Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Harika

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Plus LeClerc

And they won't all be world champions or even top drivers. But the future is with them, not a 40 year old Alonso or Kimi.

Yeah who knew that Montoya, Ralf, Heidfeld, Fisichella or trulli would not become wdc? F2 will be very interesting to see if someone can dominate the season.

weisses

H3llR4iser wrote: »

It would be great do have DR back at the front of the field and he definitely has the pace and grit to win World Championships, as he demonstrated by matching and often beating Verstappen in a team that, since the moment Max joined, immediately manifested a "Verstappen and another guy" kind of mentality (it's not by chance that Gasly immediately bounced back as soon as he was "demoted", now watch Albon being munched and spat by Jos Verstappen Racing...ehrm, Red Bull Racing ); However, he wouldn't be interested in playing #2 at any level. He's been there and left to join a team in the midfield because of it.

So you are now saying the torro rosso is a better car then the Red bull he was driving in ? ...... your hate for Verstappen is getting unhealthy I say

weisses

Harika wrote: »

Sainz was on par with verstappen when together. .

You might want to look up the stat on that and then post back.

El_Duderino 09

Harika wrote: »

Yeah who knew that Montoya, Ralf, Heidfeld, Fisichella or trulli would not become wdc? F2 will be very interesting to see if someone can dominate the season.

Yeah in hindsight they were not at the standard needed. But they were the future when they were young.

It's like Sick Boy from Trainaspotting had his grand unifying theory on life:
Sick Boy : It's certainly a phenomenon in all walks of life.
Mark Renton : What do you mean?
Sick Boy : Well, at one time, you've got it, and then you lose it, and it's gone forever. All walks of life: George Best, for example. Had it, lost it. Or David Bowie, or Lou Reed...
Mark Renton : Some of his solo stuff's not bad.
Sick Boy : No, it's not bad, but it's not great either. And in your heart you kind of know that although it sounds all right, it's actually just shyte.

Best thing we could do is let the alonso dream go.

Sheeps

Sheeps wrote: »

My predictions for 2021.
Bottas to who gives a ****,
Vettel to Mercedes,
Sainz to Ferrari,
Ric to McLaren,
Alonso to Renault

Ric to McLaren confirmed

vectra

Sheeps wrote: »

Ric to McLaren confirmed

Where did you see that ?
I was just reading an article saying Macca has made a counter offer to Sainz to keep him.

Inviere

Seems the right choice for him, they're a team on the upswing, Merc engines coming, and a lot of capital behind them. Is retirement looking more & more likely now for Seb?

Charlie-Bravo

Ok, so that's a seat available at Renault. I'm still thinking Hulk will be in the mix, even as a good backup plan. Will renault hold station until later on this season before agreeing a contract with any one? Who else is out of contract this year?

vectra

So what worthwhile options are left?
Bottas to Renault and Vettel to Merc?
Anything else is not worthwhile for him.

barryribs

Inviere wrote: »

Seems the right choice for him, they're a team on the upswing, Merc engines coming, and a lot of capital behind them. Is retirement looking more & more likely now for Seb?

If I were betting on it, I would say it will be.


And I agree with Top Dog on everything. Sainz has just set a cap on what he will be able to achieve, they want a clear number 2 and he would have been better off staying with McLaren

pjohnson

astrofluff wrote: »

Ok, so that's a seat available at Renault. I'm still thinking Hulk will be in the mix, even as a good backup plan. Will renault hold station until later on this season before agreeing a contract with any one? Who else is out of contract this year?

All the RB/AT stable of drivers except Verstappen, and then both of the Haas, Alfa Romeo and Mercedes drivers are out of contract. Latifi is out at Williams

Only Ferrari, McLaren and Aston Martin have finalised thier 2021 lineup. Ocon has one of the Renault seats and Russell has a Williams seat.

pjohnson

Sainz joins Ferrari for two years (till 2022)

Himself and Leclerc will be their youngest line up in 50 years. Also first time since 2007 they wont have a World Champion in their line-up. But oddly 2007 was their last World Championship.

Sheeps

2 down, 2 to go.

Andrew76

barryribs wrote: »

...Sainz has just set a cap on what he will be able to achieve, they want a clear number 2 and he would have been better off staying with McLaren

Can't say I agree with this thinking. Ferrari have a better car than McLaren right now so it's the smarter choice - doesn't matter if they want him as a no. 2 driver - if he's fast enough to compete and beat Leclerc then that no. 2 role will disappear quickly enough, just like it did with Leclerc himself last year vs Vettel. If you get the chance you go with the better car and let your ability do the rest.

Sheeps

Vettel is a 4 time world champion and he's only 32. Anyone who thinks Bottas is safe at Mercedes is delusional. There's no way Vettel left Ferrari without an ace up his sleeve in terms of his next drive.

nf2k

Sheeps wrote: »

Vettel is a 4 time world champion and he's only 32. Anyone who thinks Bottas is safe at Mercedes is delusional. There's no way Vettel left Ferrari without an ace up his sleeve in terms of his next drive.

