Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

So only partially his fault? It isn't really nit picking if they happened and he was involved.

Name 5 drivers of any era that never made a mistake while pushing.

g1983d

If Vettel does sign for RP would it kick off the driver merry go round early?
RP dump/move Stroll, Vettel in there, Sainz move to Ferrari, Danny Ric move to McLaren and Alonso come into Renault.

Certainly Ferrari, Vettel, Renault, Ric would go for it now as relationships are gone so sooner the moves happen the better in their eyes.

I do think Perez will keep his seat and another seat will be bought for stroll

TCP/IP

One thing is for sure its going make make for some cracking racing and interviews this weekend.

g1983d

TCP/IP wrote: »

One thing is for sure its going make make for some cracking racing and interviews this weekend.

A season with so many drivers moving teams has to be good for racing as they won't give a fiddlers about team orders :-)

TCP/IP

g1983d wrote: »

A season with so many drivers moving teams has to be good for racing as they won't give a fiddlers about team orders :-)

And a lot of drivers will be out to prove a point.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

Name 5 drivers of any era that never made a mistake while pushing.

Of course drivers have made errors. You bringing up this question seems to me like you can't really address the mistake he had made.

Frank Bullitt

g1983d wrote: »

If Vettel does sign for RP would it kick off the driver merry go round early?
RP dump/move Stroll, Vettel in there, Sainz move to Ferrari, Danny Ric move to McLaren and Alonso come into Renault.

Certainly Ferrari, Vettel, Renault, Ric would go for it now as relationships are gone so sooner the moves happen the better in their eyes.

I do think Perez will keep his seat and another seat will be bought for stroll

IF he does get the boot, surely Haas would be all over him, he brings a fortune with him.

GarIT

vectra wrote: »

Name 5 drivers of any era that never made a mistake while pushing.

I can name the only two driver that have matched Vettel for number of mistakes in the last 10 years. Grosjean, Maldonado.

GarIT

g1983d wrote: »

If Vettel does sign for RP would it kick off the driver merry go round early?
RP dump/move Stroll, Vettel in there, Sainz move to Ferrari, Danny Ric move to McLaren and Alonso come into Renault.

Certainly Ferrari, Vettel, Renault, Ric would go for it now as relationships are gone so sooner the moves happen the better in their eyes.

I do think Perez will keep his seat and another seat will be bought for stroll

Then why is Perez's family getting involved in a campaign to try to keep his seat and why did he say today he has been approached by another team for 2021?

Infoanon

Gintonious wrote: »

IF he does get the boot, surely Haas would be all over him, he brings a fortune with him.

IF Haas decide to stay in F1 - it's as Grosjean said earlier the elephant in the room.

If Gene Haas does decide to leave ie sell the team having a well sponsored driver would help sweeten the deal.

g1983d

GarIT wrote: »

Then why is Perez's family getting involved in a campaign to try to keep his seat and why did he say today he has been approached by another team for 2021?

Its all a game, Perez seems to be wiley enough based on the fact he was the one that forced the sale of the team to stroll.

Here he is upping his profile making it harder for RP to dump him.
As mentioned solve though, if he foes go it will be with a wad of cash in his pocket and a team like haas more than welcoming.

Whod get the boot at Haas? K Mag?

afatbollix

I just looked up Daddy Stroll on companys house he owns over 75% of racing point.

Interestingly he set up AMR GP ltd in Feburary which must be Aston Martin Racing GP

They also have a 10 page document about the Aston martin sponsorship in racing point.


What I get from that is that once Stroll owns the team his son is going nowhere.

Adamocovic

Vettel confirmed talks with RP ongoing but no contract is on the table. Said just loose talks.

Also said:
“ Anything at this stage is still open — driving next year, not driving next year and maybe coming back or not driving anymore and doing something different. I’m not feeling pressure to make my decision too quickly.”

Love him or hate him but he’s be a loss to the grid. Always entertaining no matter the result.

GarIT

g1983d wrote: »

Its all a game, Perez seems to be wiley enough based on the fact he was the one that forced the sale of the team to stroll.

Here he is upping his profile making it harder for RP to dump him.
As mentioned solve though, if he foes go it will be with a wad of cash in his pocket and a team like haas more than welcoming.

Whod get the boot at Haas? K Mag?

I might have replied to the wrong person or misread you. I thought someone was saying there was no chance Perez will go, rather than you just think he won't.

I think it would have to be Grosjean out at Haas, I think he has shown he can be the better driver but overall hasn't been on average.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Of course drivers have made errors. You bringing up this question seems to me like you can't really address the mistake he had made.

What is there to address?

GarIT wrote: »

I can name the only two driver that have matched Vettel for number of mistakes in the last 10 years. Grosjean, Maldonado.

Sorry, but I said name 5 that have not made a mistake.

Frank Bullitt

vectra wrote: »

What is there to address?

Someone said that Vettels form had been poor, you implied it was Ferraris form that was poor. I showed you a list of errors that were on Vettel and his driving. Hence, not addressing his errors

g1983d

GarIT wrote: »

I might have replied to the wrong person or misread you. I thought someone was saying there was no chance Perez will go, rather than you just think he won't.

I think it would have to be Grosjean out at Haas, I think he has shown he can be the better driver but overall hasn't been on average.

There's Everley chance Perez could lose his seat but at the same time he is shrewd enough to keep it too.
It may be cheaper for boss man stroll to but Lance a seat at another team though rather than buy out Perez.
Who knows though really, with F1 you could see Ville Villenuve back in a car :-)

Grosjean makes sense but they seem to like him for development and K Mag seems to be fired and clash with Gunther based on what I've seen on drive to survive

pyramuid man

g1983d wrote: »

Grosjean makes sense but they seem to like him for development and K Mag seems to be fired and clash with Gunther based on what I've seen on drive to survive

Grosjean is a company man and always takes responsibility when he is in the wrong (except when Marcus Ericsson was driving). K Mag slams doors and makes a big hullabaloo when things go wrong. Grosjean is additionally very positive about the team even when things go wrong whereas K Mag rarely is.

