Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

SureYWouldntYa

Indestructable wrote: »

Will Mclaren ever be allowed to be competitive with a Mercedes engine?? It's something that's bothering me, no matter how good their aero is Mercedes surely won't allow them to get ahead. I think it's not good for F1 and I wish they stuck with Honda.

If Red Bull can beat Renault with the same Renault engine, I can't see why McLaren can't beat Mercedes

I don't see Merc doing anything that would stop it either, that's more the sort of thing Ferrari might do, but Merc will be happy once McLaren pony up the cash I'd be thinking

mickdw

Indestructable wrote: »

Will Mclaren ever be allowed to be competitive with a Mercedes engine?? It's something that's bothering me, no matter how good their aero is Mercedes surely won't allow them to get ahead. I think it's not good for F1 and I wish they stuck with Honda.

The mclaren move to mercedes is surely a longterm one with a mercedes race team exit in mind. Thats where they need to be - a works mercedes outfit.

Harika

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

If Red Bull can beat Renault with the same Renault engine, I can't see why McLaren can't beat Mercedes

I don't see Merc doing anything that would stop it either, that's more the sort of thing Ferrari might do, but Merc will be happy once McLaren pony up the cash I'd be thinking

There is a difference between the two of them. When red bull beat Renault, Renault was pulling back from F1 already and later rebuilding the team.
Mercedes has the budget and manpower behind to outsmart every team as shown. Only the engine doesn't explain the six titles in a row. Williams and McLaren should have at least won a race but got a pole.
Like Mercedes is doing for decades it's outspending it's competitors and in the worst case the series dies. DTM x2, ITC, gt1

SureYWouldntYa

Harika wrote: »

There is a difference between the two of them. When red bull beat Renault, Renault was pulling back from F1 already and later rebuilding the team.
Mercedes has the budget and manpower behind to outsmart every team as shown. Only the engine doesn't explain the six titles in a row. Williams and McLaren should have at least won a race but got a pole.
Like Mercedes is doing for decades it's outspending it's competitors and in the worst case the series dies. DTM x2, ITC, gt1

True but that's all different from McLaren being "allowed" to be better then Mercedes

In reality yes all those other factors will mean Mercedes will more than likely be well ahead of McLaren, but engine won't be one of them

Anjobe

Harika wrote: »

There is a difference between the two of them. When red bull beat Renault, Renault was pulling back from F1 already and later rebuilding the team.
Mercedes has the budget and manpower behind to outsmart every team as shown. Only the engine doesn't explain the six titles in a row. Williams and McLaren should have at least won a race but got a pole.
Like Mercedes is doing for decades it's outspending it's competitors and in the worst case the series dies. DTM x2, ITC, gt1

I don’t know where this idea comes from. The amount spent by each team is published every year. Mercedes’ spending was slightly but not significantly higher than Ferrari’s in 2019 (it was the other way round in 2018), and less than 10% higher than Red Bull’s.

pjohnson

McLaren beat Renault last year.

El_Duderino 09

Indestructable wrote: »

Will Mclaren ever be allowed to be competitive with a Mercedes engine?? It's something that's bothering me, no matter how good their aero is Mercedes surely won't allow them to get ahead. I think it's not good for F1 and I wish they stuck with Honda.

I don't think they can do a lot about it. They can control how the team runs the engine to a small extent. But if it was obviously anti competitive then there would be a case to answer.

Each customer team had a dedicated team from the engine supplier. They control the engine throughout the race and they could make them turn the engine down a bit under the guise of maintaining reliability. Running the engine against the recommendation of the supplier means they might waive any ability to compensation if the engine blows up. But there's only so much they can do to top a customer being competitive.

It hasn't arisen yet but it will be interest see a battle between RP and Mercedes. The Mercedes engine team within RP might need RP to turn the engine down for the duration of the battle. But that remains to be seen.

Indestructable

McLaren are the only team that could possibly compete with a Merc engine. RP are a nothing team clearly copying parts.

The Merc engine is phenomenal. It'll take a Merc engine and exceptional aero to compete.


So the Mercedes team call it a day and pass the mantle to McLaren? We've seen that before! It would be quite something.

GarIT

Cool_CM wrote: »

Although a complete **** show, this situation has done wonders for tracks that would have never had the chance to get a look-in for races. Great to see Portugal and "San Marino" back on a calendar. Pity there are no fans this time around, but at least it will go the help prove the point that other purpose built circuits do exist and are suitable for F1 racing as opposed to more "we can turn this city into a track" events.

I'm miles behind replying to this but it's already the best calendar I've ever seen.

The only huge improvements I can think of would be removing Silverstone and adding Brazil

H3llR4iser

GarIT wrote: »

I'm miles behind replying to this but it's already the best calendar I've ever seen.

