Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Harika

Great insight into the engine regulation debate for the years forward https://the-race.com/formula-1/why-red-bulls-freeze-request-could-define-f1s-whole-future/

flazio

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t want to be a Captain Hindsight but....

With the benefit of hindsight, the fire appeared far more dramatic than it actually was. I’m sure we all thought from the size of the fireball, that the fuel tank had broken. But it was just the 2-3 litres of fuel in the engine that ignited. I say just 2-3 litres because it was a job to put out that much but putting out 100l would have been impossible if RG couldn’t say get himself out.

In reality they put out the fire shortly after he got out of the car anyway because it turns out it was only 2-3l of fuel and not 100l

It was very dramatic and for the time everyone thought it was the fuel take full of fuel on fire, it seemed a whole lot more dramatic.

You are also captain "you weren't there." The heat out of that fire would have been immense. Grosjean couldn't see out his visor because the tear offs had melted.
There is no question, that was a life threatening situation.

antodeco

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

.

I will say that I've never felt such emotion watching an F1 race as I did when that happened. I jumped straight up, big inhale in, convinced I'd witnessed a fatality.

Hindsight or not, the visual of it, and more importantly the reality of it, was severe enough to warrant concern and continue with that concern for the future.

Sitting in a fire for 20 seconds versus 40 seconds is the difference between surviving and possibly dying. If he had last year's overalls on, he could've been alot worse. Just remember, he didn't need to die for this to have been a tragic accident.

I've always liked Grosjean, despite him appearing to be a bit of a moody @ss. However, I've seen a very different side to him since that crash. It's definitely been life changing for him, from what I can see. I also think he's had it tough, as I feel like he assumed nobody likes or cared about him. This event has shown that whilst people may not like you, they still respect and want nothing bad to happen to you. I think this is a realisation for him. He 100% comes across far happier now than I've ever seen him.

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

You are also captain "you weren't there." The heat out of that fire would have been immense. Grosjean couldn't see out his visor because the tear offs had melted.
There is no question, that was a life threatening situation.

Yeah absolutely. And then they put the fire out because a relatively small amount of fuel had ignited, not the full fuel tank as we thought when it happened. The fire was out in 10 or 15 seconds after RG got out of to car. So it might have been more severe alright but as long as the fire marshals did their job (and they seem to have done it very well) then the fire would have been put out in seconds rather than minutes which is would have taken to put out the fire from the whole fuel tank.

If it were the whole fuel tank it would probably needed a fire vehicle rather than the marshals with fire extinguishers.

It wa bad and lots of people did a great job.

El_Duderino 09

antodeco wrote: »

...

I've always liked Grosjean, despite him appearing to be a bit of a moody @ss. However, I've seen a very different side to him since that crash. It's definitely been life changing for him, from what I can see. I also think he's had it tough, as I feel like he assumed nobody likes or cared about him. This event has shown that whilst people may not like you, they still respect and want nothing bad to happen to you. I think this is a realisation for him. He 100% comes across far happier now than I've ever seen him.

Yeah I’d say he’s seen as a bit of a headbanger by the rest of the grid. If there’s was one driver who’s head and shoulders above the rest in terms of being most likely to have a big crash then it was RG. The rest of the drivers must feel negatively towards him and his recklessness. But I’m sure they all truly wished no harm on him.

They said the same about Senna. He said he believed god was protecting him and wouldn’t let anything had happen to him. So he took risks that other drivers were cross about. No point reasoning with a fanatic and telling him his good is nonsense and won’t protect any of them in reality. But I’m sure none of them wished harm on him either.

recyclebin

Has Toto accidently confirmed Lewis is definitely driving for Mercedes next year when he was talking about media driven competition between Russell and Bottas:

"There is no shootout," Wolff told reporters. "If George does well, it's an indication that one day he's going to be in a good car and hopefully race for victories and world championships.

"We know that we race next year with Lewis and Valtteri," he added. "Where we are in 2022 is all going to depend how our own season in 2021 is going to go and not by George's performance on a oval in Bahrain and on a season final in Abu Dhabi."

antodeco

Yeah it definitely felt like he was confirming Lewis but also confirming George will be driving for them in 2022. Basically said wants to see how George is under pressure to get an idea of how he will be for future races

El_Duderino 09

Yeah without some kind of massive and unforeseen change of heart, Lewis will sign another contract for next year and probably beyond.

antodeco

Bring Russell in in 2022 for a season under Lewis to learn from him. Sure will wait and see!

klose

antodeco wrote: »

Bring Russell in in 2022 for a season under Lewis to learn from him. Sure will wait and see!

