stop window, Vertsappen probably wins that race.

I think we'll see Hulk come in and Albon back down to AT to replace Kvyat with Tsunoda doing another year of F2.

Harika

pjohnson wrote: »

That Hulkenberg would challenge Verstappen?

The Kubica Part...

pjohnson

Harika wrote: »

The Kubica Part...

Ah the irrelevant bit. I was trying to stay somewhat relevant with the Hulkenberg/Albon part of your post. Rather than the random part.

Harika

pjohnson wrote: »

Ah the irrelevant bit. I was trying to stay somewhat relevant with the Hulkenberg/Albon part of your post. Rather than the random part.

Red Bull is second in the wdc, verstappen 3rd. Swapping a driver in from outside solves what problem?
When Hulk does not challenge verstappen he will still be between 4 and 7 in this fictional championship with no benefits whatsoever for red bull.
All you cause is a problem down the line for the junior program. If they cannot produce the next verstappen, Hamilton or Vettel they lose all purpose.
Edit
Also by adding a solid number two, I am thinking of screenshotting this and keeping it for the next time Mercedes is criticised for having bottas.

Man with broke phone

Why do people here seem to want Hulkenberg over Perez?

Is it his looks?

Is it the fact that he hasnt driven in a while and the longer you dont drive the better you get?

quokula

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Why do people here seem to want Hulkenberg over Perez?

Is it his looks?

Is it the fact that he hasnt driven in a while and the longer you dont drive the better you get?

I think it's the fact he's never got a car that was worthy of his talent, he's shone brilliantly and shown himself to be the best of the best in every single other category he's ever raced in, and he deserves a shot in a half decent car once in his career. Perez had that at McLaren, and has it again right now.

And while Perez did score a couple podiums while they were team-mates and Hulkenberg didn't, this was almost luck of the draw that he was ahead of Nico in a couple of races where the top teams had DNFs, while in the races where Nico beat Sergio, the top teams had no such issues.

Additionally, while Perez has had good results over his career, he's never done anything spectacular like putting a Williams on pole or overtaking the top cars to take the lead of a wet race in a Force India. Hulkenberg just has that level of untapped potential that I don't think we've seen from Perez.

kksaints

quokula wrote: »

I think it's the fact he's never got a car that was worthy of his talent, he's shone brilliantly and shown himself to be the best of the best in every single other category he's ever raced in, and he deserves a shot in a half decent car once in his career. Perez had that at McLaren, and has it again right now.

And while Perez did score a couple podiums while they were team-mates and Hulkenberg didn't, this was almost luck of the draw that he was ahead of Nico in a couple of races where the top teams had DNFs, while in the races where Nico beat Sergio, the top teams had no such issues.

Additionally, while Perez has had good results over his career, he's never done anything spectacular like putting a Williams on pole or overtaking the top cars to take the lead of a wet race in a Force India. Hulkenberg just has that level of untapped potential that I don't think we've seen from Perez.

I disagree with the last paragraph. Perez in 2012 had some fantastic performances coming very close to winning the Malaysian grand prix and finishing 2nd having started 12th in the Italian grand prix.

Man with broke phone

kksaints wrote: »

I disagree with the last paragraph. Perez in 2012 had some fantastic performances coming very close to winning the Malaysian grand prix and finishing 2nd having started 12th in the Italian grand prix.

I second that and think Perez offers a very steady set of hands and a different strategy option with his tire handling always available.

He would be well capable sitting a second behind max or trying a different stop strategy to cover all bases.

Hulkenberg is one of the few drives I think could get close to Verstappen. Going back to his F3 days he's had the ability to get the most out of equipment others couldn't. At worst he'll be roughly where Albon is.

skipper_G

quokula wrote: »

I think it's the fact he's never got a car that was worthy of his talent, he's shone brilliantly and shown himself to be the best of the best in every single other category he's ever raced in, and he deserves a shot in a half decent car once in his career. Perez had that at McLaren, and has it again right now.

