Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

geotrig

The big thing here for me is, isn't Hamiltons contract with Merc due for negotiation and they hadn't started or sat down on it yet!! I can't see Ferrari not at least making an inquiry for the no1 driver.
Also I can imagine Toto, desperately trying to call Lewis this morning! Lol

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Hilarious as ever.

Anyway Fabrega has said Ferrari want Sainz, Ricciardo or Giovinazzi in that order and all are available at the end of 2020. If Ferrari do need a replacement for a retired Vettel for 8 races I think its most likely to just use Wehrlein than try to buy out any drivers contract. Wehrlein is already employed and more importantly superlicensed.

The announcement says he's not staying after 2020. It didn't suggest he's not going to fulfil his Contract for 2020.

Riciardo and sainz are presumably both under Contract for next year and probably the year after. Complicated and expensive negotiations to get them out of their contracts.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Hilarious as ever its actually adorable the fetish.

Yes, the Kubica fascination some people hold is Interest alright. Would you say you fetishise him though? I just thought you exaggerated his ability do race and dream about him ever getting a seat in f1 again after his disastrous 2019 season.

quokula

Shame to see Ferrari's failure to build a decent car has now effectively ruined the careers of two of the best drivers of the last decade. Reminds me of the debacle with Prost in the early 90s.

What's Albon's contract status? Mercedes have no interest in rocking the boat and risking Hamilton's status by putting a talented driver in the other seat, so surely a return to Red Bull would be the only reason for Vettel to stay on the grid. I know Cristian Horner still massively rates him. If that's not possible then maybe he'd be better off following in Alonso's footsteps and trying to conquer other parts of the motorsport world.

Don't see how this helps Ferrari in any way either. They're guaranteed a worse driver line up for the foreseeable future now.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Riciardo and sainz are presumably both under Contract for next year and probably the year after. Complicated and expensive negotiations to get them out of their contracts.

No suprise you are wrong again. Its public knowledge that Ricciardo signed a 2 year deal in 2018 therefore covering the 2019 and 2020 season thats two years. He is not under contract with any team yet for 2021, nor is Sainz or most of the grid.

ELM327

geotrig wrote: »

The big thing here for me is, isn't Hamiltons contract with Merc due for negotiation and they hadn't started or sat down on it yet!! I can't see Ferrari not at least making an inquiry for the no1 driver.
Also I can imagine Toto, desperately trying to call Lewis this morning! Lol

The no1 driver is retired, ALO

pjohnson

For the record only Verstappen, Leclerc, Stroll, Perez and Ocon have contracts for 2021+ everyone else is open. Well except Russell who does have his overarching Mercedes deal afaik but his Williams driver deal ends in 2020.

El_Duderino 09

quokula wrote: »

...
Don't see how this helps Ferrari in any way either. They're guaranteed a worse driver line up for the foreseeable future now.

I ge really are with all that but the answer is Money.

He's a 4time world champion and demands 4time world champion money, but I don't think he's driving as a 4time world champion.

He's a decent driver but he's terrible value for money. And the time ahead will involve a lot of belt tightening so he must be completely out of options to get the money he wants.

He's on more than Max. Almost 4 times Bottas' wage. That's not right.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/30/how-much-are-f1-drivers-earning-in-2020-and-should-their-fees-be-capped/

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

No suprise you are wrong again. Its public knowledge that Ricciardo signed a 2 year deal in 2018 therefore covering the 2019 and 2020 season thats two years. He is not under contract with any team yet for 2021, nor is Sainz or most of the grid.

Calm down. I stand corrected.

And to think you accused me if being upset a few posts back. Lol.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Calm down. I stand corrected.

And to think you accused me if being upset a few posts back. Lol.

Just basic facts is all. I thought most people following F1 knew the vast majority of contracts were expiring at was to be the end of the current regulations with the 2020 off season set to be quite active. Plus a lot of teams generally just use annual rolling contracts based around performance. Even Bottas is only on yearly Merc deals. Haas and Toro Rosso rollover their deals aswell.

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I ge really are with all that but the answer is Money.

He's a 4time world champion and demands 4time world champion money, but I don't think he's driving as a 4time world champion.

