Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Serious question: how do you know the Ferrari doesn't suit Vettel and does suit Leclerc?

If it's all so simple then this bit in bold should be easy to build into your explanation and I shouldn't need to keep asking the same simple question over again.

The reality is that a good driver like Leclerc is adapting his driving to the car and getting some great performances out of it. Vettel isn't doing likewise either because he totally could do it but he doesn't want to, or he can't do it.

Do you make the same excuses for Albon and Bottas, for example? The usual conclusion when one teammate is miles ahead of the other in every metric is pretty clear-cut and doesn't need any special appeals to the car.

You'd have to be an idiot to think Vettel could be driving anywhere near is best in that toxic environment with the treatment he's received, regardless of the characteristics of the car.

For whatever reason, saving money, or just covering their own incompetent asses, Ferrari management threw their star driver under a bus and completely demotivated him before the season even started, then compounded that by producing a dog of a car, and messing up both his strategy and his pit stops race in race out.

We know Vettel is a very calm driver, he's comfortable in his own skin, he has four championships in the bag from back when F1 was a much more competitive sport, he has a private family life that he cares about more than any public persona, so he has no interest in going out and putting it all on the line for a team who has treated him with nothing but disrespect and contempt.

I suspect with a supportive team and a boost in motivation we'll see him very comfortably outperforming both Ferraris next season. Wouldn't be surprised if it's a battle between Vettel and Verstappen for third in the WDC.

duploelabs

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Serious question: how do you know the Ferrari doesn't suit Vettel and does suit Leclerc?

If it's all so simple then this bit in bold should be easy to build into your explanation and I shouldn't need to keep asking the same simple question over again.

The reality is that a good driver like Leclerc is adapting his driving to the car and getting some great performances out of it. Vettel isn't doing likewise either because he totally could do it but he doesn't want to, or he can't do it.

Do you make the same excuses for Albon and Bottas, for example? The usual conclusion when one teammate is miles ahead of the other in every metric is pretty clear-cut and doesn't need any special appeals to the car.

You've been provided a reason above by a different poster so stop digging yourself into a hole

Infoanon

Vettel has been out performed for the last season and a half.

That is undeniable and like other champions in the past his performance has plateaud and is now on a downward trajectory.

Ferraris fall to the tight mid field pack has amplified Vettel poor performances.

Stroll Snr has hired him for promotional value not racing value - Red Bull would have hired him if they still believed his long term potential.

It would be great to see a revitalised Vettel next season but it is very hard to see beyond Vettel being a driver at the end of his career.

PukkaStukka

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Serious question: how do you know the Ferrari doesn't suit Vettel and does suit Leclerc?

Because Vettel has said so

klose

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

This little prick at Haas needs to go. There is no room in F1, or anywhere in life for people that think its OK to sexually assault people. Haas have plenty of other options

They do, but unfortunately we are about to see that money talks, he will be driving for Haas next season no doubt.

Sanity_Saviour

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

This little prick at Haas needs to go. There is no room in F1, or anywhere in life for people that think its OK to sexually assault people. Haas have plenty of other options

https://www.en24news.com/sport/en/2020/12/lady-from-mazepin-video-responds-to-fuss-nikita-and-i-are-good-friends.html

Andrea D'ILval, the woman in question: "Hey everyone, I just want to let you know that Nikita and I have been good friends for a long time and there was nothing serious about the video,” she begins her explanation on Instagram Stories. “We trust each other and this was just a stupid way for us to have fun. I said this video on his Stories as a joke. I’m so sorry. I can give you my word that he’s a really good person and that he would never do anything to hurt or humiliate me. “

Infoanon

klose wrote: »

They do, but unfortunately we are about to see that money talks, he will be driving for Haas next season no doubt.

Haas dealing with the matter ' internally ' rather confirms that.

Add his 11 points on his licence,his tweet celebrating Covids anniversary and the infamous punch up one has to wonder how this guy has got so far apart from the obvious money.

Still feel the FIA will have to get involved as this story takes off - a statement has been made by the lady involved which on the face of it changes the story (eg she says she posted the video) ,however the statement is quickly being discredited and if anything this attempt to defuse the situation has probably made it worse.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think not being arsed precludes him from being a top driver.

He is a 4 time world champion !
What are you to judge and criticize him or any other driver?
What year did you compete in F1 and was able to cope with a car that doesn't suit you?

From your posts on numerous forums ( not just motoring ) you come across as being a total. ***B. that must be 100% correct in everything you say or feel.

Anjobe

vectra wrote: »

What are you to judge and criticize him or any other driver?

