Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

jv2000

Inviere wrote: »

We've also seen Hamilton told to give a place back to Bottas after initially being let past but being unable to progress. There's no doubt he's a #2, but that'd never happen at Ferrari.

The only way for Sainz to really shine here is to continually out-qualify his team mate, and really hold his own in the races. It's that, or become the crimson-Bottas as someone here called him earlier :pac:

I know it is just a coincidence but Ferrari over the last 25 years or so has been the team where the #2 driver has had a realistic shot at winning championships. Look at Irvine in 99 following Schumacher's accident. From there the #2 drivers, Barichello and Massa were not able to compete with Schumacher. In 2008 however Kimi was the #1 driver and Massa raced and qualified better becoming the team focus by the end of the season. Something similar happened last year with Leclerc and Vettel.

The difference is that Mercedes are a lot more uptight on this and apart from the battle they had with Rosberg have been quite strict with driver hierarchy. Ferrari management is a mess and that gives the #2 drivers an opportunity.

jv2000

barryribs wrote: »

In terms of reliability alone, it's a huge upgrade. Theres probably not much of a difference between the two engines in it in terms of the max output, but when you have to reduce the horsepower of the engine because of a conrod problem, you are definitely in trouble. That's a fundamental design problem

Fair point and I had overlooked the shocking Renault reliability.

Cookie_Monster

jv2000 wrote: »

I do not fully understand the excitement about a mercedes engine. Mclaren couldn't make it work last time out and for all we know their chassis is a better fit for the Renault engine.

I also think that Vettel will be a back-up plan for Red Bull. If Hamilton suddenly retires then I can see Merc moving the earth to get Verstappen, Vettel as a short term replacement makes the most sense for RB. Also if for whatever reason Albon has a bad season this year (assuming it goes ahead) then Vettel could be a replacement considering both Alpha Tauri drivers are RB failures... Vettel and Verstappen in the same team, can't picture it but that would be fun for the viewer!

I would think as soon as Hamilton retires or leave merc they'll just pull out of the sport. No more reason for them to be there at this point, they've done everything and the expense is too big for the company with the.coming sales collapse

AMKC

barryribs wrote: »

In terms of reliability alone, it's a huge upgrade. Theres probably not much of a difference between the two engines in it in terms of the max output, but when you have to reduce the horsepower of the engine because of a conrod problem, you are definitely in trouble. That's a fundamental design problem

I think your getting that mixed up with the Honda engines that were used before last year.

I see Mclaren are going to raise £275 million by borrowing against the value of there HQ and Historic car collection.

As for who will get the Renault seat I think both Alonso and Hulkingberg are good options for them. Renault still need someone with lots of experience and they both have that. Another interesting option however could be Kimi but I think he is happy at Alfa.

barryribs

AMKC wrote: »

I think your getting that mixed up with the Honda engines that were used before last year.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renault-conrod-reliability-handicapped-engine/4394807/



Thats from last year and when they ramped it up towards the end of the year it got progressively worse (or it did in my memory at least)

skipper_G

Been very impressed with Sainz' growth as a driver over the last season. He was quick last year, good racecraft but more importantly he was consistent. It's a good move for him, good move for Ferrari. Vettel and Leclerc's relationship was almost toxic by the end of last season so this a chance for a reset

pyramuid man

Bit of a very long shot but just thought that Sergey Sirotkin may have a shot at the Renault seat. He is already a development driver and comes with a backer in SMP racing who are looking for a successful team to sponsor, out so it appeared when he left Williams.

bmc58

Corben Dallas wrote: »

Oh and Alonso is 38 .... so hes definitely not too old!!!!!!

