Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

tipp_tipp_tipp

Thanks for the replies guys. Interesting stuff. Would be gas if he left. Wonder who would get that seat next year if he did.

El_Duderino 09

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys. Interesting stuff. Would be gas if he left. Wonder who would get that seat next year if he did.

Russell would be next in line. I’d say they could win both titles with bottas and Russell.

klose

Probably wants 100 wins too, has a nice ring to it and should have that chalked off nicely with one more season.

This is it

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i cant see him giving up the high chance of an 8th championship

This. I could see him leaving after next year with all the changes and then having 8 championships and 100+ race wins

Ikozma

Great to see Hamilton drinking out of Danny rics boot too

Jordan 199

I will miss Lewis when he retires.

This is it

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I will miss Lewis when he retires.

I certainly won't.

PukkaStukka

Not only is there stuff swirling around about Lewis' future, but now similar is too about Wolff. Is this all being engineered to inflate pay packets or is there some truth to it? Time will tell.

Oh, and I'm most definetly not one of Lewis' biggest fan's either, but his results do have to be acknowledged.

mickdw

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Not only is there stuff swirling around about Lewis' future, but now similar is too about Wolff. Is this all being engineered to inflate pay packets or is there some truth to it? Time will tell.

Oh, and I'm most definetly not one of Lewis' biggest fan's either, but his results do have to be acknowledged.

Toto pretty much said he was done after the race today whether that means end of this season or later.

recyclebin

mickdw wrote: »

Toto pretty much said he was done after the race today whether that means end of this season or later.

Didn't see that. What exactly did he say? Was it on tape or hearsay?

Man with broke phone

I wonder did the same fella who decided it was a good idea to keep Stroll over Perez decide it was a good idea to pit Perez when he was 8 seconds ahead in third on newer tyres than the guy in fourth.

Rediculous. To think whoever that guy is has more of a chance of a job in F1 next year than checo who started in 11 and got to a podium place pisses me off.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well, he could walk away in the sense that anything’s possible. He also has other interests* outside f1 and most of them aren’t things that would interest me, but if he wants to do those things while he’s still young, then it increases the chances of him leaving.

He is also not going to get the same money this year or ever again in his career (FIA payment to teams are halving next year and I’m sure lots of other revenue streams are way down). It might be very demotivating to do the same work for less money.

So those things will encourage him to go do other things, but it’s still overwhelmingly likely he’ll stay on next year. I wonder if they could pay him in equity rather than cash?

There haven’t even been rumours of him retiring - but there weren’t rumours of Rosberg retiring either.

*his interests are as varied as fashion, singing, electric racing team ownership and civil rights activism. Plenty to be getting on with if he wanted a change of scenery

He also want to go to space do a sky dive and some other exciting things. I just hope it's not one of these endeavors that ends up killing him as has happened other F1 drivers after they retire. It's always when you are doing that one thing that you are not yet great at and do not have much experience of that it's most dangerous.

El_Duderino 09

Man with broke phone wrote: »

I wonder did the same fella who decided it was a good idea to keep Stroll over Perez decide it was a good idea to pit Perez when he was 8 seconds ahead in third on newer tyres than the guy in fourth.

Rediculous. To think whoever that guy is has more of a chance of a job in F1 next year than checo who started in 11 and got to a podium place pisses me off.

On the topic of pit stops under safety car, I think it shouldn’t benefit them to pit under safety car. Either the safety car should mean the pit lane is closed or the pit lane speed should be reduced to negate an advantage (or just wait like a stop/go penalty before they can service the car). In any case, there’s no good reason the safety car should have a major impact on pit strategy in the way it does.

It was acute today because we were robbed of a race but I always think it’s silly that the safety car gives people a semi-free pit stop so it’s just luck of the draw whether they’ve pitted or not when the safety car comes out.

mickdw

recyclebin wrote: »

Didn't see that. What exactly did he say? Was it on tape or hearsay?

He said as co owner, he is not walking away and will be around for awhile but everyone has a shelf life. he said he has a replacement in mind but will be around for a while to bring them along.
It just sounded like he was happy with the 7 title and looking to step back alittle.

TCP/IP

Great to see Danny Ric’s podium today.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

3) You have no answer for that? But you asserted they are developing the car around Leclerc and it's hurting Vettel. (I've been asking you the same question since your baseless assertion and it's taken you until now to admit you haven't a clue. Do you even remember saying it?

Here's what you said.


So the next question is: To what do you attribute the performance gap from Leclerc back to Vettel?