ROTFL!

Hamilton has nearly twice as many champs but that doesn't stop anyone here judging and criticizing him!

vectra

Anjobe wrote: »

ROTFL!

Hamilton has nearly twice as many champs but that doesn't stop anyone here judging and criticizing him!

Judging Hamilton because of having the best car on the grid which has been proven can be driven fast by anyone?
Big Big difference.
Are you forgetting who was the only non merc driver challenging Hamilton's through the years?

GarIT

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

https://www.en24news.com/sport/en/2020/12/lady-from-mazepin-video-responds-to-fuss-nikita-and-i-are-good-friends.html

Andrea D'ILval, the woman in question: "Hey everyone, I just want to let you know that Nikita and I have been good friends for a long time and there was nothing serious about the video,” she begins her explanation on Instagram Stories. “We trust each other and this was just a stupid way for us to have fun. I said this video on his Stories as a joke. I’m so sorry. I can give you my word that he’s a really good person and that he would never do anything to hurt or humiliate me. “

Her job is to spend time with rich people and wear bikinis while lying by their pool or on their yacht. She probably has to put up with a lot of **** and her life would be over if she complained.

All that said her statement could be genuine.

Difference is this is a guy who has proven himself to be a grade A asshole already. This is just the straw that should break the camel's back.

LollipopJimmy

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

https://www.en24news.com/sport/en/2020/12/lady-from-mazepin-video-responds-to-fuss-nikita-and-i-are-good-friends.html

Andrea D'ILval, the woman in question: "Hey everyone, I just want to let you know that Nikita and I have been good friends for a long time and there was nothing serious about the video,” she begins her explanation on Instagram Stories. “We trust each other and this was just a stupid way for us to have fun. I said this video on his Stories as a joke. I’m so sorry. I can give you my word that he’s a really good person and that he would never do anything to hurt or humiliate me. “

With friends like that....

duploelabs

GarIT wrote: »

Her job is to spend time with rich people and wear bikinis while lying by their pool or on their yacht. She probably has to put up with a lot of **** and her life would be over if she complained.

All that said her statement could be genuine.

Difference is this is a guy who has proven himself to be a grade A asshole already. This is just the straw that should break the camel's back.

Imagine ruining your F1 career before it's even started, plank

This is it

vectra wrote: »

He is a 4 time world champion !
What are you to judge and criticize him or any other driver?
What year did you compete in F1 and was able to cope with a car that doesn't suit you?

From your posts on numerous forums ( not just motoring ) you come across as being a total. ***B. that must be 100% correct in everything you say or feel.

He hasn't won a championship since 2013. I doubt anyone would/could argue that he was never a top tier driver, but it could definitely be argued that he is no longer a top tier driver.

Won't bother with the rest of your post, pretty childish.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

He is a 4 time world champion !
What are you to judge and criticize him or any other driver?
What year did you compete in F1 and was able to cope with a car that doesn't suit you?

From your posts on numerous forums ( not just motoring ) you come across as being a total. ***B. that must be 100% correct in everything you say or feel.

Lol. He was great when winning those championships alright, and he was also great in some years since. I don’t think anyone is challenging that. But now, there’s no way he can be in the top tier and he would struggle to stay in the middle tier based on this year’s form.

Ok. Why do you think Bottas is so far behind Hamilton, Albon behind Max and Vettel behind LeClerc?

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

He is a 4 time world champion !
What are you to judge and criticize him or any other driver?
What year did you compete in F1 and was able to cope with a car that doesn't suit you?

vectra wrote: »

Judging Hamilton because of having the best car on the grid which has been proven can be driven fast by anyone?
Big Big difference.
Are you forgetting who was the only non merc driver challenging Hamilton's through the years?

Sometimes, unintentional comedy is the best kind...

Gaoth Laidir

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol. He was great when winning those championships alright, and he was also great in some years since. I don’t think anyone is challenging that. But now, there’s no way he can be in the top tier and he would struggle to stay in the middle tier based on this year’s form.

Ok. Why do you think Bottas is so far behind Hamilton, Albon behind Max and Vettel behind LeClerc?

Bottas has had one mechanical retirement each in 2020 and 2019 and 5 overall since he joined Merc. Lewis has had only one in the same period, back in 2018. Lewis also got the rub of the green in other ways, especially at Silverstone this year, when he got his blowout when it didn't matter, unlike Bottas. There's precious little between them when it comes to FP and qualifying, but Bottas is guilty of more bad starts.

To compare the Bottas v Lewis battle to the Albon v Max one is ridiculous. Albon is nowhere near Max when it comes to both qualifying and the race, and is almost never there when the team needs him to bring home the points.