That would be a fantastic prospect. Vettel went down in my opinion last year but would be a shame to see him disappear.

Really hope the rumours of Alonso to Renault are true.

El_Duderino 09

Sheeps wrote: »

Vettel is a 4 time world champion and he's only 32. Anyone who thinks Bottas is safe at Mercedes is delusional. There's no way Vettel left Ferrari without an ace up his sleeve in terms of his next drive.

I doubt he has any great plans to be honest. Seb is s disruptive influence at a team and he's not a prospect - almost certainly past his best. So they'd be inviting guaranteed disharmony between the drivers.

You don't pay one driver $40m a year and then give him a teammate who could take points off them. There's no hope of Seb moving aside and allowing Hamilton through. That would be a massive waste of money when they have all they need in Bottas - a trusted no.2 who will move aside, at $8m a year. Job's a good'ne.

Jordan 199

Inviere wrote: »

Seems the right choice for him, they're a team on the upswing, Merc engines coming, and a lot of capital behind them. Is retirement looking more & more likely now for Seb?

I think Danny should have stayed at Renault.

El_Duderino 09

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I think Danny should have stayed at Renault.

I can't agree with that. He doesn't have long to muck about anymore. He needs to get into a race winning car. The Renault plan was to begin to work to the budget cap and be the best under the new rules. But the budget cap was delayed, and is higher then Renault expected (drivers salaries aren't even included) and a bit of a joke to implement. So now Renault is just a small budget team.

Mclaren is definitely a better team in the short term and next year they get Merc's which is an automatic step up.

barryribs

Andrew76 wrote: »

Can't say I agree with this thinking. Ferrari have a better car than McLaren right now so it's the smarter choice - doesn't matter if they want him as a no. 2 driver - if he's fast enough to compete and beat Leclerc then that no. 2 role will disappear quickly enough, just like it did with Leclerc himself last year vs Vettel. If you get the chance you go with the better car and let your ability do the rest.

The problem is, Ferrari won't let them race and while Ferrari have a better car right now, with a Mercedes in the McLaren I think it will be very close. I understand why Sainz would want to make the move but I think that Reubens and Felipe probably thought the same too.

Corben Dallas

Still want Alonso at Renault, they will be wanting a big name and Alonso is it.

Hulkenberg would be a poor (>cheap) replacement for Danny.

re Alonso.. 'hes too old', Kimi is just enjoying the show +he was never as hungry for it as any of his rivals (hugely talented but going for WDC not life consuming).

Alonso is the Hungriest Hippo on the grid. He has unfinished business in F1. Alonso is as good as Hamilton and Vettel. end of.

+F1 badly needs characters like Kimi....he should continue racing.

The Schumacher Mercedes come back was done after too long out of the game, (he did no racing anywhere after he left Ferrari) Rosberg was nearly always better than him.

Mansell won his last race for Williams, was Indy Champ and the McLaren move was just wrong for both sides, but he was still doing it at the end of his career.

H3llR4iser

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I mean, you're right. Nobody really wants a 40 year old on the grid. He wouldn't be the old Fernando from his prime.

I think people have spent ages willing him I to a good car that we've probably all lost sight of the fact that he's almost certainly past it by now. Out with the old and in with the new.

I'd actually be more interested in looking for the next Alonso rather than pinning any hopes on a 40 year old. Alonso ballsed up his career and has nobody to blame but himself. It's a real shame.

Should I say, it's not really a matter of "out with the old", I do firmly think some of the "young talents" are overhyped and really don't agree with this idea of pushing little kids into F1 to "appeal to a younger generation", as sometimes it sends a VERY wrong message, especially when becomes clear a few of them needed a few additional seasons in lower formulae, get cocky and say iditic things a 20 years old would say in front of the cameras. It's obviously also a matter of character, some of the young fellas have their heads firmly screwed on their shoulder, others deserve a good slapping of sense.

Could Alonso be competitive at 40? Probably, he certainly has the talent to do so. But I find it really funny how people seem to use different measures for different folks, defining a 32 years old Vettel or a 35 years old Hamilton as "getting old".

weisses wrote: »

So you are now saying the torro rosso is a better car then the Red bull he was driving in ? ...... your hate for Verstappen is getting unhealthy I say

Don't put words in my mouth. The Toro Rosso is not on the level of the Red Bull, but Gasly simply wasn't granted the opportunity and support he needed to perform at his best at RB, as the team is entirely behind Max.

Performance wise, Ricciardo managed to weather the storm as he was more experienced and was with the team for years. Anyone new getting into RB, while Verstappen is there, is gonna be left to his own devices and be considered an "also run". Hardly the perfect environment to shine and thrive.