And while Perez did score a couple podiums while they were team-mates and Hulkenberg didn't, this was almost luck of the draw that he was ahead of Nico in a couple of races where the top teams had DNFs, while in the races where Nico beat Sergio, the top teams had no such issues.

Additionally, while Perez has had good results over his career, he's never done anything spectacular like putting a Williams on pole or overtaking the top cars to take the lead of a wet race in a Force India. Hulkenberg just has that level of untapped potential that I don't think we've seen from Perez.

This is yet another example of the amazing leaps in logic that occur on here on a regular basis. Perez and Hulkenberg were teammates for 3 years, during that time Perez heat Hulk in 2 out of 3 seasons, he scored more total points than Hulk, he scored 4 podiums to Hulk's 0. But yeah you go ahead and put it down to luck. I like Nico, he's a grand dependable inoffensive driver. That being said, he's had plenty of chances to shine and never delivered on his promise. He wouldn't be a bad option for anyone, but to suggest he's better than Perez is total nonsense.

vectra

Can't understand what the internet hype is with Hulkenberg.

Dont be at yourself

RB need somebody who can reliably qualify 4th, and so be a factor in the pit strategies of Mercedes.

Albon has two top-four finishes this year, and a very poor qualifying record. He's shown glimpses of talent carving through the field, but that's of no help to RB in a title fight.

As for Alpha Tauri; Kvyat is a known quantity at the moment so if Tsunoda has potential, put him in the car. I don't see Gasly going back to Red Bull, but if the plan is for the team to be a 'sister team's to RB, that's not really an issue.

El_Duderino 09

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

RB need somebody who can reliably qualify 4th, and so be a factor in the pit strategies of Mercedes.

Albon has two top-four finishes this year, and a very poor qualifying record. He's shown glimpses of talent carving through the field, but that's of no help to RB in a title fight.

As for Alpha Tauri; Kvyat is a known quantity at the moment so if Tsunoda has potential, put him in the car. I don't see Gasly going back to Red Bull, but if the plan is for the team to be a 'sister team's to RB, that's not really an issue.

The second red bull driver should be able to qualify 4th IF the car is second best on the grid. And I think there's conflicting evidence on that.

If an AT driver qualifies around 10th and then moves to RB and continues to qualify around 10th then thr logical conclusion is that the cars have similar pace. If that happens with 3 drivers in a row then the evidence is pretty strong that the car isn't the second best on the grid.

I think it's likely that Max is an excellent driver. I think it's very possible that Hamilton is the only driver on the grid who could get the RB to the second row in quali every week.

I think it looks like Newey has lost his touch over the last few years.

GarIT

I don't think Max could be lapping everyone but the top 6 in some races if it wasn't the second best car. If he was the best driver in the 3rd best car he wouldn't be regularly finishing 30-40 seconds ahead of 4th imo.

El_Duderino 09

GarIT wrote: »

I don't think Max could be lapping everyone but the top 6 in some races if it wasn't the second best car. If he was the best driver in the 3rd best car he wouldn't be regularly finishing 30-40 seconds ahead of 4th imo.

OK. But how do you explain the three drivers who have been promoted and demoted from AT and are so much further down the grid than max?

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. But how do you explain the three drivers who have been prompted and demoted from AT and are so much further down the grid than max?

Mediocrity

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Mediocrity

OK. That's against the grain as Gasley is usually regarded as better than mediocre at the moment. The gaps between Albon and verstappen are even bigger than the gaps between kubica and Russell for example and that ability gap was regarded as pretty big.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OK. That's against the grain as Gasley is usually regarded as better than mediocre at the moment. The gaps between Albon and verstappen are even bigger than the gaps between kubica and Russell for example and that ability gap was regarded as pretty big.

Gasly is better than Albon and Kvyat.
Compared to Max however, the delta is so huge that the others are all mediocre. And the car seems to suit maxs driving style.

Adamocovic

Would absolutely love to see Hulkenberg in the RedBull. It would be a dream!

Adamocovic

ELM327 wrote: »

Gasly is better than Albon and Kvyat.
Compared to Max however, the delta is so huge that the others are all mediocre. And the car seems to suit maxs driving style.