It's not Alonso's age thats the problem to teams.

chicorytip

Leclerc is the loser on this merry go round. Ferrari clearly have doubts about his temperament and mentality and the appointment of Sainz - who is confident and unflappable - is a strategic one in the sense of putting it up to the Monagasque. It's a pity Seb never achieved his ambition of winning the title in a red car. I can't see him remaining unless a Mercedes seat becomes available. I think the sport needs these older drivers to stick around for as long as possible. The return of Alonso would be intriguing. The big three teams are likely to remain well clear of the rest in any event.

Top Dog

chicorytip wrote: »

Leclerc is the loser on this merry go round. Ferrari clearly have doubts about his temperament and mentality and the appointment of Sainz

I can't tell if you're serious or taking the mick?!


Leclerc signed a 5 year extension in December, showing that Ferrari CLEARLY have faith in him and his abilities.

El_Duderino 09

chicorytip wrote: »

Leclerc is the loser on this merry go round. Ferrari clearly have doubts about his temperament and mentality and the appointment of Sainz - who is confident and unflappable - is a strategic one in the sense of putting it up to the Monagasque. It's a pity Seb never achieved his ambition of winning the title in a red car. I can't see him remaining unless a Mercedes seat becomes available. I think the sport needs these older drivers to stick around for as long as possible. The return of Alonso would be intriguing. The big three teams are likely to remain well clear of the rest in any event.

Can't say I agree that ferrari have brought in Sainz because thy doubt LeClerc. It's normal to want a strong driver lineup. Last year they started with a pretty clear one-two driver setup. Then they changed their approach when it became sensible to do so. I'd say it's the same again with the 2021 line-up. They'll just back the faster driver.

I also think it's fine for old drivers to leave when their time comes. I wouldn't encourage them to stay around just because they're the established names. I know it's an advantage to have name recognition but I'm always happy to see the young lads come through and see which ones make it and which ones don't.

Spudman_20000

I hope Vettel stays in the sport. There's been a lot of revisionism on his career over the past few days in the media, some of it warranted but some of it very unfair to 4 time world champion.

The fact that Alonso wasn't able to deliver a title either for Ferrari should say more about the team itself rather than the drivers.

El_Duderino 09

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

I hope Vettel stays in the sport. There's been a lot of revisionism on his career over the past few days in the media, some of it warranted but some of it very unfair to 4 time world champion.

The fact that Alonso wasn't able to deliver a title either for Ferrari should say more about the team itself rather than the drivers.

Depends on what they're saying about him. If they say he's a 4time WDC and he's been beaten by young teammates in 2014 and 2019 and has had a pretty poor last two seasons, had the car to win in 2018 but kept messing up, that would be fair analysis.

eviltimeban

Fair play to Sainz, he gets to follow in the footsteps of Alonso, his idol. Another Spaniard in a Ferrari. While he may not be a championship challenger I hope he gets to enjoy a competitive season and bags a couple of race wins.

Poor D Ric must feel like the unwanted guest at a party though. Unless he's eyeing up Mercedes.

And Alonso to Renault doesn't make a lot of sense (for Alonso), unless it's just a way for him to get back on the grid. It was like Kimi to Alfa - he was never gonna win races there, so it was just to keep racing. While I'd love to see Alonso in a competitive car, just to see what he could do, it's probably never gonna happen now.

g1983d

eviltimeban wrote: »

Fair play to Sainz, he gets to follow in the footsteps of Alonso, his idol. Another Spaniard in a Ferrari. While he may not be a championship challenger I hope he gets to enjoy a competitive season and bags a couple of race wins.

Poor D Ric must feel like the unwanted guest at a party though. Unless he's eyeing up Mercedes.

And Alonso to Renault doesn't make a lot of sense (for Alonso), unless it's just a way for him to get back on the grid. It was like Kimi to Alfa - he was never gonna win races there, so it was just to keep racing. While I'd love to see Alonso in a competitive car, just to see what he could do, it's probably never gonna happen now.