Well, if anything positive is to be taken out of this pandemic, it's that it got us rid, at least for a season, of the sh1tty tracks built around a shopping district that F1 loves these days. The hope is that some reason prevails and they see nobody misses them. I mean seriously, that horror planned in Vietnam had a roundabout in it. A bloody roundabout.

H3llR4iser

double post

Vic_08

Indestructable wrote: »

Will Mclaren ever be allowed to be competitive with a Mercedes engine?? It's something that's bothering me, no matter how good their aero is Mercedes surely won't allow them to get ahead. I think it's not good for F1 and I wish they stuck with Honda.

This idea that it is impossible to win against a manufacturer as an engine customer primarily comes from Ron Dennis. Along with his proclamations about the Honda being world beating on it's debut and the amazing "Size Zero" McLaren it was also a load of crap.

McLaren were blaming the Merc engine for their poor performance when in the first Hybrid year they had been comprehensively beaten by Williams who had been firmly third rate for years until the Merc Hybrid engine elevated them to top 3 in 2014.

McLaren had also been neck and neck with Force India most of the season, all 3 with Merc engines. It was the McLaren car that was uncompetitive, not being able to beat minnow teams never mind compete with Mercedes, or even Red Bull and Ferrari who had far worse power units than McLaren.

When the Red Bull-Renault relationship soured to the point RB were desperate to ditch the Renault engines both Mercedes and Ferrari firmly blocked RB from getting their power units.

Ferrari were happy to resume supplying Torro Rosso but there was no way Red Bull were going to be supplied by either manufacturer.

The reason wasn't because of money or them not wanting their name on the side of the RB car, it was very obvious they were both scared that RB would beat them on track with their own engines.


As for McLaren sticking with Honda, if Bed Bull haven't been able to catch Mercedes with a Honda engine there is no way McLaren would either, it is a far better engine than it was in 2015-18 but it is still far short of the Merc engine (or the Ferrari cheater spec engine).

PopePalpatine

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Well, if anything positive is to be taken out of this pandemic, it's that it got us rid, at least for a season, of the sh1tty tracks built around a shopping district that F1 loves these days. The hope is that some reason prevails and they see nobody misses them. I mean seriously, that horror planned in Vietnam had a roundabout in it. A bloody roundabout.

Tell me about it, it's a nightmare in the F1 2020 game. I think I used rewind at least 20 times during a 50% distance race.

donspeekinglesh

H3llR4iser wrote: »

A bloody roundabout.

Depends on the roundabout. Seems to work well for Indycar/IMSA when they race at Long Beach.

flazio

Isn't Casino Square a roundabout?
Lowes Hairpin is tighter.

AMKC

GarIT wrote: »

I'm miles behind replying to this but it's already the best calendar I've ever seen.

The only huge improvements I can think of would be removing Silverstone and adding Brazil

Well there is zero hope of that happening anyway. A big loss for Brazil no doubt but they only have there incompetent President and government to blame. I would be delighted if the Brazilian track company could sue there Government over it but I say that's highly unlikely. They could have made money this year for the track instead they are losing out big time. So much for there incompetent president being all about there economy. He just lost big there and lots of Brazillians are dieing because of him.

Harika

Malaysia or Vietnam could come in for November. Outbreaks in Bahrain and Dubai now cast doubts over the final three planned races

Been watching loads of highlights and stuff lately on the old YouTube and I have to say the only way I see Verstappen being world champion is if he has a completely dominant car. He makes too many aggressive moves needlessly. Bahrain 2018 would have been a simple 4th at the very least but he cut across Hamilton and scored 0 instead. It's a bit of a recurring theme.

Inquitus

Deleted User wrote: »

Been watching loads of highlights and stuff lately on the old YouTube and I have to say the only way I see Verstappen being world champion is if he has a completely dominant car. He makes too many aggressive moves needlessly. Bahrain 2018 would have been a simple 4th at the very least but he cut across Hamilton and scored 0 instead. It's a bit of a recurring theme.

He is forced to be aggressive by the lack of pace in the Red Bull compared to the Mercs, if he had an equal car and was chasing the championship and not just results, he would likely change his mindset.

chicorytip

Harika wrote: »

Malaysia or Vietnam could come in for November. Outbreaks in Bahrain and Dubai now cast doubts over the final three planned races

Mondello?? Anyone??

This is it

To me Max is an absolute talent and all things being even he'd walk the WDC, but all things aren't even so it's hard to know how he'll pan out.

Harika

chicorytip wrote: »

Mondello?? Anyone??

Hope they bring snow tyres for Imola and Nürburg. For mondello maybe get some speedboats in November.
To be fair, monsoon tyres should make a comeback for those races.

H3llR4iser

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Depends on the roundabout. Seems to work well for Indycar/IMSA when they race at Long Beach.