Red Bull in a tricky spot.

Gasly has reacted the best to being dropped. He's used it as a chip on his shoulder and has become a way more focused and determined driver.

Kvyat mind you is still a good driver and showing it. Albon's extremely marketable but has been woeful this year.

Now you add the promising Tsunoda to the mix and even the possibility of Hulkenberg (as slim as it is), they really are stacked with options to fill the 4 seats.

Max has his, but what they do with the remaining 3 is going to be interesting.

flazio

Hulkenberg is also a Le Mans winner, from a time when it was more competitive then it is at the moment.

Joeface

and now theres this

"Gasly negotiates with Renault about Ocon’s seat in 2022’"

https://alkhaleejtoday.co/sport/5096996/%E2%80%98Gasly-negotiates-with-Renault-about-Ocon%E2%80%99s-seat-in-2022%E2%80%99.html

El_Duderino 09

Joeface wrote: »

and now theres this

"Gasly negotiates with Renault about Ocon’s seat in 2022’"

https://alkhaleejtoday.co/sport/5096996/%E2%80%98Gasly-negotiates-with-Renault-about-Ocon%E2%80%99s-seat-in-2022%E2%80%99.html

Thrt would be a good move for Gasley. He's not going to get offers from merc or ferrari. Renault might be going places based on recent improvements.

The top 2 teams are the top 2, ferrari will probably sort themselves out to an extent again in a season or 2. Then you have the teams with potential which are mclaren, Renault and Racing point. The goal of any driver has to be to get into one of those teams.

time will tell which of those teams can excel and which fail to develop. Fair play Gasley and I hope the move goes well. I find myself cheering for Gasley. Can't help liking him.

A reminder that Ferrari being a joke is nothing new. Race started under Safety Car and all told to start on full wets. Ferrari go ahead and start on Inters and had to come in to change them. Could have turned out worse than it did but yeah, idiots.

(That guy's channel has been getting a lot of traffic from me. Nice long highlights race by race from 2007 coming out a few times a week lately. Not sure what season he'll do next as he doesn't seem to go in order.)

Inquitus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Thrt would be a good move for Gasley. He's not going to get offers from merc or ferrari. Renault might be going places based on recent improvements.

The top 2 teams are the top 2, ferrari will probably sort themselves out to an extent again in a season or 2. Then you have the teams with potential which are mclaren, Renault and Racing point. The goal of any driver has to be to get into one of those teams.

time will tell which of those teams can excel and which fail to develop. Fair play Gasley and I hope the move goes well. I find myself cheering for Gasley. Can't help liking him.

Agreed there are only 4 teams I would consider as a driver at the moment, the obvious - Mercedes and Redbull, and the best of the rest Renault and McLaren.

Renault are really improving both with engine and chassis.
McLaren's Chassis seems decent and the addition of Mercedes engines will give them a very welcome boost in 2021.

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote: »

Agreed there are only 4 teams I would consider as a driver at the moment, the obvious - Mercedes and Redbull, and the best of the rest Renault and McLaren.

Renault are really improving both with engine and chassis.
McLaren's Chassis seems decent and the addition of Mercedes engines will give them a very welcome boost in 2021.

That's very true in the short term.
Racing point has been a big disappointment this year especially given all the hype.

PopePalpatine

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That's very true in the short term.
Racing point has been a big disappointment this year especially given all the hype.

I wonder what compromises they needed to make to the W10 for it to survive running in traffic.

El_Duderino 09

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder what compromises they needed to make to the W10 for it to survive running in traffic.

A lot is made of the Mercedes struggling in traffic but don't the all struggle in traffic with turbulent air, including the Mercedes?/Racing point? Lots of faster cars end up following slower cars for tens of laps without being able to pass. Has Racing point been the clear second or third best team in quali? They've been up there a few times but certainly not consistently with both cars.

Bottas really struggles to overtake at times and Hamilton had much less difficulty. But we already know Hamilton is faster than bottas.