4) the evidence we see on track - the evidence we all have in terms of measured time to do a lap of the circuit (a very common way to measure teammates relative performances), the position in which drivers qualify for each race, the position in which the drivers finish and a total of the points the score as the season progresses. Leclerc is winning on all those metrics.

Can you think of any ways to measure their relative performances which would paint Vettel in a positive light compared to his young teammate?

Let's hope it doesn't take you 2 days to answer these questions. I've bolded them for you to help you remember lol

Wow,
That was a brilliant answer. "how long is a piece of string"
It is as obvious as the nose on your face that he who crosses the line first is fastest.

My question to you was "where" do you think Vettel is losing time?

muckwarrior

This is it wrote: »

I certainly won't.

As much as I dislike him, I wouldn't like to see him retire before being teamed up with someone good again. It's wishful thinking, but it'd be great to see him in the same car as Verstappen/LeClerc/Ricciardo and then we'd see how good he really is (or isn't).

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Wow,
That was a brilliant answer. "how long is a piece of string"
It is as obvious as the nose on your face that he who crosses the line first is fastest.

My question to you was "where" do you think Vettel is losing time?

He’s losing time on the track. I don’t know where precisely and I’m not sure why your question means. Are you asking me if he’s losing time on corner entry or exit, fast corners or slow corners, that kind of thing? If so, I don’t know because I don’t have the evidence to make those claims. But I’m sure we can agree Vettel is embarrassingly off LeClerc’s pace. I don’t think we need to know WHERE he’s losing time to observe that he IS losing time. Do you know the answer?

So, what’s your answers to the questions I asked?

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you mean is he losing time on sorbet entry or exit

Sorbet entry mid race would certainly cost him time.

LollipopJimmy

Indeed... However claiming different machinery etc for Vettel is clutching at straws. Vettel has struggled since the introduction of the turbo hybrid motors. No doubt he is a talented driver and can drive a fast car fast but certainly can't get the most out of sub par machinery the way drivers like Schumacher did or Verstappen is now.

Rather than me saying he's just not that good, let's forget all of the unforced errors over the last few seasons I'll just say the current engine formula doesn't suit him.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He’s losing time on the track. I don’t know where precisely and I’m not sure why your question means. Are you asking me if he’s losing time on corner entry or exit, fast corners or slow corners, that kind of thing? If so, I don’t know because I don’t have the evidence to make those claims. But I’m sure we can agree Vettel is embarrassingly off LeClerc’s pace. I don’t think we need to know WHERE he’s losing time to observe that he IS losing time. Do you know the answer?

So, what’s your answers to the questions I asked?

Of course we need to know.
You already pointed the finger at Ferrari for cheating.
Now you are pointing the finger at Vettel accusing him of being done and dusted.

How about we need to see why Charles car appears to be faster/quicker than Seb's car?
Maybe it is Seb's car is embarrassingly off Charles car!

El_Duderino 09

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Indeed... However claiming different machinery etc for Vettel is clutching at straws. Vettel has struggled since the introduction of the turbo hybrid motors. No doubt he is a talented driver and can drive a fast car fast but certainly can't get the most out of sub par machinery the way drivers like Schumacher did or Verstappen is now.

Rather than me saying he's just not that good, let's forget all of the unforced errors over the last few seasons I'll just say the current engine formula doesn't suit him.

His decline might have started around the start of the hybrid era, but that doesn't mean it caused it. Correlation does not equal causation. He put in some good performances in 2017 and early 2018.

And even if he isn't very good in the hybrid era, that speaks volumes about him in an overall sense. You could say the hybrid era doesn't suit him, or you could say he's not suited to F1. But I don't think the Hybrid era argument is based on anything except a loose correlation.

kksaints

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

His decline might have started around the start of the hybrid era, but that doesn't mean it caused it. Correlation does not equal causation. He put in some good performances in 2017 and early 2018.

And even if he isn't very good in the hybrid era, that speaks volumes about him in an overall sense. You could say the hybrid era doesn't suit him, or you could say he's not suited to F1. But I don't think the Hybrid era argument is based on anything except a loose correlation.

Vettel was also quite good in 2015 and got some good wins when he was the only one close to challenging the Mercedes. I think the 2018 season did cause him a lot of damage, that horrible crash in Germany where he went off under no pressure, some sloppy errors in China and Italy, the fact that people thought the Ferrari was the best car when the Mercedes actually had better race pace and Hamilton's sheer consistency that made him almost to defeat.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Of course we need to know.
You already pointed the finger at Ferrari for cheating.
Now you are pointing the finger at Vettel accusing him of being done and dusted.

