Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Cork Trucker

If Vettel gets the Merc drive it’ll be for one or two seasons max. Then Russell will get the nod, don’t see Ocon getting a Merc seat now.

Sheeps

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If Vettel gets the Merc drive it’ll be for one or two seasons max. Then Russell will get the nod, don’t see Ocon getting a Merc seat now.

I would definitely agree given George's activity over the covid period and expanding his personal brand with sim racing has given him an advantage. I think that did his career wonders.

I think Ocon's main competitor in Formula1 is still Russell and if he can prove himself against Daniel Ricciardo and Alonso next year then he'll position himself nicely.

George Russel has a Rookie to show himself against, so he really needs to be beating better teams. That's probably a lot more difficult for him to do at Williams.

Cork Trucker

Sheeps wrote: »

I would definitely agree given George's activity over the covid period and expanding his personal brand with sim racing has given him an advantage. I think that did his career wonders.

I think Ocon's main competitor in Formula1 is still Russell and if he can prove himself against Daniel Ricciardo and Alonso next year then he'll position himself nicely.

George Russel has a Rookie to show himself against, so he really needs to be beating better teams. That's probably a lot more difficult for him to do at Williams.

Agreed! The boy can race well in the virtual world, no question about that.

I see Alonso being the next Schumacher, do 2/3 years after being out, no luck, leaves and Renault find their form.

As for Russell in reality, impossible to judge him, Kubica was his teammate last year after a 9 year absence and a permanent disability, Latifi is a rookie who I see as F1’s next Sirorkin, he’ll vanish off the face of the grid before his time unless done one else picks him up

GarIT

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Agreed! The boy can race well in the virtual world, no question about that.

I see Alonso being the next Schumacher, do 2/3 years after being out, no luck, leaves and Renault find their form.

As for Russell in reality, impossible to judge him, Kubica was his teammate last year after a 9 year absence and a permanent disability, Latifi is a rookie who I see as F1’s next Sirorkin, he’ll vanish off the face of the grid before his time unless done one else picks him up

Latifi's dad is currently in negotiations to buy one of at least 3 teams. I can't see him disappearing anytime soon.

Sheeps

GarIT wrote: »

Latifi's dad is currently in negotiations to buy one of at least 3 teams. I can't see him disappearing anytime soon.

I actually think despite the fact he has a wave of wealth backing him, he's a good driver and he'll get a chance to prove that.

GarIT

Sheeps wrote: »

I actually think despite the fact he has a wave of wealth backing him, he's a good driver and he'll get a chance to prove that.

He lost 28 seconds to Russel in 5 laps after the safety car. Unless he spun or pit and it wasn't shown he is a complete joke.

Sheeps

GarIT wrote: »

He lost 28 seconds to Russel in 5 laps after the safety car. Unless he spun or pit and it wasn't shown he is a complete joke.

I stand by my statement but stand to be corrected on this later on in the season. I don't believe that last last race was a good enough measure to write him off given that he was likely under immense pressure for his debut race in a dog **** car. He has some decent results from F2 to back up his ability.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Agreed! The boy can race well in the virtual world, no question about that.

I see Alonso being the next Schumacher, do 2/3 years after being out, no luck, leaves and Renault find their form.

As for Russell in reality, impossible to judge him, Kubica was his teammate last year after a 9 year absence and a permanent disability, Latifi is a rookie who I see as F1’s next Sirorkin, he’ll vanish off the face of the grid before his time unless done one else picks him up

I'd agree with all that except Latifi vanishing. His dad is the only current candidate to buy Williams. Same deal as Stroll but I read that Daddy Latifi makes daddy Stroll seem middle class.

Latifi also currently owns 10% of McLaren so he have to sell that which would only add to McLaren's problems. They're currently borrowed to the tune of over 1billion dollars.

El_Duderino 09

GarIT wrote: »

He lost 28 seconds to Russel in 5 laps after the safety car. Unless he spun or pit and it wasn't shown he is a complete joke.