I don't know what's happened Vettel. His head's just not right at all. The car is not the best but not as bad as Vettel's results would suggest. Leclerc certainly has a way of getting the best out of it. Anyone can have bad results in a good car, but you normally can't have good results in a bad car.

Anjobe

vectra wrote: »

Judging Hamilton because of having the best car on the grid which has been proven can be driven fast by anyone?
Big Big difference.
Are you forgetting who was the only non merc driver challenging Hamilton's through the years?

Hamilton was just an example. A decent percentage of the posts here are judging, criticizing and sometimes even praising drivers. If we're not allowed to do that unless we have actually driven an F1 car then we are going to have very little to talk about. You're a regular poster on the forum but it's like you've never actually read it. It's your Vettel exceptionalism that is so funny.

murphyebass

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

This little prick at Haas needs to go. There is no room in F1, or anywhere in life for people that think its OK to sexually assault people. Haas have plenty of other options

I think that’s a massive overreaction.

You don’t know the back story, the woman in question has come out saying it was fine. The uncensored video shows her laughing.

I think people are waaaaay too quick to pass judgement on something they know very little about.

He was stupid to post it no doubt but other than that I’m sure a lot of people on here have done worse in their youth before social media was a thing.

I for one hope he is on the grid next year and learns his lesson not post stupid ****.

Harika

duploelabs wrote: »

Imagine ruining your F1 career before it's even started, plank

Do you remember the young scheckter? Or Enge?

GarIT

murphyebass wrote: »

I think that’s a massive overreaction.

You don’t know the back story, the woman in question has come out saying it was fine. The uncensored video shows her laughing.

I think people are waaaaay too quick to pass judgement on something they know very little about.

He was stupid to post it no doubt but other than that I’m sure a lot of people on here have done worse in their youth before social media was a thing.

I for one hope he is on the grid next year and learns his lesson not post stupid ****.

He got angry with another woman for refusing to send him nudes.


He has purposely crashed competitors off the track.


He has 11 of a maximum of 12 points on his licence before even starting in F1.


Before this Haas admitted it would be difficult to manage him.

He has accused George Russell of being gay and threatened to out him.

Others have said he makes openly racist comments but I haven't seen evidence of that yet.

Cork Trucker

Harika wrote: »

Do you remember the young scheckter? Or Enge?

Both named Tomas incidentally

murphyebass

GarIT wrote: »

He got angry with another woman for refusing to send him nudes.


He has purposely crashed competitors off the track.


He has 11 of a maximum of 12 points on his licence before even starting in F1.


Before this Haas admitted it would be difficult to manage him.

He has accused George Russell of being gay and threatened to out him.

Others have said he makes openly racist comments but I haven't seen evidence of that yet.

I’ll answer each of your points below in order, can’t quote them as I’m on a phone.

1. The clip is about 10 seconds long. I honestly don’t think anything can be deduced from it other than it was a bit silly taking the video. Anything other than that is just conjecture as we just don’t know enough facts.

2. 11 out of 12 isn’t ideal alright if true but Haas wouldn’t be signing him they didn’t think he had the potential to get them points on the board.
Some of the greats have been ruthless in the past too. Mr Schumacher, one of my all time favourites and a lot of others too, was no angel. Got away a lot.

3. I didn’t know the George Russell story tbh. Is it just tabloid media stuff or is he quoted as in factually that he said it?

4. He makes openly racist comments but you haven’t seen evidence, kinda sounds like how rumours start alright.

So going back to the original point I still don’t think there’s much in that video.

What I know for sure though is he’s a damn good race driver and I would like to see him on the grid next year.

He’d be far more exciting than either of the two current Haas drivers that’s for damn sure.

GarIT

murphyebass wrote: »

I’ll answer each of your points below in order, can’t quote them as I’m on a phone.

1. The clip is about 10 seconds long. I honestly don’t think anything can be deduced from it other than it was a bit silly taking the video. Anything other than that is just conjecture as we just don’t know enough facts.

2. 11 out of 12 isn’t ideal alright if true but Haas wouldn’t be signing him they didn’t think he had the potential to get them points on the board.
Some of the greats have been ruthless in the past too. Mr Schumacher, one of my all time favourites and a lot of others too, was no angel. Got away a lot.

3. I didn’t know the George Russell story tbh. Is it just tabloid media stuff or is he quoted as in factually that he said it?

4. He makes openly racist comments but you haven’t seen evidence, kinda sounds like how rumours start alright.

So going back to the original point I still don’t think there’s much in that video.

