Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

El_Duderino 09

Infoanon wrote: »

Paraphrasing here - the loss of his father and the emotional and financial impact that had on his family greatly affected Damon.
Damons biggest fear was leaving his wife and family in the same position and he wanted to stop before he got injured or worse.
As an aside 2 of Damons teammates -Ayrton Senna and Bertrand Fabi died in crashes.

That casts a new light on both Eddie not releasing him from his contract and parking the car.

They’re men who do extraordinary things. If one of them tells you he doesn’t want to do it anymore because he wants to be there for his family, then it doesn’t cast Eddie in a good light for refusing.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That casts a new light on both Eddie not releasing him from his contract and parking the car.

They’re men who do extraordinary things. If one of them tells you he doesn’t want to do it anymore because he wants to be there for his family, then it doesn’t cast Eddie in a good light for refusing.

+1
That's why there's a general unwritten rule that retiring in effect suspends your contract, once you are genuinely out of the sport.

donspeekinglesh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That casts a new light on both Eddie not releasing him from his contract and parking the car.

They’re men who do extraordinary things. If one of them tells you he doesn’t want to do it anymore because he wants to be there for his family, then it doesn’t cast Eddie in a good light for refusing.

Lauda decided during a practice session to retire and climbed out of the car and walked away, and Bernie rightly let him go.

barryribs

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
That's why there's a general unwritten rule that retiring in effect suspends your contract, once you are genuinely out of the sport.

There's no unwritten rule in contracts. EJ learned it that lesson the hard way. I would think that that there was a payment involved if either party wanted to break the contract and Damon wouldn't pay it, so both parties end up unhappy

BrentMused

The Times reporting that Hamilton continues to test positive and has yet to return a negative test result since his first positive.

He just released a video as well thanking people for their support etc and he sounds fairly ropey.

Obviously I wish him a full recovery but I would love to see Russell get another shot in the Mercedes this weekend.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He’s driving the same car as LeClerc and isn’t as fast. Russell was driving the same car as Bottas and was equally fast in quali and faster in the race.

Is your point that the Mercedes car doesn’t suit Bottas?

What point are you actually making?

Is your point the Ferrari is a good car?
What point are you trying to make?

ELM327

barryribs wrote: »

There's no unwritten rule in contracts. EJ learned it that lesson the hard way. I would think that that there was a payment involved if either party wanted to break the contract and Damon wouldn't pay it, so both parties end up unhappy

There is. Precedent would indicate that about retirement.
Even look at the likes of Button from mclaren recently.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Is your point the Ferrari is a good car?
What point are you trying to make?

LeClerc can put the car on 4th. Vettel can only put the car in 13th. The conclusion is that Vettel is not as fast as LeClerc.

It’s the same conclusion as we reach when Max qualifies 3rd and Albon qualifies 12th. A series of similar results over the season means the conclusion is clear.

What was your point? You said it was 150% proof but didn’t say what exactly it was proof of

barryribs

ELM327 wrote: »

There is. Precedent would indicate that about retirement.
Even look at the likes of Button from mclaren recently.

Rosberg is a better example. Mercedes knew they could release him and keep him as an 'ambassador' - the same as Button, which is essentially a no compete clause - without it affecting their results. Which brings us full circle into why they won't upset Lewis by hiring Russell next year.

But just because you say you are retiring, it doesn't mean that the other party is going to let you off without paying for it.

El_Duderino 09

barryribs wrote: »

Rosberg is a better example. Mercedes knew they could release him and keep him as an 'ambassador' - the same as Button, which is essentially a no compete clause - without it affecting their results. Which brings us full circle into why they won't upset Lewis by hiring Russell next year.

But just because you say you are retiring, it doesn't mean that the other party is going to let you off without paying for it.

That’s a very fair compromise. Even if they were not enthusiastic about becoming brand ambassador, I wouldn’t object to pressuring them into it in exchange for letting them out of their driving duties.

