Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

circadian

I've often wondered if Hamiltons dominance is out of pure skill or if the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else. Russell's performance yesterday shows that the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else.

Yes Hamilton is a fantastic driver and very consistent, however, there are definitely other drivers on the grid that are every bit as good as Hamilton.

Harika

circadian wrote: »

I've often wondered if Hamiltons dominance is out of pure skill or if the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else. Russell's performance yesterday shows that the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else.

Yes Hamilton is a fantastic driver and very consistent, however, there are definitely other drivers on the grid that are every bit as good as Hamilton.

Possible but paraphrasing Lauda who stated in the 70s "there are 500 drivers as good as me but I am sitting in a Ferrari"

mickdw

circadian wrote: »

I've often wondered if Hamiltons dominance is out of pure skill or if the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else. Russell's performance yesterday shows that the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else.

Yes Hamilton is a fantastic driver and very consistent, however, there are definitely other drivers on the grid that are every bit as good as Hamilton.

Russell is very likely a genius. He was very similar to hamilton in the car - making stuff happen, winning the race twice basically.
I think it shows that it needs the driver with the touch of magic. Bottas was shown up even more than against hamilton.
So yes you need the car but you need the genius to make it sing.

chicorytip

mickdw wrote: »

Russell is very likely a genius. He was very similar to hamilton in the car - making stuff happen, winning the race twice basically.
I think it shows that it needs the driver with the touch of magic. Bottas was shown up even more than against hamilton.
So yes you need the car but you need the genius to make it sing.

Steady on!! He's won nowt. In any sporting context only those with multiple awards under their belts are deemed to be outstanding rather than just talented. That's the difference between Hamilton and Russell.

mickdw

chicorytip wrote: »

Steady on!! He's won nowt. In any sporting context only those with multiple awards under their belts are deemed to be outstanding rather than just talented. That's the difference between Hamilton and Russell.

He was out on his own yesterday. Robbed twice of the win.
He will be a superstar. Im not saying he will win 7 titles but he is certainly good enough to win many if given the opportunity.

Peanut Butter Jelly

Russell in one weekend showed up Bottas. To be that close in your first qualifying, stepping in v a guy who's done 15ish races this season in the car, and then to be the (comfortably) better car in the race in your first attempt shouldn't be happening unless you're a far more talented driver.

Russell won't be in the car next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's just nailed his spot for '22

duploelabs

Bottas has removed all mercedes references from his IG, we're through the looking glass time

Peanut Butter Jelly

duploelabs wrote: »

Bottas has removed all mercedes references from his IG, we're through the looking glass time

Well I was about to say that he's already signed a contract for 2021...

...until I had a quick look at Russell's instagram. He's gotten rid of all his Williams references.

They can't have done it, surely?

GarIT

duploelabs wrote: »

Bottas has removed all mercedes references from his IG, we're through the looking glass time

This has to be a troll. Bottas' bio is now just Driver.


Using the way back machine, the last snapshot of Bottas' profle linked to the Mercedes and F1 instagram pages.


The latest I could find for Russell said Williams F1 Driver, Mercedes Junior. Now it just says Formula 1 Driver.

This is it

Is it happening!?!?

This is it

Bottas has Mercedes but Russell just has just F1 driver

quokula

circadian wrote: »

I've often wondered if Hamiltons dominance is out of pure skill or if the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else. Russell's performance yesterday shows that the Mercedes really is that much better than everything else.

I never wondered because I saw him drive for McLaren and already knew he was far from exceptional, and I saw him the last time he had to race anyone in equal machinery other than Bottas, when he was beaten to the title by Nico Rosberg, who is far from an exceptional driver himself.

The last race only confirmed what anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention really should have already known. Take the driver who's dead last in the championship on zero points, put him in Hamilton's car with zero practice and without a proper fitting, and discover he's actually just as good as Lewis, just as at least half a dozen other drivers on the grid would be given the chance.