I saw that too but I didn't see how he lost all that time. He was keeping relatively close to Russel up to that point so I think he must have spun or had some kind of temporary problem.

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'd agree with all that except Latifi vanishing. His dad is the only current candidate to buy Williams. Same deal as Stroll but I read that Daddy Latifi makes daddy Stroll seem middle class.

Latifi also currently owns 10% of McLaren so he have to sell that which would only add to McLaren's problems. They're currently borrowed to the tune of over 1billion dollars.

Daddy Latifi has deeper pockets than Daddy Stroll? Didn’t realise that. I don’t see Latifi in a McLaren if Daddy tried to buy. Williams is the cheapest option for such.

vectra

Sheeps wrote: »

I can see how Alonso will be a force of good at Renault. If the team is a mess they need a strong character who can drive the **** out of a poor car that the team can rally around. Alonso helped turn the tide at McLaren with Zac, and he can do the same for Renault. Ocon will benefit from him being there too, because he was a test driver and if there's one thing the previous couple of years has done for him it is give him the experience to adapt his driving style to drive a car built around someone else. He can soak up some of that experience and use it for his own gain.

Huhh??
McLaren were nowhere until Alonso was gone.

AMKC

Alonso coming back must be this seasons worst kept secret. I know Renault have a couple of other options but if the team is in a mess then they need someone with experience to get them motivated and turn the team around. It will be interesting to see how long he signs for. Will it be for 1 year, 2 years or 3?

Adamocovic

I’d have to dig it up but I remember Russell saying he spoke to Toto/Mercedes all the time, every week or something he said.

Toto clearly rates him, and I think all the talk of him not wanting to throw him in the deep end too soon somewhat shows that. With Russell’s ability they could have a long term replacement who will be competitive on track and profitable in the market.

Don’t see Ocon as a long term option for Merc myself.

Sheeps

vectra wrote: »

Huhh??
McLaren were nowhere until Alonso was gone.

McLaren were in the doldrums because of their management structure and it only started to make progress when they replaced a tripod leadership structure with a Zac Brown as the sole leader of the team.

Alonso helped develop the car that lead to the resurgence of McLaren and he was part of the journey back.

GarIT

Toto is Russels manager AFAIK, so it would be normal for them to talk often even if there isn't a Mercedes deal in the future.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Daddy Latifi has deeper pockets than Daddy Stroll? Didn’t realise that. I don’t see Latifi in a McLaren if Daddy tried to buy. Williams is the cheapest option for such.

Yeah, Joe Saward has been suggesting this for the last couple of years. He says Latifi is much wealthier and could buy the team for fun. Stroll is head of a consortium at racing point and he's borrowing the money for his share as part of a business deal.

Williams certainly seems like the right option. Mclaren seems like a much more robust organisation at the moment they're weak hit they're not actually for sale at the moment. They're just trying to sell more shares/get more loans.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Huhh??
McLaren were nowhere until Alonso was gone.

Is alonso getting credit for building the next year's car now? Is there nothing he can't be given credit for?

El_Duderino 09

Sheeps wrote: »

...

Alonso helped develop the car that lead to the resurgence of McLaren and he was part of the journey back.

So does Lewis get the same credit for developing best car on the grid? He must be the best at developing cars since he's been in the best car for years now.

In truth, as fans we don't have a clue how much the driver influences the car development and whether their input is actually positive or not. Alonso is getting credit in proportion to how much peope like him. In other words, it's made up.

Sheeps

Mclaren have credited Alonso with those credentials.

GarIT

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is alonso getting credit for building the next year's car now? Is there nothing he can't be given credit for?

Ruining the teams he drove for, that wasn't on him :cool:

El_Duderino 09

GarIT wrote: »

Ruining the teams he drove for, that wasn't on him :cool:

Only good things can be attributed to him, so it seems.

skipper_G

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Only good things can be attributed to him, so it seems.