He's a decent driver but he's terrible value for money. And the time ahead will involve a lot of belt tightening so he must be completely out of options to get the money he wants.

He's on more than Max. Almost 4 times Bottas' wage. That's not right.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/03/30/how-much-are-f1-drivers-earning-in-2020-and-should-their-fees-be-capped/

He is a 4 time world champion, but it's hard to look like a 4 time world champion when the car isn't up to scratch and the team continually make ridiculous decisions to your detriment.

And I'd say he's worth far more than 4 times Bottas. If Bottas had been at Red Bull for those years the team would have zero championships. If Bottas had been at Ferrari the last few years they'd be even further off the pace and Kimi would have been their comfortable number 1 driver.

Harika

Benson where it went wrong
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52627667

Where is Prost on those graphics? IMO the GOAT at least from the 80s

El_Duderino 09

quokula wrote: »

He is a 4 time world champion, but it's hard to look like a 4 time world champion when the car isn't up to scratch and the team continually make ridiculous decisions to your detriment.

And I'd say he's worth far more than 4 times Bottas. If Bottas had been at Red Bull for those years the team would have zero championships. If Bottas had been at Ferrari the last few years they'd be even further off the pace and Kimi would have been their comfortable number 1 driver.

He's not worth the money now. He's the second best paid driver on the grid. Right now there isn't much difference between Vettel and bottas. They were about the same level last year. Solid, sound, not great. Vettel is probably faster and bottas is probably more reliable. Vettel has had some howlers in the last couple of years.

Bottas is good value, Vettel isn't.

ELM327

Bottas is like Irvine, Barrichello, Brundle, Coulthard.
A solid driver capable of winning in the right car sometimes. But he's not a champion, let a lone a 4 time champ. So vettel deserves >4x his salary.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He's not worth the money now. He's the second best paid driver on the grid. Right now there isn't much difference between Vettel and bottas. They were about the same level last year. Solid, sound, not great. Vettel is probably faster and bottas is probably more reliable. Vettel has had some howlers in the last couple of years.

Bottas is good value, Vettel isn't.

Yes
When you consider the best total package as 100%, where 40% is apportioned to driver ability and 60% to the car.


Vettel last year was 30% driver and 40% car.
Bottas was 22% driver and 50% car.


The constituent parts add up to give bottas the better package and better chance of winning. But in no way was he a better driver. It's like saying he's a better driver than Alonso because of Alonsos form in the mclaren.

Harika

Vettel hasn't been a world champion since 2014, he was beaten by a guy in his second season who earns 10 million. How would you justify paying him three times as much?

flazio

I'll be honest, if you're more serious about gunning for the championship and less about the moolah, I'd steer clear of Ferrari. Indications suggest to me that they are the team that will struggle the most with the cost cap.

H3llR4iser

People ain't gonna like it, but Ricciardo would be the worst possible option for Ferrari - when both Mercedes and Red Bull went the "clear number 1" route, having equal drivers would mean being at a disadvantage from day one.

It would be great do have DR back at the front of the field and he definitely has the pace and grit to win World Championships, as he demonstrated by matching and often beating Verstappen in a team that, since the moment Max joined, immediately manifested a "Verstappen and another guy" kind of mentality (it's not by chance that Gasly immediately bounced back as soon as he was "demoted", now watch Albon being munched and spat by Jos Verstappen Racing...ehrm, Red Bull Racing ); However, he wouldn't be interested in playing #2 at any level. He's been there and left to join a team in the midfield because of it.

For the same reason, Sainz is a better option but he's young and talented, and wouldn't be happy to play second fiddle to Leclerd.

Amazingly, Ferrari's best option with Vettel gone is actually...Giovinazzi. Relatively young, nice fella, homegrown in the Ferrari Driver Academy, improved enough in the second part of last season to match Kimi, he'd be a good "corporate man" capable of collecting points, podiums and the odd win should Leclerc be having a bad day. Basically an "Italian Bottas" (as long as he doesn't pull an Ivan Capelli)

PopePalpatine

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Amazingly, Ferrari's best option with Vettel gone is actually...Giovinazzi. Relatively young, nice fella, homegrown in the Ferrari Driver Academy, improved enough in the second part of last season to match Kimi, he'd be a good "corporate man" capable of collecting points, podiums and the odd win should Leclerc be having a bad day. Basically an "Italian Bottas" (as long as he doesn't pull an Ivan Capelli)

Your faith in Ferrari is admirable.

