Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

ELM327

chicorytip wrote: »

The racing is still interesting and the drivers are highly talented but most of them have boring personalities. The team managers, are boring and the sports administrators are boring. In order to save the sport major manufacturers like BMW, GM, Toyota and Ford and maybe the likes of Lamborghini would enter as full works outfits and customer teams would be excluded. This is the only measure that will create a more competitive championship rather than the two horse race it has become in recent seasons.

Customer teams excluded?
Like... pretty much.. all of the non -ferrari teams that won WDCs have been customer teams. Redbull, Mclaren, Williams, Benetton to name just 4 from the last 25 years.

Have you ever watched F1?

chicorytip

ELM327 wrote: »

Customer teams excluded?
Like... pretty much.. all of the non -ferrari teams that won WDCs have been customer teams. Redbull, Mclaren, Williams, Benetton to name just 4 from the last 25 years.

Have you ever watched F1?

All those you mention have or had massive financial resources of their own to deploy in the areas of design and driver recruitment and to buy the best engines. In the current context Sauber, Haas, Alpha Tauri and, regrettably, Williams are just customers, nurseries and minnows and should no longer be on the grid.

Frank Bullitt

eviltimeban wrote: »

Of course I watched them. I've been watching F1 since about 1988.

What I'm saying is, it always seemed like someone was scampering off into the distance. I'm talking about those races where, say, Vettel would be on pole about a second faster than P2, lead into the first corner, and then never be seen again til the chequered flag.

Replace "Vettel" with "Hamilton" and you have the last handful of years.

Santan

Open to correction but was it only 2013 that Vettel really had the car that gave him this reputation of pole, and 1st corner gone into the distance, he destroyed the grid including webber the latter part of the year, but I don't remember him doing this in the same way the previous years.

Frank Bullitt

Santan wrote: »

Open to correction but was it only 2013 that Vettel really had the car that gave him this reputation of pole, and 1st corner gone into the distance, he destroyed the grid including webber the latter part of the year, but I don't remember him doing this in the same way the previous years.

2011 stands out to me, he was ran close in some races but the RB was solid, it was also the first year of the Pirelli and DRS...so actually, maybe you are right, once they ironed out a few things in 2013 they were unmatched.

namloc1980

How things have come around.... https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/24428367

Cork Trucker

namloc1980 wrote: »

How things have come around.... https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/24428367

Vettel would be destroyed by the the British media if he said that, no one is allowed slate darling Lewis :rolleyes:

Killinator

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Vettel would be destroyed by the the British media if he said that, no one is allowed slate darling Lewis :rolleyes:

That's a bit much, the vast majority of the article is Lewis hugely praising how well Vettel was doing at the time.
And he was right, people at the time were complaining about how dominant Vettel and the RB were to the point as highlighted in the article Seb was getting booed on the podium!

And it's a BBC article. If Vettel went to the German media with the same thing he probably wouldn't be torn apart for saying it.

Frank Bullitt

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Vettel would be destroyed by the the British media if he said that, no one is allowed slate darling Lewis :rolleyes:

I always remind myself that the point of view I mostly get on F1 comes from the Brit media...no bias in there at all.

Top Dog

Anjobe wrote: »

I don't know whether there was an interview with Toto or whether one of the Sky guys was just talking about a conversation with him, but apparently he said that Ferrari's engine developments over the last couple of years had effectively forced Mercedes into additional development of their own to keep up. When the FIA put a stop to whatever Ferrari were doing this left Mercedes well out in front again. Ferrari somehow managing to shoot themselves in both feet!

Most of thre relevant stuff Toto said is covered in this video. I particularly like him straight up calling bull on Ferrari claims.

Frank Bullitt

“That’s what we’re fighting for. We’re fighting for change in organizations. I think Mercedes… I honestly continue to be really proud of my team. And I know you could say that I’m biased, but I’m not. My team has actually held themselves accountable and continue to really try and follow through in understanding it. My team took the knee at the last race, and that takes a lot of guts and open-heartedness to fight with that."

Wait until Hamilton finds out about LGBT rights in Malaysia. (Petronas, title sponsor of Merc, are government owned).

wally1990

Gintonious wrote: »

Wait until Hamilton finds out about LGBT rights in Malaysia. (Petronas, title sponsor of Merc, are government owned).

Just googled it there, how the hell did you know their stance (visited there/work there) ha, never knew

Frank Bullitt

wally1990 wrote: »

Just googled it there, how the hell did you know their stance (visited there/work there) ha, never knew

Read it on Vice news recently.

Religious Affairs Minister Zulkifli Mohamad says he has given ‘full license’ to Islamic authorities to bring transgender people ‘back to the right path’

Fairly scary stuff. There was also some tuff about 10 years ago about Sudan and war crimes. As a company, Petrobas has a bit of a sketchy past (most oil companies do though).

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

Customer teams excluded?
Like... pretty much.. all of the non -ferrari teams that won WDCs have been customer teams. Redbull, Mclaren, Williams, Benetton to name just 4 from the last 25 years.

Have you ever watched F1?

Red bull and Mclaren were both works teams. The had a works relationship with the engine supplier. I don't know about Williams and Benetton.

Mercedes had bought a large hunk of shared in the McLaren team and they had to divest when they bought another team.

H3llR4iser

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Red bull and Mclaren were both works teams. The had a works relationship with the engine supplier. I don't know about Williams and Benetton.

Mercedes had bought a large hunk of shared in the McLaren team and they had to divest when they bought another team.

I can confirm both Williams and Benetton had "works" arrangements during their success years. In 1995, the unique situation was that BOTH Williams and Benetton had a works deal with Renault (which didn't go down too well with Williams, at the time).

