Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Top Dog

Ikozma wrote: »

Just watched the race there now, wow what a crazy amazing race, I feel so bad for Russell though, what the hell happened at that pitstop?
Also why did they put hard tyres on bottas for last few laps?
Delighted for Perez and Ocon though but poor George must be sick, did he really have a puncture though???

Just reading up on it now. It appears there was a radio communication error between pit wall and pit crew when the cars were coming in, and in the confusion the front medium tyres for Bottas were fitted to Russell's car. So as there wasn't a full set of mediums there to be fitted they sent Bottas back out on the hard tyres he came in on to save further delay. Russell was then called back to the pits to have his own tyres fitted to the front before rejoining the race.

flazio

Stoolbend wrote: »

Exactly. It's not his fault his father is a billionaire who can buy a team to keep him in the sport.

He's hardly going to buy a team and then boot him out the door.

That depends on whether or not Lance is costing him prize money by crashing out.
For what it's worth I think Lance isn't. He did a great stint on the softs and kept it pretty clean to bring home that podium. He's not World Champion material, even if he was driving the Mercedes-Benz, but he's solid enough. His Beyond the grid podcast interview from last week is worth a listen.

Burkie1203

flazio wrote: »

That depends on whether or not Lance is costing him prize money by crashing out.
For what it's worth I think Lance isn't. He did a great stint on the softs and kept it pretty clean to bring home that podium. He's not World Champion material, even if he was driving the Mercedes-Benz, but he's solid enough. His Beyond the grid podcast interview from last week is worth a listen.

Stroll has several podiums now and a pole position on an ice rink. He has proven he is deserving of his seat. He drove an incredible first stint yesterday on softs and did a fine job overall.

Perez > Stroll but I think both are better then Vettel now. Stroll needs to be more consistent on Saturday to get himself in the top 6 or 8.

El_Duderino 09

In one sense it was the best of both worlds this weekend. We saw that Russell is the real deal and potentially top notch. And Perez got a win and a gets to add that to the case for signing for Red Bull.

Burkie1203

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In one sense it was the best of both worlds who’s weekend. We saw that Russell is the real deal and potentially top notch. And Perez got a win and a gets to add that to the case for signing for Red Bull.

F1 so much better when we dont have to listen to "get in there lewis" followed by an emotionless podium.

muckwarrior

Burkie1203 wrote: »

F1 so much better when we dont have to listen to "get in there lewis"

I'm starting to hate 'Bono' almost as much as Hamilton.

El_Duderino 09

muckwarrior wrote: »

I'm starting to hate 'Bono' almost as much as Hamilton.

I think he’s a saint. He puts up with all Lewis’ guff and always keeps an even temperament.

I’d tell him to stop whinging about the tyres. You’re 8 seconds ahead of everyone just drive the jaysus car and don’t be a clown.

jv2000

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think he’s a saint. He puts up with all Lewis’ guff and always keeps an even temperament.

I’d tell him to stop whinging about the tyres. You’re 8 seconds ahead of everyone just drive the jaysus car and don’t be a clown.

I was laughing yesterday when I imagined how Hamilton would have whined over the radio if that tyre balls-up had happened to him instead of Russel. Poor Bono.

muckwarrior

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think he’s a saint. He puts up with all Lewis’ guff and always keeps an even temperament.

I’d tell him to stop whinging about the tyres. You’re 8 seconds ahead of everyone just drive the jaysus car and don’t be a clown.

True. He's probably a great guy, but the "get in there lewis" at the end of every race is starting to grate, much like the 'Vettel finger' a decade ago.

El_Duderino 09

muckwarrior wrote: »

True. He's probably a great guy, but the "get in there lewis" at the end of every race is starting to grate, much like the 'Vettel finger' a decade ago.

Ha. And what would we give for a Vettel finger to break the monotony of “get in there Lewis”?

It’s pretty unlikely that we would have 2 new winners this year given Mercedes dominance (and Russell is still in with a shout next weekend).

H3llR4iser

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

If you're Helmut Marko, you're probably having to think about what would taking Perez say to the drivers you have in the academy? It's a long time since RB have gone outside of their own family for a driver, and if they start doing it now, then there has to be some young drivers who would start worrying that they won't have as guaranteed a route as they were promised when they signed up.

There's also the question of who would want to actually go head to head with Max? He's a clear number 1 now and Red Bull have lost a couple of very good drivers in Sainz and Ricciardo who I'm sure they'd have back in a heartbeat if they could right now

The problem is that Red Bull's young driver programme already looks quite dire as it is - they've burnt out at least as many drivers as they established: Vergne, Alguersuari, Buemi, Kvyat, Gasly and now Albon. Pierre might have caught his career by the scruff with that Monza victory, he might have a shot at a Renault (Alpine) seat in 2022, but rest assured nobody will be queuing to sign Albon. This are all guys who are or will be "discarded goods" in their 20s. Heck, Alguersuari actually RETIRED from racing and he's working as a DJ now.