Jordan 199

Ivan Capelli and the horror that was the F92A. Another car that probably handled like a lorry.

Sheeps

My predictions for 2021.
Bottas to who gives a ****,
Vettel to Mercedes,
Sainz to Ferrari,
Ric to McLaren,
Alonso to Renault

ELM327

Alonso wont come back to Renault

quokula

Sheeps wrote: »

My predictions for 2021.
Bottas to who gives a ****,
Vettel to Mercedes,
Sainz to Ferrari,
Ric to McLaren,
Alonso to Renault

It would be amazing to see Vettel replace Bottas, but Mercedes have had multiple chances to put a talented driver in that seat and they are not interested in rocking the boat. Only way it happens is if Hamilton retires.

H3llR4iser

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Ivan Capelli and the horror that was the F92A. Another car that probably handled like a lorry.

Worst car Ferrari ever fielded, even if the 1980 and 1986 "efforts" are worth a mention. Still, Jean Alesi dragged that thing to the podium a couple of times.

Sheeps

quokula wrote: »

It would be amazing to see Vettel replace Bottas, but Mercedes have had multiple chances to put a talented driver in that seat and they are not interested in rocking the boat. Only way it happens is if Hamilton retires.

I'd have thought the same until Toto Wolff mentioned that Vettel's Ferrari departure changes things. I don't think it's the most likely outcome, but I think there's a sizable chance it could happen. If I were Bottas, I wouldn't feel very comfortable right now.

mickdw

I dont see vettel putting himself up against a big name in a top team again. The way I see it, he is in a phase now where he can take a big money contract with a midfield team for a couple of years before he exits.
Going to mercedes beside hamilton and then getting beaten well by hamilton would ruin his career confirming that he lucked into 4 championships.
Battling for results with norris in a mclaren would be a safer bet.

muckwarrior

I'd love to see DR at Ferrari, both because I'd like to see him in a more competitive car and because I think he's one of very few that could challenge Le Clerc, but as others have said, it's certainly not the wisest choice for Ferrari to have 2 lead drivers.

mickdw

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Of course you can justify this. Or lets put it another way. Your the HR manager for a company looking at salary for two employees

Person A) Has over a decade of experience and was the best employee in the company 4 times.
Person Has less than 2 years experience and hasnt proven themselves globally

I think Person A deserves to be paid more

I dont agree.
Vettel is on the way down while le clerc is on the rise.
When it gets to the point that the young driver on the rise beats the old seasoned head over a season, the old guy becomes a has been and the new guy is infinitely more valuable as a driver and as a draw.

Corben Dallas

Got to be Danny Riccardo for Ferrari any other choice is just wrong. This came close to happening and should happen now. Hes easily as good as Hamilton, Vettel and Max. ie a top liner.

Ferrari needs 2 No1's ( or equal drivers) if they want to win the World Drivers/Constructors any time soon. Vettel's downfall is that hes never, not even once been a team player, ie hes has never taken one for the team. Witness the disaster at Brazil were he would rather take out his teammate than back down, looks like its now biting him in the ass. With Ferrari not keen on paying him 30/40m? a year and not getting the performance needed for their money. (I believe they wanted him to take a cut or shorten the length of contract offered, Vettel wasnt up for either option... so hes leaving)

I really feel Ferrari turned off Vettel's engine in Russia cause he would not comply with the teams request.

Sainz is one for the future but hes better off at McLaren, and Giovanizzi is a company man and in the mould of Bottas, Kovalinen. reliable but not very quick > No2 drivers. This would be a backward step for Ferrari.

vectra

I feel Vettel is still a good driver given a good car. Put him in Bottas seat and I would be certain he would give Hamilton a good run for his money. Saying he is on the way down is wrong as this would say the same about Alonso.
Its all about the car. A driver simply cannot supply miracles.