Sadly I still expect there is zero chance of Bottas being replaced until Hamilton chooses to retire. The rumours of Russell replacing him will come to nothing. They don't want a situation on their hands like 2016 when Lewis started spreading conspiracy theories about the team when Rosberg was beating him, talking about pit crew stops and saying the truth will come out in his book and all that rubbish. He has past form of putting McLaren team secrets up on twitter when venting about Button beating him at that team too. Far easier for Merc to keep someone subservient like Bottas in the team so they get all the publicity from their superstar driver and none of the nonsense (when he's not posting anti-vaxxer stuff at least)

Adamocovic

This is it wrote: »

Bottas has Mercedes but Russell just has just F1 driver

Just looked at Bottas account and the mention of F1 and Merc are gone.

Also the line “never give up” which is quite sad.

This isn’t actually happening is it? It on its own would be some nice tinfoil hat speculation but Russell removing Williams form his has just sent this rumour mill into overdrive.

Let us enter silly season.

Parsnips

quokula wrote: »

The last race only confirmed what anyone who's paid the slightest bit of attention really should have already known. Take the driver who's dead last in the championship on zero points, put him in Hamilton's car with zero practice and without a proper fitting, and discover he's actually just as good as Lewis, just as at least half a dozen other drivers on the grid would be given the chance.

I was thinking the exact same thing watching the race.
AS exciting as the race was, it showed everything that is wrong with the sport.
Russell catapults to superracer. just says it all about it being 90% the car and 10% the driver.
Bottas not up to scratch and was made look a fool to be fair.
Im not a fan of Perez. Ive seen him ruin to many peoples races including disrespecting his team mate Ocon over several races 2 seasons ago. glad to See Ocon back.

SMC92Ian

I can imagine Russel telling Bottas how social works and the two of them deciding to have a big laugh by trolling the world. They do be bored as f**k during the weekends especially as there is no parties or hanging out around the paddock this year.

BrentMused

If Perez doesn’t get the Red Bull drive for 2021, where do you think he will end up in 2022?

El_Duderino 09

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

Russell in one weekend showed up Bottas. To be that close in your first qualifying, stepping in v a guy who's done 15ish races this season in the car, and then to be the (comfortably) better car in the race in your first attempt shouldn't be happening unless you're a far more talented driver.

Russell won't be in the car next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's just nailed his spot for '22

Completely agree. He did enough to win the race at the weekend but he didn’t “win it twice”. He was in contention to change down and overtake Checo but it didn’t happen.

In reality, even being competitive with Bottas was a big win for Russell. Beating Bottas was an unequivocal win for Russell. It’s like last year when LeClerc was against Vettel. The expectation was that if LeClerc could be somewhat competitive with Vettel, then it was a big win for LeClerc. Beating Vettel by 20 points was a killer blow to Vettel.

Russell came out of the weekend with his reputation enhanced at Bottas expense.

But Mercedes don’t need a new no1 driver for next year and Russell isn’t a no2 driver, so there’s no room at the inn for Russell next year. Maybe (probably) 2022.

El_Duderino 09

BrentMused wrote: »

If Perez doesn’t get the Red Bull drive for 2021, where do you think he will end up in 2022?

Renault instead of Ocon (or Alonso if the comeback doesn’t work out).
Possibly at Red Bull if they stick with Albon and the Rookie isn’t fast enough to step up.
Any of the back markers would have him for his money, but he might not want to drive for Williams or Alfa.

PopePalpatine

Maybe Force Aston Point if Vettel keeps up his 2020 form.

vectra

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Maybe Force Aston Point if Vettel keeps up his 2020 form.

Vettel's 2020 form is purely car related, and before anyone jumps in and says its never the car. I think Russell proved that point going from zero to hero in one weekend.

Anyone have thoughts of Red Bull bidding for Russell for 2021?

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Vettel's 2020 form is purely car related, and before anyone jumps in and says its never the car. I think Russell proved that point going from zero to hero in one weekend.

Anyone have thoughts of Red Bull bidding for Russell for 2021?