Sheeps

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I doubt he has any great plans to be honest. Seb is s disruptive influence at a team and he's not a prospect - almost certainly past his best. So they'd be inviting guaranteed disharmony between the drivers.

You don't pay one driver $40m a year and then give him a teammate who could take points off them. There's no hope of Seb moving aside and allowing Hamilton through. That would be a massive waste of money when they have all they need in Bottas - a trusted no.2 who will move aside, at $8m a year. Job's a good'ne.

There's no way Vettel is anywhere near past it. He's still one of the best drivers on the grid, and most drivers only peak in their mid 30's.

Also, being a number 2 driver at Ferrari is a very very different experience to being a number 2 driver at Mercedes.

jv2000

barryribs wrote: »

The problem is, Ferrari won't let them race and while Ferrari have a better car right now, with a Mercedes in the McLaren I think it will be very close. I understand why Sainz would want to make the move but I think that Reubens and Felipe probably thought the same too.

I do not fully understand the excitement about a mercedes engine. Mclaren couldn't make it work last time out and for all we know their chassis is a better fit for the Renault engine.

I also think that Vettel will be a back-up plan for Red Bull. If Hamilton suddenly retires then I can see Merc moving the earth to get Verstappen, Vettel as a short term replacement makes the most sense for RB. Also if for whatever reason Albon has a bad season this year (assuming it goes ahead) then Vettel could be a replacement considering both Alpha Tauri drivers are RB failures... Vettel and Verstappen in the same team, can't picture it but that would be fun for the viewer!

If Sainz has the talent to ever be a top tier driver then this is his chance.
I don't think he is a future world champion but his racecraft seems to be excellent. Even if he gets hammered he's unlikely to lose his place in F1 for being beaten by someone who is touted as a future world champion. Plus he gets to drive for Ferrari. It's win-win as far as I can see.

H3llR4iser

Sheeps wrote: »

Also, being a number 2 driver at Ferrari is a very very different experience to being a number 2 driver at Mercedes.

Why do people keep saying this utter tripe? We've seen Bottas being literally used as a roadblock; And Vettel himself covered the same role when asked in Spa last year.

Being a "designed #2" is bad, anywhere, for any driver(s) with any ambition. That's why while I think Sainz will be a good call for Ferrari in terms of raw pace (he will probably be able to match Leclerc), it might be a problematic choice in the long term.

Or maybe they are open to possibilities, and in case Carlos performs, they'd have their drivers on equal status - like it happened last year.

Corben Dallas

Oh and Alonso is 38 .... so hes definitely not too old!!!!!!

Inviere

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Why do people keep saying this utter tripe? We've seen Bottas being literally used as a roadblock

We've also seen Hamilton told to give a place back to Bottas after initially being let past but being unable to progress. There's no doubt he's a #2, but that'd never happen at Ferrari.

The only way for Sainz to really shine here is to continually out-qualify his team mate, and really hold his own in the races. It's that, or become the crimson-Bottas as someone here called him earlier :pac:

El_Duderino 09

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Should I say, it's not really a matter of "out with the old", I do firmly think some of the "young talents" are overhyped and really don't agree with this idea of pushing little kids into F1 to "appeal to a younger generation", as sometimes it sends a VERY wrong message, especially when becomes clear a few of them needed a few additional seasons in lower formulae, get cocky and say iditic things a 20 years old would say in front of the cameras. It's obviously also a matter of character, some of the young fellas have their heads firmly screwed on their shoulder, others deserve a good slapping of sense.

Could Alonso be competitive at 40? Probably, he certainly has the talent to do so. But I find it really funny how people seem to use different measures for different folks, defining a 32 years old Vettel or a 35 years old Hamilton as "getting old".

Of course all the young lads are over hyped. It's a Super competitive environment. They don't get to f1 because of talent alone as they need loads of investment. They're all hyped as if Stirling Moss and Juan Manuel Fangio had a baby and it was raised by Senna.

Thee are far more great drivers than world champions, far more drivers than great drivers, far more drivers who would be worth a shot at an F1 drive.

Yeah, maybe Alonso could be somewhat competitive. It might be worth seeing him.in a car just to see if he still has it or if he has succumbed to age. It would be better for the soap opera side of things. But I'd prefer to get a talented youngster into the sport and see how they can develop and get better (or not) rather than alonso relying on past glories and dwindling relevance.

barryribs

jv2000 wrote: »

I do not fully understand the excitement about a mercedes engine. Mclaren couldn't make it work last time out and for all we know their chassis is a better fit for the Renault engine.

In terms of reliability alone, it's a huge upgrade. Theres probably not much of a difference between the two engines in it in terms of the max output, but when you have to reduce the horsepower of the engine because of a conrod problem, you are definitely in trouble. That's a fundamental design problem