Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Faugheen

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Well, you’re right insofar as Toto said he was still on their radar and he was leaving on good terms because they just didn’t have a seat for him. So they might sign him again in future. But he wouldn’t be in the mix for this kind of short term deal as he’s under a normal contract to Renault.

Mercedes might offer a sweetened deal on engines to Williams if they release him. Does anyone know if Russell’s contract allows him to stand in for Mercedes

I would imagine that even if there is no such clause, Williams’ arm won’t be hard to twist, probably with a sweetened deal on engines.

pjohnson

I think it'll most likely be Stoffel but I think (cant find link) Toto mentioned negotiations with an experienced licensed driver to replace Gutierrez when it came out he had let his license lapse. It was speculated it was Hulkenberg, since it never actually became official I doubt it however.

Dont be at yourself

This Bahrain 'oval' is a good track for a new driver to come in. Fairly straightforward, power-sensitive track and all drivers will have equal experience of it, so you'd imagine whoever Hamilton's replacement is has a fair shot of a podium.

quokula

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

This Bahrain 'oval' is a good track for a new driver to come in. Fairly straightforward, power-sensitive track and all drivers will have equal experience of it, so you'd imagine whoever Hamilton's replacement is has a fair shot of a podium.

"A fair shot of a podium" would be a pretty poor result for Mercedes though. If they don't beat Verstappen they've failed.

Hulkenberg or Russell should be capable of winning the race quite comfortably as they're both good drivers with current F1 experience. Vandoorne may find it tougher because he's so used to Formula E now and those cars are very different, so it would be a much bigger adjustment. I'd still expect him to be on the podium, but it would be a big ask to get up to speed and beat Bottas immediately.

ELM327

I would laugh so hard if the "new guy" beats bottas.
So so hard.

klose

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but that assumes normal circumstances. So at the first race they’ve al had the test sessions in Spain, loads of simulation work and then they turn up for the first race. If it’s the last race then they’ve all got the experience of the entire season in the car too.

Last time I remember a driver changing car this late in the season was fisechella moving from force India to Ferrari and that was a disaster.

Tongue was slightly in cheek I must admit when I made the comment I must confess, will be interesting to see how it goes in any case

the_pen_turner

i hope russel stays where he is. he is not that far off breaking the record for beating your teammate in qualifing . shame to lose that streak

GarIT

I wish F1 was more like WWE. Hulkenberg v Bottas, loser retires.

Rossi IRL

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i hope russel stays where he is. he is not that far off breaking the record for beating your teammate in qualifing . shame to lose that streak

Could still get the record in the merc

quokula

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i hope russel stays where he is. he is not that far off breaking the record for beating your teammate in qualifing . shame to lose that streak

He could still get that in Mercedes. Nice way to complete it with a pole position too.

the_pen_turner

quokula wrote: »

He could still get that in Mercedes. Nice way to complete it with a pole position too.

that would be amazing but i dont think it would happen. bottas is too good and too used to the car.
i think he would play it safe and qualify 4-5th

recyclebin

Hulkenberg must be in with a shout having already driven the pink 2019 mercedes

El_Duderino 09

quokula wrote: »

"A fair shot of a podium" would be a pretty poor result for Mercedes though. If they don't beat Verstappen they've failed.

Hulkenberg or Russell should be capable of winning the race quite comfortably as they're both good drivers with current F1 experience. Vandoorne may find it tougher because he's so used to Formula E now and those cars are very different, so it would be a much bigger adjustment. I'd still expect him to be on the podium, but it would be a big ask to get up to speed and beat Bottas immediately.

No. Come on. That’s not how it works. They need time to get used to the car. Bottas is an above average driver and he fails to win every race or “comfortably” beat every other team.

Drivers need time to get the best out of the car. It’s not as simple as jumping in the car and winning the race. That overlooks all the skill and craft the drivers develop with the car.

Mitch Connor

what would the point of bringing up george russell?

Unless they actualy think or expect Hamilton to leave f1 this off-season then I don't see what they gain?

They take a driver off Williams (so Williams then need a replacement Hulk? Vandorne?) and then it is probably only for 1 race.

If he outshines Bottas then it raises questions as to why Bottas has the seat for next season, which he does. if he doesn't do well then you've also gained nothing.

Merc have the constructors wrapped up so the safe option imo is to go with Vandoorne as it doesn't pose any awkward questions after the race or require upheaval in another team as well.

If Hamilton and Bottas are indeed a lock for next season, giving Russell the race doesn't make sense.