Kimi to lotus was his route back into F1 too though, hard to know what happens in F1 in the future but if you want to race it's better to be in the grid in some form rather than looking in from outside

recyclebin

Sainz to Ferrari must have been done a while. Sainz just put up a very professionally produced video of him writing a thank you letter to McLaren.

https://youtu.be/GvJEmnHnG1U

El_Duderino 09

g1983d wrote: »

Kimi to lotus was his route back into F1 too though, hard to know what happens in F1 in the future but if you want to race it's better to be in the grid in some form rather than looking in from outside

Kimi left of his own accord. Alonso left because nobody wanted him because he was too disruptive. I'm doubtful anyone wants him now when he's equally disruptive but a few years older an less fast.

g1983d

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Kimi left of his own accord. Alonso left because nobody wanted him because he was too disruptive. I'm doubtful anyone wants him now when he's equally disruptive but a few years older an less fast.

Oh I know, Kimi was helped with a big payout but was his choice.

My point though was that any driver looking to get into a big team has a better chance when hes on the grid rather than on the playstation at home

vectra

g1983d wrote: »

Oh I know, Kimi was helped with a big payout but was his choice.

My point though was that any driver looking to get into a big team has a better chance when hes on the grid rather than on the playstation at home

You have to consider Kimi's age when he returned to Lotus compared to Alonso's age now.

El_Duderino 09

g1983d wrote: »

Oh I know, Kimi was helped with a big payout but was his choice.

My point though was that any driver looking to get into a big team has a better chance when hes on the grid rather than on the playstation at home

You're right in that, of course. But as Vectra points out, We're talking the 2021 season as his first year back. He'll turn 40 in July on next year. And if he's looking for a drive with a bigger team the next year in 2022, then he'll be 41 that year.

Really and truly, the Alonso ship has sailed. I'd much prefer to see the likes of Russel, Norris, Riciardo, Verstappen, and maybe a superstar we haven't seen in F1 yet (whichever is proving the best), take that place at a top team rather than a 41 year old alonso

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You're right in that, of course. But as Vectra points out, We're talking the 2021 season as his first year back. He'll turn 40 in July on next year. And if he's looking for a drive with a bigger team the next year in 2022, then he'll be 41 that year.

Really and truly, the Alonso ship has sailed. I'd much prefer to see the likes of Russel, Norris, Riciardo, Verstappen, and maybe a superstar we haven't seen in F1 yet (whichever is proving the best), take that place at a top team rather than a 41 year old alonso

I think leave Max where he is,
If he was in the current Merc, the days of his battles would be long gone.
I enjoy watching him on his good days. IE. when he has a controlled great drive and not a wreckless one.

Harika

Silverstone has found agreement and will go ahead pending government approvals.
red bull provided the concept to the government and is awaiting review.
Edit; spa has government go

Frank Bullitt

chicorytip

Top Dog wrote: »

I can't tell if you're serious or taking the mick?!


Leclerc signed a 5 year extension in December, showing that Ferrari CLEARLY have faith in him and his abilities.

I would have doubts about the judgement of the hierarchy at Ferrari at present as well. They are not real motor racing people of the type they had there during Schumacher's time but more like marketing men trying to promote the brand rather than creating a winning team.

pjohnson

F1 Youtube showing the 2012 European Grand Prix! Starts at 3pm!

Cork Trucker

pjohnson wrote: »

F1 Youtube showing the 2012 European Grand Prix! Starts at 3pm!

Schumacher’s final podium

Jordan 199

pjohnson wrote: »

F1 Youtube showing the 2012 European Grand Prix! Starts at 3pm!

That was a great race. Was a great year in F1 too.

g1983d

Rumour mill suggests Alonso in his way to Renault with Liberty stumping up some of his salary demands

flazio

g1983d wrote: »

Rumour mill suggests Alonso in his way to Renault with Liberty stumping up some of his salary demands

I'd be pretty peeved off if I were one of the other midfield teams, or Williams. Why would Liberty Media give one specific team help in signing a driver over other teams?

antodeco

I was at this race!