Sure didn’t Fernando fix Honda as well, gave them a motivational speech about their GP2 engines and then they were back to winning ways in no time. Not with Mclaren obviously as that relationship was ruined beyond repair, but that probably had nothing to do with Alonso at all.....

pjohnson

Not suprised at the response some here have to Alonso. It seems once over 32 a driver should just retire. I'm sure Stoffel was the true star of their partnership together!


Hilarious but predictable retcon's going on!

pjohnson

Some of the experts here need to get onto Zak Brown fast. They are more qualified than the man he made principal.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/41767/alonso-vandoorne-to-thank-for-mclaren-s-newfound-success/



McLaren team principal Andreas Seidl says an impressive start to the 2019 campaign would not be possible without the input of last year's drivers Fernando Alonso and Stoffel Vandoorne."

""It simply shows that a lot of the changes that were triggered last year are paying off. The team did a good job in bringing this year's car on track.

They understood a lot after the input of the drivers from last year, and we should pay a lot of credit to Fernando and Stoffel, pointing out what the weaknesses were and what direction we needed to develop the car. That all pays off now."




Or maybe people who dont know shouldn't declare "fans dont know" simply because THEY dont? THATS making things up tbh.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Not suprised at the response some here have to Alonso. It seems once over 32 a driver should just retire. I'm sure Stoffel was the true star of their partnership together!


Hilarious but predictable retcon's going on!

None of those things represent my opinion. But why do so many people think the way forwards in f1, is to go backwards? Between people fawning over Kubica. Do you remember the lengths people went to to defend his dire performance last year?

People who want to go back to old technology engines. Others who want to go back to privateer teams like stroll and latifi buying teams for their sons to be guarantees drivers for life. People who want old drivers to come out of retirement.

Why is the preferred way forward, to go backwards?

vectra

Sheeps wrote: »

McLaren were in the doldrums because of their management structure and it only started to make progress when they replaced a tripod leadership structure with a Zac Brown as the sole leader of the team.

Alonso helped develop the car that lead to the resurgence of McLaren and he was part of the journey back.

If that be the case are we to believe that Schumacher helped develope the Merc into what it is today?
While at the same time being beaten hands down by his teammate? :o

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

None of those things represent my opinion. But why do so many people think the way forwards in f1, is to go backwards? Between people fawning over Kubica. Do you remember the lengths people went to to defend his dire performance last year?

People who want to go back to old technology engines. Others who want to go back to privateer teams like stroll and latifi buying teams for their sons to be guarantees drivers for life. People who want old drivers to come out of retirement.

Why is the preferred way forward, to go backwards?

I wouldn’t mind going back to a time when F1 was actually exciting and competitive. When the product has been so utterly dire for the last 6 years, it might be smart and look back to what used to make F1 good.

I’m curious how many actual new fans F1 has acquired since 2014, and how many people are just holding out hope that one day it’ll be back to how it used to be.

flazio

vectra wrote: »

If that be the case are we to believe that Schumacher helped develope the Merc into what it is today?
While at the same time being beaten hands down by his teammate? :o

Actually, yes. Just because he wasn't able to get more out of the car then Rosberg, doesn't mean he didn’t provide vital feedback on what was and wasn't working on the car. Rosberg wouldn't have been world champion without that time with Michael.

eviltimeban

vectra wrote: »

If that be the case are we to believe that Schumacher helped develope the Merc into what it is today?
While at the same time being beaten hands down by his teammate? :o

No it was Villeneuve all along. Helped develop the BAR into the Honda into the Brawn into the Mercedes.

If it wasn't for Villeneuve, Hamilton wouldn't have won those titles. :pac:

El_Duderino 09

flazio wrote: »

Actually, yes. Just because he wasn't able to get more out of the car then Rosberg, doesn't mean he didn’t provide vital feedback on what was and wasn't working on the car. Rosberg wouldn't have been world champion without that time with Michael.

OK. But that's just total speculation. We have no idea what he actually did or didn't do. He might have provided feedback that was unhelpful or even counterproductive. We don't have a clue, if we're honest.