Mitch Connor

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No. Come on. That’s not how it works. They need tomentongetbused to the car. Bottas is an above average driver and he fails to win every race or “comfortably” beat every other team.

Drivers need time to get the best out of the car. It’s not as simple as jumping in the car and winning the race. That overlooks all the skill and craft the drivers develop with the car.

Ah, but you are forgetting that Hamilton only wins races cause his car is 1 second a lap better than everyone else. Hamiton is an average driver at best and only beats Bottas cause Bottas is not even average and even then Merc deliberately detune Bottas' car just incase he might get close to Hamilton.

Or that is what some seem to think.

Jordan 199

I agree with everything Mitch says.

jv2000

For me Mercedes need to try Russel for this race (and maybe the next one as well). Put Vandoorne in the Williams and if he beats Latifi then great. There has been a question over how good Russel really is for quite a while. It is now time for Toto to prove it and give him the shot. He has been driving in F1 all season with a Merc engine and a far inferior aero package and that should help acclimatize him to the car. Bottas does his best work during qualifying and Russel is similar, would love to see the match-up. Bottas needs to up his game because he has been dire this season.

Also I must say that there is something a bit odd about all of this. Both championships secured and no contract signed by Hamilton..... Could be a great opportunity to test out replacements. Probably not the case but who knows the politics especially if Hamilton is refusing to sign a new contract!

jv2000

https://twitter.com/svandoorne/status/1333720264081879040?s=20

Professional trolling

GarIT

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what would the point of bringing up george russell?

Data

H3llR4iser

Can't really see them bringing up Russel for 2 races only to drop him back to Williams; it's also too risky in case he underperforms (which is possible, considering he doesn't know the car well).

Vandoorne is the logical option - he's not on the F1 radar anyway, and they don't really need someone to be winning races as Bottas can (well theoretically...) take care of that and the championships are both decided.

I'd watch out for Verstappen and Albon however, they were in close contact for the podium cerimony. And OFC Bottas, if Lewis was carrying the virus during the week end. Might become a race of the reserve drivers...

El_Duderino 09

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what would the point of bringing up george russell?

Unless they actualy think or expect Hamilton to leave f1 this off-season then I don't see what they gain?

They take a driver off Williams (so Williams then need a replacement Hulk? Vandorne?) and then it is probably only for 1 race.

If he outshines Bottas then it raises questions as to why Bottas has the seat for next season, which he does. if he doesn't do well then you've also gained nothing.

Merc have the constructors wrapped up so the safe option imo is to go with Vandoorne as it doesn't pose any awkward questions after the race or require upheaval in another team as well.

If Hamilton and Bottas are indeed a lock for next season, giving Russell the race doesn't make sense.

Depends on their “risk appetite”, to use a horrible business term.

They might want to know how good Russell is compared to Bottas. That would make it easy to sign him or reject him for 2022. They have the champions won already so they have nothing to lose. All they can do is test some hypothesis about how good Bottas and Russell are in a head to head.

If vandoorne is contracted as the replacement then he might be entitled to take a case against them for not giving him the drive.

Mitch Connor

GarIT wrote: »

Data

To do what with?

So in 12 months time you know that in that one weird race (cause this track is weird) Russel did X after 3 practice sessions? The cars will be different in 12 months too, so what does data from this one race really tell you?

If there was a chance of him getting a Merc seat next season I think it would be the correct move to make, but I don't think there is - unless Hamilton calls it a day, as Bottas is already confirmed.

I also think it would be a bad look for F1 and for Williams if Merc just nab their driver for a weekend.

GarIT

Mitch Connor wrote: »

To do what with?

So in 12 months time you know that in that one weird race (cause this track is weird) Russel did X after 3 practice sessions? The cars will be different in 12 months too, so what does data from this one race really tell you?

If there was a chance of him getting a Merc seat next season I think it would be the correct move to make, but I don't think there is - unless Hamilton calls it a day, as Bottas is already confirmed.

I also think it would be a bad look for F1 and for Williams if Merc just nab their driver for a weekend.

It allows you to make more driver comparisons. If Russel beats Bottas he is an easy choice for 2022.

Mercedes say they simulate each race 300,000 times before it is run and predict the outcome in every possible scenario. The computers will make use of the extra data.

pjohnson

Apparently Toto told a journalist that as soon as Stoff is finished his testing today he is on a plane heading straight to Bahrain.