The car was capable of qualifying fourth at the weekend. Vettel only managed to get it to 13th.... it’s not all the car. The difference between 4th and 13th on the grid, is the driver...

When it’s Albon or Latifi, we don’t need to make excuses, we just observe they’re not very good drivers and are being shown up by their teammates. Same for Vettel.

ELM327

vectra wrote: »

Vettel's 2020 form is purely car related, and before anyone jumps in and says its never the car. I think Russell proved that point going from zero to hero in one weekend.

Anyone have thoughts of Red Bull bidding for Russell for 2021?

I only said that yesterday, it's very strange that it has not been mentioned once.

jv2000

Parsnips wrote: »

I was thinking the exact same thing watching the race.
AS exciting as the race was, it showed everything that is wrong with the sport.
Russell catapults to superracer. just says it all about it being 90% the car and 10% the driver.
Bottas not up to scratch and was made look a fool to be fair.
Im not a fan of Perez. Ive seen him ruin to many peoples races including disrespecting his team mate Ocon over several races 2 seasons ago. glad to See Ocon back.

Agree with most of this especially the Perez point. He is a great fast racer but an absolute danger when racing wheel to wheel. Look at his time with McLaren.

Regarding the Merc, the car is certainly a big factor here but Bottas has been really bad. If anything he appears to be getting worse apart from that brief period where he grew a beard and it gave him a bit of confidence. In saying that though I do think Russel is a very good driver and the evidence of that was both his speed and his very good overtaking. We know the Merc is tricky in dirty air but no sign of that with Russel, also that overtake on Bottas after the safety car was awesome.

El_Duderino 09

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Maybe Force Aston Point if Vettel keeps up his 2020 form.

I hadn’t really thought of that. I presume they will keep him for a couple of seasons. He brings a reputation as a 4tine world champion and the gravitas that comes with it. The RP tram is gearing up to be a big player and title contender and a past champion like Vettel will lend them the legitimacy they need.

Apart from anything else, if he continues to underperform and Lance is competitive or even beats him, it will make Lance look good and that’s an incentive to keep him rather than dump him.

Period will make excuses for Vettel then just as they do now e.g Stroll is a class driver and he’s actually as fast as Vettel who is a 4 time world champion

recyclebin

Next season is make or break for Vettel. I hope the switch rejuvenates him. Otherwise he could end up like Damon Hills last season for Jordan. Stinking out the place, at Perez expense.

ELM327

recyclebin wrote: »

Next season is make or break for Vettel. I hope the switch rejuvenates him. Otherwise he could end up like Damon Hills last season for Jordan. Stinking out the place, at Perez expense.

In fairness to Damon, he wanted to retire and EJ wouldnt let him as he was under contract.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The car was capable of qualifying fourth at the weekend. Vettel only managed to get it to 13th.... it’s not all the car. The difference between 4th and 13th on the grid, is the driver...

When it’s Albon or Latifi, we don’t need to make excuses, we just observe they’re not very good drivers and are being shown up by their teammates. Same for Vettel.

Different car's nuances suit drivers styles, that was shown in monza this year

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

In fairness to Damon, he wanted to retire and EJ wouldnt let him as he was under contract.

Damon was filling a similar role to Vettel at RP by being a former world champion at the up and coming team. Schumacher at Mercedes did the same thing b

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Damon was filling a similar role to Vettel at RP by being a former world champion at the up and coming team. Schumacher at Mercedes did the same thing b

Yes and coming from Arrows in 1997, he won a race in 1998 in the Jordan along with several points finishes AFAIR. For '99 it was clear early on his head wasnt in it any more.


Not comparable to schumacher who believed in the mercedes project, or Vettel who now is moving with hunger to win/challenge again.

El_Duderino 09

duploelabs wrote: »

Different car's nuances suit drivers styles, that was shown in monza this year

What did it show exactly? LeClerc qualified 7th and Vettel qualified 14th. On that information is just showed the same pattern as the rest of the year Vettel miles off LeClerc’s pace.

I’m not sure I get what you’re saying.