I don't think Mercedes are getting much positive attention from F1 fans. If they bring Russell in to challenge Hamilton next season they'll get better attention from F1 fans, more attention from casual fans (an actual championship battle perhaps) and mainstream attention. On top of the attention for just any old intra-team rivalry there'll be the easily-pushed "Young Pretender vs Greatest of All Time" narrative to be pushed.
Unfortunately Mercedes generally seem to want to win and then destroy every series they enter before leaving. It's wins all round if they get Russell in to battle Hamilton for next season.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

LeClerc can put the car on 4th. Vettel can only put the car in 13th. The conclusion is that Vettel is not as fast as LeClerc.

It’s the same conclusion as we reach when Max qualifies 3rd and Albon qualifies 12th. A series of similar results over the season means the conclusion is clear.

What was your point? You said it was 150% proof but didn’t say what exactly it was proof of

No point in putting your car 1st.2nd.3rd.4th. etc if you are not going to finish a race.
You get no points for qualifying position,
Points are given out for the race.
Are you trying to say Vettel can no longer race? :rolleyes:
To finish 1st you have to FINISH first.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't think Mercedes are getting much positive attention from F1 fans. If they bring Russell in to challenge Hamilton next season they'll get better attention from F1 fans, more attention from casual fans (an actual championship battle perhaps) and mainstream attention. On top of the attention for just any old intra-team rivalry there'll be the easily-pushed "Young Pretender vs Greatest of All Time" narrative to be pushed.
Unfortunately Mercedes generally seem to want to win and then destroy every series they enter before leaving. It's wins all round if they get Russell in to battle Hamilton for next season.

As a fan, I’d love to see that happen. But the people who make decisions at Mercedes aren’t fans. I imagine them as being dull-eyed money-men who think destroying the opposition is much better than a tawdry intra-team battle. I’d bet they think a solid 1-2 finish every year, with a clear no1 and a clear no2, is much more on-brand for Mercedes than squabbling amongst themselves.

We know that the battle is much better for advertising and probably a much better use of their money, but the people who hold the power at Mercedes do not seem to agree.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

No point in putting your car 1st.2nd.3rd.4th. etc if you are not going to finish a race.
You get no points for qualifying position,
Points are given out for the race.
Are you trying to say Vettel can no longer race? :rolleyes:
To finish 1st you have to FINISH first.

That isn’t what I’m trying to say and that’s why I didn’t say that.

I’ve said what I think a few times. LeClerc is significantly faster than Vettel for the various reasons that are clear to everyone.

What was your point from earlier? You said you had 150% proof but you didn’t say what it was proof of.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That isn’t what I’m trying to say and that’s why I didn’t say that.

I’ve said what I think a few times. LeClerc is significantly faster than Vettel for the various reasons that are clear to everyone.

What was your point from earlier? You said you had 150% proof but you didn’t say what it was proof of.

150% proof is the car.
Are you thinking Hamilton is still as supreme as people thought?

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

150% proof is the car.
Are you thinking Hamilton is still as supreme as people thought?

I don’t think anyone disputes the Mercedes is the best car. Not sure why you think that’s an interesting revelation.
I think the Mercedes is great. And I think Hamilton being so far ahead of Bottas in the same car shows, pretty conclusively, that Hamilton is faster than Bottas.

Likewise I think Vettel being so far behind LeClerc in all the metrics such as speed, quali, and points scored, demonstrates, pretty conclusively, that Vettel is just not as fast as LeClerc. If Bottas were qualifying 9 places behind Hamilton, the case would be pretty clear.

Why do you think Bottas is so far behind Hamilton, Albon behind Max and Vettel behind LeClerc?

LollipopJimmy

vectra wrote: »

150% proof is the car.
Are you thinking Hamilton is still as supreme as people thought?

You're comparing apples an oranges. Leclerc and Vettel are in the same machinery.

BikeRacer

Oh yay this sh*te again

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

LeClerc can put the car on 4th. Vettel can only put the car in 13th. The conclusion is that Vettel is not as fast as LeClerc.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I don’t think anyone disputes the Mercedes is the best car. Not sure why you think that’s an interesting revelation.
I think the Mercedes is great. And I think Hamilton being so far ahead of Bottas in the same car shows, pretty conclusively, that Hamilton is faster than Bottas.

Likewise I think Vettel being so far behind LeClerc in all the metrics such as speed, quali, and points scored, demonstrates, pretty conclusively, that Vettel is just not as fast as LeClerc.

Remind me of qualifying in Hungary 2020?