El_Duderino 09

GarIT wrote: »

It allows you to make more driver comparisons. If Russel beats Bottas he is an easy choice for 2022.

Mercedes say they simulate each race 300,000 times before it is run and predict the outcome in every possible scenario. The computers will make use of the extra data.

Yeah. They could test this for exactly the same reasons they test anything. They would be aware of the limitations of a single test and could make use of the data to estimate how fast Russel is to Bottas.

If Bottas beats him handily then it’s more complicated. But if Russel holds his own with Bottas then it suggests he would be faster than Bottas with proper preparation.

The teams will be in a much better position to judge this stuff than we are.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Apparently Toto told a journalist that as soon as Stoff is finished his testing today he is on a plane heading straight to Bahrain.

Yeah fair enough. If he’s the reserve driver then he should do it.

Unless... Stoff is on his way to take over the Williams for the weekend....

RunningFlyer

RunningFlyer wrote: »

Absolutely stunning how he walked away from that crash. It will be an interesting report to read when a full investigation has been carried out, for such a variety of previously unthinkable things to happen at once.

Thankfully Grosjean walked to tell the tale, and the sport will learn from the accident, but I also hope it instills a bit of humility in some of the younger drivers. To me it seems some of the younger stars act somewhat complacent with all the jokes on twitch/Instagram/Team radio etc and this might bring them back to earth a little bit. For example, Lando commenting that the Marshall who ran across the track in front of him was “very brave” sounded like he was almost trying to make a joke of it. I’ve no doubt if that had happened in front of the likes of Lewis/Seb/Kimi etc the reaction would have been very different.

I've been banging this drum for a while, drivers think they're invincible. Grosjean caused his accident via a stupid manoeuvre. Bianchi was flying through double-waved yellows in torrential rain. All the drivers need to take some more responsibility for their actions.

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Pre engine going poof I found it funny how he was likely to finish the season in 4th, behind only Mercs and Max

And was racing in 3rd, at a distance to Hamilton where he could have helped Max strategy wise

The best thing for everybody involved would be Albon to Alpha Tauri with Gasly, Perez to RB, and Tsunoda to stay in F2 as well and long term will give everyone the best chance

Ironically Perez himself is proof that a driver shouldn't be defined by a bad season when promoted too young when he was at McLaren in 2013

Again, Perez has a habit of being a prick to teammates, often with disastrous results for the team. Top teams won't touch that.

quokula wrote: »

"A fair shot of a podium" would be a pretty poor result for Mercedes though. If they don't beat Verstappen they've failed.

Hulkenberg or Russell should be capable of winning the race quite comfortably as they're both good drivers with current F1 experience. Vandoorne may find it tougher because he's so used to Formula E now and those cars are very different, so it would be a much bigger adjustment. I'd still expect him to be on the podium, but it would be a big ask to get up to speed and beat Bottas immediately.

Alas in the last 15 years the cars have only gotten more and more complicated and the differences between them magnified. Fischella in 2009 being a classic example. Belgium he almost won in a Force India. Following race he stepped in for Ferrari and missed the top 10 in quali and finished 9th in the race while Kimi was 3rd in quali and the race. It took him pretty much the whole weekend to get comfortable in the car and he missed out on set-up time because of it.
If anyone can hop into the Merc and finish within 30 seconds of Bottas it's embarrassing for Bottas IMO.

Faugheen

I kind of feel like if Russell is who they have in mind in the future then they should be giving him track time.

However I’d be happy for Vandoorne to be given a chance to show what he can do. He got a raw deal in that McLaren and nobody stood a chance in those conditions as well as having to have Alonso as a team-mate.

If he got close to Bottas it could do wonders for him.

recyclebin

Toto, Lewis and Mercedes long term future are still up in the air. I wouldn't count on having a good seat in Mercedes in 2022 if I was Russell. Their dominance will have to end soon for the good of the sport.

johnnysmack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Alas in the last 15 years the cars have only gotten more and more complicated and the differences between them magnified. Fischella in 2009 being a classic example. Belgium he almost won in a Force India. Following race he stepped in for Ferrari and missed the top 10 in quali and finished 9th in the race while Kimi was 3rd in quali and the race. It took him pretty much the whole weekend to get comfortable in the car and he missed out on set-up time because of it.
If anyone can hop into the Merc and finish within 30 seconds of Bottas it's embarrassing for Bottas IMO.

What does that say about Hulkenberg and the two times he stepped in to the Racing point at short notice this year!? One of them the morning of qualification!