How about we need to see why Charles car appears to be faster/quicker than Seb's car?
Maybe it is Seb's car is embarrassingly off Charles car!

No, we don't need to know where he's losing the time to Leclerc to observe that he's losing time to Leclerc. We can measure lap times, quali positions, race finsihes and points totals to determine that Vettel is indeed, slower than Leclerc. I haven't said he's "done and dusted", but i have observed (accurately) that he's miles off Leclerc's pace. Likewise, I don't need to know WHERE Albon is losing time to Max to observe that he is indeed miles off Max's pace.

Be sure to let us know when you come up with answers to the questions i asked you. Just a reminder:
"So the next question is: To what do you attribute the performance gap from Leclerc back to Vettel?

Can you think of any ways to measure their relative performances which would paint Vettel in a positive light compared to his young teammate?"

El_Duderino 09

kksaints wrote: »

Vettel was also quite good in 2015 and got some good wins when he was the only one close to challenging the Mercedes. I think the 2018 season did cause him a lot of damage, that horrible crash in Germany where he went off under no pressure, some sloppy errors in China and Italy, the fact that people thought the Ferrari was the best car when the Mercedes actual had better race pace and Hamilton's sheer consistency that made him almost to defeat.

Yeah, I don't hold with the argument that he doesn't suit the hybrid era

2011

This is it wrote: »

I certainly won't.

I’m not a Lewis fan by any stretch, but I would hate to loose him if he was in the same car as a competitive driver or in a car that would give me less advantage over the rest of the field. I think he is a descent above average F1 driver that has not had the chance to prove he is anymore than that due to the massive advantage that the Mercs give him. I would love to see him in the same car as a top notch driver such as Danny Ric, Max, Leclerc. Then we could see what he is really like. Even a die hard Lewis fan has to admit that the Merc gives him a massive advantage. Last time he was up against a descent driver (Rosberg) in the same car, he lost.

ELM327

2011 wrote: »

I’m not a Lewis fan by any stretch, but I would hate to loose him if he was in the same car as a competitive driver or in a car that would give me less advantage over the rest of the field. I think he is a descent above average F1 driver that has not had the chance to prove he is anymore than that due to the massive advantage that the Mercs give him. I would love to see him in the same car as a top notch driver such as Danny Ric, Max, Leclerc. Then we could see what he is really like. Even a die hard Lewis fan has to admit that the Merc gives him a massive advantage. Last time he was up against a descent driver (Rosberg) in the same car, he lost.

He lost to Rosberg. He lost over 3 years to Mediocre Button, he striggled to beat an alonso in 07 that had his and the team's mind made up on leaving half way throuigh the season. Kovaleinen was worse than bottas.

I'd love to have seen him in a decent match against a teammate. Even rosberg is hardly a tier 1 / god tier that lewis and his fanboys so desperately claim him to be.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

He lost to Rosberg. He lost over 3 years to Mediocre Button, he striggled to beat an alonso in 07 that had his and the team's mind made up on leaving half way throuigh the season. Kovaleinen was worse than bottas.

I'd love to have seen him in a decent match against a teammate. Even rosberg is hardly a tier 1 / god tier that lewis and his fanboys so desperately claim him to be.

Yeah it would be great to see him against a good teammate in the Mercedes.

I think you’re brushing over his defeat of Alonso. For example you didn’t mention is was his debut year in f1.

In any case, it’s a long time ago and he hasn’t had a top driver as a teammate since Roaberg, and I don’t think everyone would rate Rosberg as a top driver.

This is it

I just can't see him ever being against a relatively equal driver so by him staying, in my opinion, just means more of the same. He'll cruise to another championship and we'll have to pin our hopes on decent midfield battles to make F1 somewhat exciting. If he was up against a decent driver I'd love if he stayed, even if it meant he still won. It's excitement at the front/throughout the field that I want.

BikeRacer

ELM327 wrote: »

He lost to Rosberg. He lost over 3 years to Mediocre Button, he striggled to beat an alonso in 07 that had his and the team's mind made up on leaving half way throuigh the season. Kovaleinen was worse than bottas.

I'd love to have seen him in a decent match against a teammate. Even rosberg is hardly a tier 1 / god tier that lewis and his fanboys so desperately claim him to be.

I see the mental gymnastics have peaked.
Imagine someone in their rookie year stringing 9 podiums together in his opening 9 races, with the reigning world champion as his teammate and call that 'struggled'. He embarrassed Alonso that year by beating him in the championship. To say anything else is delusional.