Cork Trucker

H3llR4iser wrote: »

I can confirm both Williams and Benetton had "works" arrangements during their success years. In 1995, the unique situation was that BOTH Williams and Benetton had a works deal with Renault (which didn't go down too well with Williams, at the time).

Benetton got the Renault deal by nicking it from Ligier whom were then owned by Flavio Briatore and Tom Walkinshaw before he left to take over footwork.

Didn’t Briatore also have a stake in Minardi around then?

recyclebin

Anyone think Mercedes engine is doing something a bit suspect? There is quite a lot of smoke under acceleration. Maybe Toto has been crying so much about Ferrari as a distraction....

vectra

recyclebin wrote: »

Anyone think Mercedes engine is doing something a bit suspect? There is quite a lot of smoke under acceleration. Maybe Toto has been crying so much about Ferrari as a distraction....

As the old saying goes,
"There is never smoke without fire" :pac:

pjohnson

Red Bull/AlphaTauri wont have a reserve driver as it stands for the British races. Both Buemi and Camara will be in Germany for the Formula E finale.

Neither Daruvala or Tsunoda have the criteria for a superlicence.

TCP/IP

recyclebin wrote: »

Anyone think Mercedes engine is doing something a bit suspect? There is quite a lot of smoke under acceleration. Maybe Toto has been crying so much about Ferrari as a distraction....

As I said after the last GP I really feel this era of dominance by Merc will have a cloud over it in the future when the truth eventually comes out about its ridiculous performance advantage. This years car in particular stinks of an illegal car but of course it's not until this is proven.

recyclebin

TCP/IP wrote: »

As I said after the last GP I really feel this era of dominance by Merc will have a cloud over it in the future when the truth eventually comes out about its ridiculous performance advantage. This years car in particular stinks of an illegal car but of course it's not until this is proven.

The way the FIA hushed up the Ferrari deal makes me think we may never see what is going on behind the scenes. F1 needs Mercedes to sign up the new deal, so won't risk digging too hard in case they find something.

El_Duderino 09

TCP/IP wrote: »

As I said after the last GP I really feel this era of dominance by Merc will have a cloud over it in the future when the truth eventually comes out about its ridiculous performance advantage. This years car in particular stinks of an illegal car but of course it's not until this is proven.

DAS is already an area like that. And the likely collaboration with RP is another such area.

Last year's ferrari engine was clearly not compliant with the rules. Does that really cast a cloud over all their poll positions and wins? I don't think people look at it that way in reality.

TCP/IP

recyclebin wrote: »

The way the FIA hushed up the Ferrari deal makes me think we may never see what is going on behind the scenes. F1 needs Mercedes to sign up the new deal, so won't risk digging too hard in case they find something.

You make a very good point but at this stage, I would rather see Merc step away as it's plainly obvious they are too big a machine to compete against and how many championships wins will be too much and destroy the sport we love so much.

What happens if they cream the competition in the 2022 season with the new rule changes it will be a disaster for the sport.

mickdw

TCP/IP wrote: »

You make a very good point but at this stage, I would rather see Merc step away as it's plainly obvious they are too big a machine to compete against and how many championships wins will be too much and destroy the sport we love so much.

What happens if they cream the competition in the 2022 season with the new rule changes it will be a disaster for the sport.

What changes were brought in a couple of years back re burning oil - didnt they limit the amount of oil loss over a race to quite a tight amount?
The way mercedes are now smoking, you would have to query those limits.

TCP/IP

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

DAS us already an area like that. And the likely collaboration with RP is another such area.

Last year's ferrari engine was clearly not compliant with the rules. Does that really cast a cloud over all their poll positions and wins? I don't think people look at it that way in reality.

I agree Ferrari's engine last year in certain parts of the season found a loophole outside the intended regulations and that was closed you could see it when they left the garage in a cloud of smoke, what's interesting the 2020 Merc engine has the same smoke at certain points and is certainly doing something similar but perhaps in a way that is not proven yet outside the rules yet.

Sure its plain for all to see that Merc this year with DAS and their new engine is just so far ahead its not even funny anymore.

mickdw

Ya it looks like mercedes knew exactly what ferrari were doing last year and surely had their own version in design to match them - Toto did say that ferrari performance last year forced them to push themselves to match them.

Given the cover up agreement between ferrari and FIA, Mercedes might have just decided to run it and seek similar terms if found out.

namloc1980

Shake up at Ferrari

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-ferrari-announce-technical-team-shake-up-after-poor-start-to-2020.4KXJeL8LAPO4LmEiLwgt8K.html

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

DAS is already an area like that. And the likely collaboration with RP is another such area.

Last year's ferrari engine was clearly not compliant with the rules. Does that really cast a cloud over all their poll positions and wins? I don't think people look at it that way in reality.

Yes according to Red Bull.

Parsnips

Ive been a formula 1 fan for years.. going back to Berger, Hill, Coulthard, Hakkinen etc.
My God... New owners need to do something drastic. its getting worse by theyear. yes we get a few great races every now and again but its really gone to the dogs. As most F1 fans feel...Its not just about the racing but the whole soap opera that goes on in the background and I also love that but there is no doubt about it.. the spectacle is dying a death. I cringe when commentators scream about the battle for 9th & 10th spot. says eveything really.

Im also glad to see Ocon back. Feel he was shafted last year. not a fan of Perez.

Schorpio

TCP/IP wrote: »

You make a very good point but at this stage, I would rather see Merc step away as it's plainly obvious they are too big a machine to compete against and how many championships wins will be too much and destroy the sport we love so much.

What happens if they cream the competition in the 2022 season with the new rule changes it will be a disaster for the sport.

I take your point, and a big part of me would rather they just stepped away too, but I don't think they should be made to leave the sport, just because they were too good at it. I know they have a big budget, but Ferrari have an equally big budget, and look at the mess they are in.