What I know for sure though is he’s a damn good race driver and I would like to see him on the grid next year.

He’d be far more exciting than either of the two current Haas drivers that’s for damn sure.

I was talking about somethign separate to the video.


He's not ruthless, he is like Maldonado with a temper. and he is only 5th behind two better options, as well as Perez not haivng a drive. He doesn't deserve to be there.


He left it as a comment on George Russell's live instagram video, there are multiple screenshots.


And on the racism point, I agree in a way. I have seen it said on twitter but no evidence as I said.


I hate Kevin, but I'd take either of the Haas drivers, Perez, Hulk, Kvyiat, Schwarzman, Illiot, or maybe even Albon over him.

20,000 signatures on the petition to have him dropped now.

murphyebass

GarIT wrote: »

I was talking about somethign separate to the video.


He's not ruthless, he is like Maldonado with a temper. and he is only 5th behind two better options, as well as Perez not haivng a drive. He doesn't deserve to be there.


He left it as a comment on George Russell's live instagram video, there are multiple screenshots.


And on the racism point, I agree in a way. I have seen it said on twitter but no evidence as I said.


I hate Kevin, but I'd take either of the Haas drivers, Perez, Hulk, Kvyiat, Schwarzman, Illiot, or maybe even Albon over him.

20,000 signatures on the petition to have him dropped now.

Hopefully Perez is in a red bull next year.

Hulk is an average driver, had his chance.

Scharzman or Illiot I’d be interested in seeing.

Albon has been a disaster this year and never really showed anything amazing previously either. Gasly was woeful in the RB so they gave Albon a shot. Couldn’t have been a worse move imo.

Will be interesting to see if he does get the drive now or is going to be cancelled.

My guess is most people (myself included) didn’t know about his gay comments or the licence points. I knew he’d a few alright but didn’t think it was high as 11.

Most people on that petition are jumping on a pc bandwagon would be my opinion. A ten second clip shouldn’t be enough to cancel him.

As I say though I’d take Scharzman or Illiot instead of him.

Politics and cancel culture aside I just want fresh blood in the sport. Any one of those three drivers from a driving point of view would be a great addition to the grid.

Infoanon

murphyebass wrote: »

So going back to the original point I still don’t think there’s much in that video.

Haas called it 'Abhorrent ' behaviour.....

HighLine

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

https://www.en24news.com/sport/en/2020/12/lady-from-mazepin-video-responds-to-fuss-nikita-and-i-are-good-friends.html

Andrea D'ILval, the woman in question: "Hey everyone, I just want to let you know that Nikita and I have been good friends for a long time and there was nothing serious about the video,” she begins her explanation on Instagram Stories. “We trust each other and this was just a stupid way for us to have fun. I said this video on his Stories as a joke. I’m so sorry. I can give you my word that he’s a really good person and that he would never do anything to hurt or humiliate me. “

I watched the video and to me it didn't seem that bad considering she was laughing and sucking her finger suggestively in response. They were obviously not strangers.

Just goes to show how easily people are triggered judging from the comments on here and on social.

That said... from reading about his racing past, he seems like he is trouble on the track!

pjohnson

Mazepin also once gave Ilott a black eye and fat lip in the paddock because he believed Ilott had ruined his lap........in a free practice session in GP3.....if not for daddy's money he likely wouldn't have made it to F2.

murphyebass

Infoanon wrote: »

Haas called it 'Abhorrent ' behaviour.....

Of course they would. They have to protect themselves. It’d be a publicity nightmare for them if they didn’t.

Doesn’t mean they sack him. They might but there’s more to F1 than politics. $$$$

Also even though they used a ridiculous term Like abhorrent doesn’t mean they believe it.

Let’s see, if they are truely offended by his 10 second clip they’d sack him today.

Let’s see what they do.

My guess is he’ll be driving for them next year.

Who knows it might liven up some races.

vectra

Anjobe wrote: »

Hamilton was just an example. A decent percentage of the posts here are judging, criticizing and sometimes even praising drivers. If we're not allowed to do that unless we have actually driven an F1 car then we are going to have very little to talk about. You're a regular poster on the forum but it's like you've never actually read it. It's your Vettel exceptionalism that is so funny.

I said it before and I will say it again,
I wouldn't be Vettel's biggest fan, I do like the guy as a racer. BUT
For someone to come on here and blatantly try to say he is done and dusted by trying to make it seem impossible that one guy can feel comfortable in a race car while the other cannot, that same poster apparently sees no grey area in anything. It is either black or white. ( as long as it is his black or white ).