My point about the merc was that if you get into a car that is super fast and suits your style, then it is a done deal
You get into a car that is not suiting your style and you are snookered.
Like the Ferrari with literally zero rear grip, something Vettel cannot get on with.

Next year will prove a point.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Remind me of qualifying in Hungary 2020?

My point about the merc was that if you get into a car that is super fast and suits your style, then it is a done deal
You get into a car that is not suiting your style and you are snookered.
Like the Ferrari with literally zero rear grip, something Vettel cannot get on with.

Next year will prove a point.

Are you going to cherry pick one event where Vettel matched LeClerc (to within a tenth) and Vettel finished in 8 ahead of LeClerc? you’re free to do that but then I’ll ask you what happened in very next race.

Pointing to Vettel’s lack of adaptability is fine but it doesn’t help make your point. You’re saying a car wi the “zero grip” can qualify in 4th in LeClerc’s hands and 13th in Vettel’s hands.

The season is nearly over so we can look at the season as a whole. Remind me who has the upper hand in quali, race and points? (Don’t, its rhetorical, but do answer the question below)

Why do you think Bottas is so far behind Hamilton, Albon behind Max and Vettel behind LeClerc?

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Are you going to cherry pick one event where Vettel matched LeClerc (to within a tenth) and Vettel finished in 8 ahead of LeClerc?

Chery picked?
You are a joke.:pac:
So Vettel beat Charles by a tenth but you say he matched him?
You are one confusing dude.:D

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

LeClerc can put the car on 4th. Vettel can only put the car in 13th. The conclusion is that Vettel is not as fast as LeClerc.

Which race did you "cherry pick" that from?

This is it

Why is any criticism of Vettel met with such hostility.

I really like Vettel, I really hope he turns it around next season, but there's no way anyone can convince me he's better or as good as LeClerc at the moment.

vectra

This is it wrote: »

Why is any criticism of Vettel met with such hostility.

I really like Vettel, I really hope he turns it around next season, but there's no way anyone can convince me he's better or as good as LeClerc at the moment.

Just to set the record straight,
I am with you there, I like him and I think he is still an excellent driver in a car that suits his style.
But I don't think I ever said he was better than Charles ( at the moment )

recyclebin

It's hard to know if Vettel is really that bad and if Le Clerc is really that good. The car does seem to be a handful to drive and both have a good few offs or incidents. Next season will tell a lot. Will Sainz have the measure of Le Clerc and will Stroll out preform Vettel?

Joeface

The way I see it , this is based on very limited knowledge Vettel needs to know what the Cars limit is and he can do great things with that info , Take the race earlier in year where he stretched the soft tyres a stupid long distance , he knew the limit he was trying to get out off the car.
Again Turkey in the rain , He is able drive the car at a defined limit got a podium out of it . He didnt need to push he just had to hold it .

Charles is different , he doesn't care about the limit in the car , He is trying to get more out of what he has . Better qualifying and better results follow cause he just pushes and can deal with the crap better . I mean he does go through Tires way faster than Vettel and is willing to push that much more .

I can see the Racing Point car been more in Vettel's style . the question is has he lost anything with the way he has turned in the performances this year . Few and Far between them.

kksaints

LeClerc is fast no doubt but some of his racecraft needs a bit of work. He's had two first lap crashes this season and nearly had another one in the first race in Bahrain.

tipp_tipp_tipp

This is it wrote: »

Why is any criticism of Vettel met with such hostility.

I really like Vettel, I really hope he turns it around next season, but there's no way anyone can convince me he's better or as good as LeClerc at the moment.

Sums up my feelings too. People have short memories too, he was well outclassed by Danny Ric during their brief time at RB. You can accept someone having a blip in their career for whatever reason, but he has been very poor for the last 2 1/2 years and Ferrari have clearly decided he's surplus to requirements. He'll probably beat stroll, but I am anticipating a fairly low key end to his career, a shame imo.

PsychoPete

Apparently Bottas and Russell both remove team names from their Instagram bios, so the speculation begins...

duploelabs

PsychoPete wrote: »

Apparently Bottas and Russell both remove team names from their Instagram bios, so the speculation begins...

You've read back a few pages right?

Stoolbend

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