Seeing as bottas only got an extension for next year you'd imagine that's fairly nailed on, if Mercedes want Russell to be their next star a 4th season getting shat on at Williams won't do him much good. Of course Hamilton might call it a day after his 8th championship and Russell replaces him instead of bottas, or they replace both? Who knows.

duploelabs

recyclebin wrote: »

Has Toto accidently confirmed Lewis is definitely driving for Mercedes next year when he was talking about media driven competition between Russell and Bottas:

"There is no shootout," Wolff told reporters. "If George does well, it's an indication that one day he's going to be in a good car and hopefully race for victories and world championships.

"We know that we race next year with Lewis and Valtteri," he added. "Where we are in 2022 is all going to depend how our own season in 2021 is going to go and not by George's performance on a oval in Bahrain and on a season final in Abu Dhabi."

He just doesn't want to weaken his bargaining position with contact negotiations for Hamiltons deal

Gaoth Laidir

antodeco wrote: »

I will say that I've never felt such emotion watching an F1 race as I did when that happened. I jumped straight up, big inhale in, convinced I'd witnessed a fatality.

Hindsight or not, the visual of it, and more importantly the reality of it, was severe enough to warrant concern and continue with that concern for the future.

Sitting in a fire for 20 seconds versus 40 seconds is the difference between surviving and possibly dying. If he had last year's overalls on, he could've been alot worse. Just remember, he didn't need to die for this to have been a tragic accident.

I've always liked Grosjean, despite him appearing to be a bit of a moody @ss. However, I've seen a very different side to him since that crash. It's definitely been life changing for him, from what I can see. I also think he's had it tough, as I feel like he assumed nobody likes or cared about him. This event has shown that whilst people may not like you, they still respect and want nothing bad to happen to you. I think this is a realisation for him. He 100% comes across far happier now than I've ever seen him.

How the hell he still had his marbles after a 53-g impact is amazing, but I suppose being engulfed in a fireball would tend to focus the mind if you've any bit of consciousness left.

duploelabs

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

How the hell he still had his marbles after a 53-g impact is amazing, but I suppose being engulfed in a fireball would tend to focus the mind if you've any bit of consciousness left.

53g impact would mean he'd have to be travelling 1868.4 kilometres per hour???

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

53g impact would mean he'd have to be travelling 1868.4 kilometres per hour???

How did you calculate that?

They measured it at over 50g alright. However they calculate it. Keep in mind that he could have decelerated in less than a second. So 9.8m/s squared might need to account for most of the deceleration happening in a fraction of a second.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How did you calculate that?

They measured it at over 50g alright. However they calculate it. Keep in mind that he could have decelerated in less than a second. So 9.8m/s squared might need to account for most of the deceleration happening in a fraction of a second.

1g impact = a deceleration of 9.81 m/s to zero.
53g impact = a deceleration of 519 m/s to zero
518 meters per second is 1868.4 kilometres per hour

Unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't think that 53g is correct

johnnysmack

duploelabs wrote: »

1g impact = a deceleration of 9.81 m/s to zero.
53g impact = a deceleration of 519 m/s to zero
518 meters per second is 1868.4 kilometres per hour

Unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't think that 53g is correct

It was widely reported in news that it was 53 g last week. No idea of the maths of it but 53g was what everyone was saying.

eviltimeban

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I'm always fond of those old skool TV graphics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvKgxxOFev8

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

1g impact = a deceleration of 9.81 m/s to zero.
53g impact = a deceleration of 519 m/s to zero
518 meters per second is 1868.4 kilometres per hour

Unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't think that 53g is correct

The formula is assuming it took a whole second to decelerate. It could have been near instantaneous

tipp_tipp_tipp

duploelabs wrote: »

1g impact = a deceleration of 9.81 m/s to zero.
53g impact = a deceleration of 519 m/s to zero
518 meters per second is 1868.4 kilometres per hour

Unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't think that 53g is correct

Guessing here, but assume you have to also consider the other 5 degrees of freedom.