Esteban Gutierrez was the exact same. Not a bad driver but does nothing for the team and gives an air of Haas being a stop gap in his career rather than a team he is committed to.

There is a reason that Grosjean is renewed every year.

Having said that, there was a video by F1 yesterday where Will Buxton said he had asked each of the Haas drivers if they want to be on the grid in 2021. K Mag said yes, and Grosjean was altogether more non-committal in his answer.

vectra

Gintonious wrote: »

Someone said that Vettels form had been poor, you implied it was Ferraris form that was poor.

Merc has totally dominated the hybrid era. Are you saying Ferrari were on par ?

Ferrari were lucky in 2007 to win. Since then it has been downhill for them.

Gintonious wrote: »

I showed you a list of errors that were on Vettel and his driving. Hence, not addressing his errors

I did reply and said not all those errors were solely his fault and I then asked you to name 5 drivers from any era that never made a driver error.
Which you failed to address.

Anjobe

vectra wrote: »

Merc has totally dominated the hybrid era. Are you saying Ferrari were on par ?

Ferrari were lucky in 2007 to win. Since then it has been downhill for them.



I did reply and said not all those errors were solely his fault and I then asked you to name 5 drivers from any era that never made a driver error.
Which you failed to address.

FFS, there are no drivers who have made no errors at all, that is a ridiculous thing to ask.

It is clear that Vettel has made far more errors in the last 3 years or so than would be expected of someone with his experience and WDC titles. That is the point that was being made and that you appear unable to accept.

Cork Trucker

When I hear of the amount of errors people talk about with Vettel the first thing I think of every time is Jackie Stewart interviewing Senna.

This is it

I'm struggling to keep up with the argument above, it seems to be going in circles, but I will say that for a top driver Seb seems to be more error prone than others recently. All drivers make mistakes, but some more than others and right now, with only anecdotal evidence, Vettel is in the "more than others" category in my opinion.

vectra

Anjobe wrote: »

FFS, there are no drivers who have made no errors at all, that is a ridiculous thing to ask.

It is clear that Vettel has made far more errors in the last 3 years or so than would be expected of someone with his experience and WDC titles. That is the point that was being made and that you appear unable to accept.

Keep your hat on.
I DID say he was responsible for SOME of his errors, But I would say that the lack of a decent car was the cause of the majority of them.

Anjobe

vectra wrote: »

Keep your hat on.
I DID say he was responsible for SOME of his errors, But I would say that the lack of a decent car was the cause of the majority of them.

He was responsible for most of them, and some of those were really really poor for a supposed top driver. Vettel looked like an absolute superstar in the first 5 years of his career, but in the last 3 he has been really ordinary. His mediocrity has contributed to Ferrari's just as much as the other way round.

vectra

Anjobe wrote: »

He was responsible for most of them, and some of those were really really poor for a supposed top driver. Vettel looked like an absolute superstar in the first 5 years of his career, but in the last 3 he has been really ordinary. His mediocrity has contributed to Ferrari's just as much as the other way round.

You know what they say,
Opinions are like "Ar$ehole$" and we all have one.
I do agree as already said that some were his own doing, but not all the ones listed earlier.

But anyway as I said about opinions.
Lets keep the fingers crossed the RP win their case in the Tracing Point case and that Vettel does in fact drive for them next season.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Alonso is possibly the best driver of the "new generation" that came in from 04-08. Vettel is an upper tier driver who won a race in an erstwhile minardi (torro rosso at monza).

These are two drivers at the pinnacle of their sporting abilities. The fact that ferrari wasted both of their careers in sub par cars is criminal. Massa is an upper mid card driver at best, and almost lucked into a title in '07.
Kimi should have done more with his career so cant blame the ferrari on that.

Joe Saward was talking about that this week. That TR car Vettel drove to win in Monza was back when teams could share entire car's. So you can call it an minardi but it was actually the Adrian Newey Red Bull from that year. The TR had ferrari engines which were actually better than the works team used that year.

But in any case, one of those drivers is in a massive dip in form and the other has been out of the sport for two years and has absolutely no form. Calling those two drivers "at the pinnacle of their sporting abilities" is just wishful thinking.

This goes to show how far peope are willing to go to create a narrative in the lack of evidence or even in spite of evidence to the contrary.

Anjobe

LIGHTNING wrote: »

What a complete load of utter tosh

No it isn’t

Anjobe

vectra wrote: »

You know what they say,
Opinions are like "Ar$ehole$" and we all have one.
I do agree as already said that some were his own doing, but not all the ones listed earlier.

But anyway as I said about opinions.
Lets keep the fingers crossed the RP win their case in the Tracing Point case and that Vettel does in fact drive for them next season.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Yeah, deliberately driving into another car behind the safety car, or just driving off the road under no pressure when leading a GP, real marks of greatness those

chicorytip

Gintonious wrote: »

IF he does get the boot, surely Haas would be all over him, he brings a fortune with him.

Did he not bail out Racing Point with his own - as distinct from his sponsors - money at some stage?

Killinator

Anjobe wrote: »

Yeah, deliberately driving into another car behind the safety car, or just driving off the road under no pressure when leading a GP, real marks of greatness those

Senna is universally considered a great, and he ran other drivers off the road and drove into them if he felt it helped his situation....oh and he also crashed at Monaco in 1988 with a 55 second lead because of a momentary lapse in concentration under no pressure.......so......