Well Long Beach isn't exactly a belter of a track - yet, they don't do a full "lap" of the roundabout like they would have in Hanoi.

flazio wrote: »

Isn't Casino Square a roundabout?
Lowes Hairpin is tighter.

Again, they coast it. Also...will the moaning about Monaco ever stop? It's a much more varied and interesting track than any of the wallops of pure sh1te that were added to the calendar to go to "emerging economies" (read: places where you can sell tonnes of Mercs and Ferraris to "new rich" with questionable money).

Sure, it's tight and overtaking is an issue, but on the same track you have the slowest corner of the season AND a full-throttle, 5/6th gear "chicane" (entry at the swimming pool). There are off camber corners, changes of gradients, blind turns and it's generally considered the most difficult track to drive on.

All the new cr@p - straight, 90 degrees corner, straight, 90 degrees corner, straight. Baku, Sochi, Singapore...sure, there will be lots of DRS-assisted overtaking, yet looking a bit better, most of the races there derive "action" from accidents and safety cars. They are pretty much meaningless, pointless and soulless tracks like the Detroit and Phoenix ones F1 tried out in the late 80s/early 90s - or the dreaded Cesar's Palace parking lot - that drivers universally hated. With the current car designs, DRS and safety cars, even 1989 Phoenix would bring out "exciting" races.

Harika wrote: »

Hope they bring snow tyres for Imola and Nürburg. For mondello maybe get some speedboats in November.
To be fair, monsoon tyres should make a comeback for those races.

Don't know about the Nurburgring, but it pretty much never snows in that part of Italy in October/November. Actually, it hardly snows at all there - but as Murphy's law dictates, might well happen this year. I mean, it's been one of "those years", it makes sense

AMKC

Ò

chicorytip wrote: »

Mondello?? Anyone??

Not a hope. It's too small and not built to FIA standards either now. Can you you imagine the F1 circus coming here do. It would be crazy.

H3llR4iser

AMKC wrote: »

Ò

Not a hope. It's too small and not built to FIA standards either now. Can you you imagine the F1 circus coming here do. It would be crazy.

Quite funny 'though. Also, AFAIK Zandvoort is in a fairly ridiculous place for a modern F1 race - basically a holiday beach village with cr@p all access roads - to the point Red Bull asked to be allowed to use 4x4s on the beach to reach the track. But they did have to do major works to adapt the track to the current standards.

Cork Trucker

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Quite funny 'though. Also, AFAIK Zandvoort is in a fairly ridiculous place for a modern F1 race - basically a holiday beach village with cr@p all access roads - to the point Red Bull asked to be allowed to use 4x4s on the beach to reach the track. But they did have to do major works to adapt the track to the current standards.

F1 is cashing in on the big marketing opportunity in Holland otherwise known as Max Verstappen. Who is the last F1 driver that we can lay claim to? Ralph Firman was English born and raised with an Irish mother/licence. Eddie Irvine’s family received threats when the Irish flag was raised after Argentina 1997, also flown in Canada 1995

H3llR4iser

Cork Trucker wrote: »

F1 is cashing in on the big marketing opportunity in Holland otherwise known as Max Verstappen. Who is the last F1 driver that we can lay claim to? Ralph Firman was English born and raised with an Irish mother/licence. Eddie Irvine’s family received threats when the Irish flag was raised after Argentina 1997, also flown in Canada 1995

True that - and IIRC, these times the Irish flag was used, it was actually a mistake...

Cork Trucker

H3llR4iser wrote: »

True that - and IIRC, these times the Irish flag was used, it was actually a mistake...

Yes the Canadians and Argentines didn’t know the whole ROI/NI thing.

The Irish flag also flew in Melbourne 96 when Irvine finished 3rd

Adamocovic

I know Lando was already a popular driver and heavily active on YouTube before but the quarantine stage of this year has helped increase his popularity incredibly.

His activity online to keep fans entertained during the break, coupled with some great driving since the comeback has done wonders for him. Also his general personality helps too.

Looking at the likes of the comments on F1 and Sky Sports posts it’s clear he’s becoming a fan favorite for a lot of British fans. Really feels like he’s lining up to become the British number one when Lewis eventually (albeit won’t be for some time) leaves the sport.

Of course the likes of Russell, and even Illot or Ticktum may have something to say about it, but feels Lando is in the driving seat.

Have to say with all the new talent making waves on and off the track, and the new rules in the pipeline it’s the most optimistic I’ve felt about the sport in a long time.

Seems well soon be treated to the new era of competition and if the rules have the change that we hope for an even more competitive championship.

flazio

It's a wonder that Irvine didn’t stand under an Ulster flag, I know a Dutch driver in the W series stands under the flag of her Dutch region rather than the Dutch flag.