Supposed to be 214g this one, though links on wikipedia seem to be gone.

For Grosjean 53g is very believable when you see how little the car moves after impact. Especially the fact that the back half that split off doesn't go away anyway, all the energy was absorbed in and around the barrier in an instant.

tipp_tipp_tipp

Deleted User wrote: »

Supposed to be 214g this one, though links on wikipedia seem to be gone.

For Grosjean 53g is very believable when you see how little the car moves after impact. Especially the fact that the back half that split off doesn't go away anyway, all the energy was absorbed in and around the barrier in an instant.

That's a good example of rotational acceleration which wasn't considered in the above calc. Remembering watching that one live at the time. Amazing he survived.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The formula is assuming it took a whole second to decelerate. It could have been near instantaneous

That's probably what I'm missing

Gaoth Laidir

duploelabs wrote: »

That's probably what I'm missing

Yes, it's all about the deceleration. As they say, it's not the fall that kills you but the sudden stop at the end.

He hit the barrier at 216 kph (60 m/s). Impact g-force is based on speed, mass and collision distance (how far did it take to come to a stop).

Assuming a mass of 850 kg (743 kg + 105 kg of fuel) and a collision distance of around 0.2 metres (it went a bit through the barrier) then the collision time is around 6.7 milliseconds. Change the collision distance to 0.5 metres it's still only 17 milliseconds. That's a fair jolt!

H3llR4iser

Guys, the g-force calculations are actually super simple; fact is, "g-force" is a bit of a misnomer as it is actually acceleration.

The trick is in the definition of 1g = 9.81 m/s^2; the "squared" part is very important because it actually means "9.81 meters per second per second".

So, in order to get the "g-force" scalar value (to keep it simple), you just do:

g = (delta-v / t) / 9.81

Where "delta-v" is the change in velocity; so, an object traveling at 9.81 m/s^2, coming to a stop ( 0 m/s^2) in exactly 1 second, will experience 1g of deceleration:

g = (9.81 / 1) /1 = 1

Obviously, you can extrapolate the reverse formulae from this, such as the one about finding the time t when given delta-v and g:

t = delta-v / ( g * 9.81)

So finally, in the case of Grosjean's accident, we have a delta-v of 60 m/s^s (the initial 216 kph) and a known g-force of 53g:

t = 60 / (53 * 9.81) = 0.115 s (rounded)

0.115 seconds looks quite right considering the barrier deformation and the fact the car went through it.

H3llR4iser

In completely unrelated news, Mercedes has offered Grosjean a test in their car if he is unable to race in Abu Dhabi.

Once again Toto proving he's fcukcing class. What else to say.

And Sbinotto, once again, confirming he's completely clueless

El_Duderino 09

H3llR4iser wrote: »

In completely unrelated news, Mercedes has offered Grosjean a test in their car if he is unable to race in Abu Dhabi.

Once again Toto proving he's fcukcing class. What else to say.

And Sbinotto, once again, confirming he's completely clueless

Not sure it’s a god idea... If Grosjean experiences a decent race car then he’ll be like “all those crazy move I’ve tried, that ended in crashes, would have worked out great in this car”.

Happy if he gets to finish his driving days on his terms.

Cool_CM

Haas just announced that Grosjean won't be racing in Abu Dhabi or attending the weekend:
https://www.haasf1team.com/news/team-statement-romain-grosjean-returning-switzerland

Harika

Cool_CM wrote: »

Haas just announced that Grosjean won't be racing in Abu Dhabi or attending the weekend:
https://www.haasf1team.com/news/team-statement-romain-grosjean-returning-switzerland

Now who is getting the cockpit for the last race? Fittipaldi, Schumacher, mazepin?

pjohnson

Harika wrote: »

Now who is getting the cockpit for the last race? Fittipaldi, Schumacher, mazepin?

Article says its Pietro. Shwartzman is pencilled in for FP1.

AMKC

Harika wrote: »

Now who is getting the cockpit for the last race? Fittipaldi, Schumacher, mazepin?

You would think letting Schumacher race in that race would be a good idea get him ready for next season get some data on him maybe he might even be faster than Fittipaldi but then maybe he would be faster after have done a weekend in the car already.Be interesting to see what Haas do at Abi Dubai alright.