Sainz was nearly another "victim" of Marko, he was very lucky - or perhaps very smart - to move to Renault when he could.

A "reset" move, where Red Bull prioritizes FIRST the ability to support a second driver as well as Verstappen is the priority right now. They can confirm Albon, hire Perez, heck they could put Buemi in the second car for what matters, if they don't switch back to a proper, 2-drivers team mentality, it won't make much of a difference.

weisses

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The problem is that Red Bull's young driver programme already looks quite dire as it is - they've burnt out at least as many drivers as they established: Vergne, Alguersuari, Buemi, Kvyat, Gasly and now Albon. Pierre might have caught his career by the scruff with that Monza victory, he might have a shot at a Renault (Alpine) seat in 2022, but rest assured nobody will be queuing to sign Albon. This are all guys who are or will be "discarded goods" in their 20s. Heck, Alguersuari actually RETIRED from racing and he's working as a DJ now.

Sainz was nearly another "victim" of Marko, he was very lucky - or perhaps very smart - to move to Renault when he could.

A "reset" move, where Red Bull prioritizes FIRST the ability to support a second driver as well as Verstappen is the priority right now. They can confirm Albon, hire Perez, heck they could put Buemi in the second car for what matters, if they don't switch back to a proper, 2-drivers team mentality, it won't make much of a difference.

Verstappen has plenty of issues himself with the behavior of the car this season, He seems to be able to work better with the given package then Albon ... They even swapped Engineers for Albon to see if that could help him.

What would be the benefit for red bull to only focus on Verstappen. Knowing they have the money, know how and organization to support 2 drivers?

ELM327

weisses wrote: »

Verstappen has plenty of issues himself with the behavior of the car this season, He seems to be able to work better with the given package then Albon ... They even swapped Engineers for Albon to see if that could help him.

What would be the benefit for red bull to only focus on Verstappen. Knowing they have the money, know how and organization to support 2 drivers?

Unless they have a competent second driver, which Albon is not, it makes sense to focus around max and develop the best car for him and his style.

duploelabs

weisses wrote: »

Verstappen has plenty of issues himself with the behavior of the car this season, He seems to be able to work better with the given package then Albon ... They even swapped Engineers for Albon to see if that could help him.

What would be the benefit for red bull to only focus on Verstappen. Knowing they have the money, know how and organization to support 2 drivers?

If Ferrari had a competent car, Max would be there in a heartbeat

weisses

ELM327 wrote: »

Unless they have a competent second driver, which Albon is not, it makes sense to focus around max and develop the best car for him and his style.

True ... My point is that red bull is perfectly capable of putting out 2 cars that perform on track ...

chicorytip

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think most people would rate Gasley above Albon but they’ve given Albon time and chucked Gasley out. Their approach is all over the shop.

I would prefer to see Gasley in a red bull, or go his own way with Renault. Will Buxton seems to know something about Perez so hopefully he has that RB seat next year.

Funnily enough, I think Bottas would be the most suitable for the Red Bull gig if he were available. I think he would benefit from a move away from Merc.

ELM327

chicorytip wrote: »

Funnily enough, I think Bottas would be the most suitable for the Red Bull gig if he were available. I think he would benefit from a move away from Merc.

And he's actually already proven a good number 2 driver.

Top Dog

ELM327 wrote: »

And he's actually already proven a good number 2 driver.

He has, but you can also see its beginning to take its toll on the guy.

As this season has progressed you can see that the constant beating is causing the poor guy to look more despondent and less & less happy. His venting at the media is just one example. Its like his spirit is being crushed. It might do him good to escape Lewis's shadow with a different team.

quokula

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The problem is that Red Bull's young driver programme already looks quite dire as it is - they've burnt out at least as many drivers as they established: Vergne, Alguersuari, Buemi, Kvyat, Gasly and now Albon. Pierre might have caught his career by the scruff with that Monza victory, he might have a shot at a Renault (Alpine) seat in 2022, but rest assured nobody will be queuing to sign Albon. This are all guys who are or will be "discarded goods" in their 20s. Heck, Alguersuari actually RETIRED from racing and he's working as a DJ now.

Sainz was nearly another "victim" of Marko, he was very lucky - or perhaps very smart - to move to Renault when he could.

A "reset" move, where Red Bull prioritizes FIRST the ability to support a second driver as well as Verstappen is the priority right now. They can confirm Albon, hire Perez, heck they could put Buemi in the second car for what matters, if they don't switch back to a proper, 2-drivers team mentality, it won't make much of a difference.

There are only 20 seats in F1 and only 2 at Red Bull. It's not possible for all those drivers you mention to still have the seat, if they did then it would mean half of the entire grid would be Red Bull drivers. I know they have a reputation for "burning through" drivers but that's only because they give more drivers opportunities to begin with than anyone else.

F1 is an elite sport, 999 out of every 1000 professional racing drivers will never get there, I don't think it's the correct point of view that Red Bull owe their young drivers a seat in the sport, or one of only two seats that exist at the top team. Red Bull provide their young drivers with huge opportunities just by getting them into lower formulas, then getting to a team like Alpha Tauri is something most racing drivers could never dream of, so I don't think they'd be facing a mass exodus if they hire someone like Perez into the top team this one time.

Hijpo

So have we seen evidence that

1) Russel is in fact an exceptional driver, better than Hamilton when taking into consideration the car didn't suit and the dash\settings were confusing, he still managed a great start, passed bottas and would have caught him again.

How bad must the William's really be if Russel is that good yet still can't get points in a Merc powered car.

2) Does it prove that it's mostly a combination of car and bottas defence (Max said bottas squeezed as he usually does, maybe to back people up for Hamilton's lead?) when it comes to Lewis's dominance if a driver as green as russel (in that car and race scenario) can get it into pole, open up a 4 second lead and only be hampered by a dodgy pit stop?

Hijpo

Hijpo wrote: »

(Max said bottas squeezed as he usually does, maybe to back people up for Hamilton's lead?)

Nah he just views Bottas as a hindrance who shouldn't be where he is.

ELM327

Hijpo wrote: »

So have we seen evidence that

1) Russel is in fact an exceptional driver, better than Hamilton when taking into consideration the car didn't suit and the dash\settings were confusing, he still managed a great start, passed bottas and would have caught him again.

How bad must the William's really be if Russel is that good yet still can't get points in a Merc powered car.

2) Does it prove that it's mostly a combination of car and bottas defence (Max said bottas squeezed as he usually does, maybe to back people up for Hamilton's lead?) when it comes to Lewis's dominance if a driver as green as russel (in that car and race scenario) can get it into pole, open up a 4 second lead and only be hampered by a dodgy pit stop?

He would have won even with that, it was the second pitstop for the "puncture" that got him. And with that he finished 1 spot behind bottas but with fastest lap

El_Duderino 09

Top Dog wrote: »

He has, but you can also see its beginning to take its toll on the guy.

As this season has progressed you can see that the constant beating is causing the poor guy to look more despondent and less & less happy. His venting at the media is just one example. Its like his spirit is being crushed. It might do him good to escape Lewis's shadow with a different team.

Getting beaten like a rented mule, by Max in Red Bull, won’t help lift the mood.

He’s just not at the level of the top guys. It must be very hard for those guys to accept that when it’s presented so clearly to them.

ZiabR

So the question is... We know that Red Bull wont be promoting Gasly again next year, so if they do not sign Checo then who do they sign? Is Hulkenberg any better than Checo? Jury is out on that one aswell.

Surely they wont stick with Albon? That Red Bull this year has been a handful though, so who knows.

Top Dog

ELM327 wrote: »

He would have won even with that, it was the second pitstop for the "puncture" that got him. And with that he finished 1 spot behind bottas but with fastest lap

Wasn't the stop for the puncture pot stop number 4 for him?

Top Dog

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Getting beaten like a rented mule, by Max in Red Bull, won’t help lift the mood.

He’s just not at the level of the top guys. It must be very hard for those guys to accept that when it’s presented so clearly to them.

I wasn't suggesting he go to RedBull, and I agree it would be no better. I still think he'd be in a better head space on another team, even if it's down the field.

El_Duderino 09

ZiabR wrote: »

So the question is... We know that Red Bull wont be promoting Gasly again next year, so if they do not sign Checo then who do they sign? Is Hulkenberg any better than Checo? Jury is out on that one aswell.

Surely they wont stick with Albon? That Red Bull this year has been a handful though, so who knows.

I'd say Albon is odds-on to keep the seat. They are really reluctant to buy in a driver as it would mean admitting defeat of the young driver programme. They gave Brendan-Jaysus-Hartley a drive in 2018, just to save going outside the family. Plus Red Bull is half Thai owned so having a South East Asian driver goes beyond his performance on track.

Checo winning yesterday must help him to make the case for a seat. but listening to him after the race, he doesn't sound optimistic about a drive for 2021. Maybe they're just waiting until the season is over to save embarrassing Albon. I can't wait to see what they do.

jammiedodgers

Top Dog wrote: »

Wasn't the stop for the puncture pot stop number 4 for him?

Yup

https://twitter.com/pirellisport/status/1335669188799700992

ELM327

Top Dog wrote: »

Wasn't the stop for the puncture pot stop number 4 for him?

Yes , but the second f00kup one.

Frank Bullitt

I live for races like that. Probably the race of 2020. Delighted for Perez (F1 needs him on the grid) and massively impressed with Russell, hope he gets another shot at it this week in the Merc.