Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

duploelabs

Hijpo wrote: »

I dont kneel, I dont wear a rainbow during pride week, I dont choose to be female every once in a while. I guess I'm a racist trans phobic homophobe??

What racist laws do white people have to eradicated in order for black people to be allowed the same opportunities as white people so that all the white people that are labelled racist so easily can finally prove they are not racist? Or which race needs to be held back so that black people can get a head start in order to level the playing field?

How many times should he kneel? Is one enough?

When you're in a position where inequality doesn't affect you personally, it's up to you to make a point for those who can't

rock22

I admire Hamilton for raising racism and for highlighting what F1 can do to increase diversity ( which is not always the same thing).

But it appears to me that forcing someone to kneel in order to support American footballers who reacted by kneeling when they were forced or expected to stand for a National Anthem they felt ignored their race is surely counter productive.

LeClerc is not alone in supporting the antiracism message and wearing the T-shirt, but not wanting to kneel. It seems to me that it is better to continue with a protest that all can support rather than make the issue about the gesture of kneeling/ not kneeling.

Also, it takes more than not been a racist in order to increase diversity. Many workplaces and social spaces are perceived as being unwelcoming to certain people. People might have to actively encourage diversity in order to overcome years of exclusion or perceived exclusion.

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

So your conclusion from someone like Leclerc not kneeling is that they are automatically racist, not through any other acts or statements...just from that. Ok, got it, solid logic.

No. I take it for granted that they don't care one way or the other about racism. Which is pretty close to racist and they could well be racist. Bit not kneeling is not sufficient to conclude they're racist. But it is a bit of evidence in that direction.

Not caring about racism is worthy of criticism too.

Hope that clears up the mistaken assumptions in your post above.

El_Duderino 09

Gintonious wrote: »

Not caring about racism and being a racist are poles apart. Probably good to point that one out from the start.

Also, your referencing him and his upbringing, if we use that logic then none of the drivers on the grid should be listened to, none of them have grown up on any "mean streets", Monaco or wherever they are from.

I do take people for their actions, not for the lack of them.

Not caring about racism is not "Poles apart" from being racist. They're pretty pretty close neighbours.

You're right. Most of the drivers grew up privileged and that's why a high proportion of them don't care about racism and don't do the kneel. It's really obvious.

Same applies to the sport itself being mostly white and the fan base. Take Brazil as an example. Brazil has most black peope in any country outside affrica f1 has had Brazilian drivers and how many have been black? None. When you look around at the fans at the race in Brazil, it's not black Brazilians attending, it's the white Brazilians.

F1 is a pretty white sport and that's why the kneel has been such a struggle to get them to care about it. If Lewis didn't have his status in the sport, they almost certainly wouldn't even bother taking seriously his request to do the kneel at the start.

El_Duderino 09

rock22 wrote: »

I admire Hamilton for raising racism and for highlighting what F1 can do to increase diversity ( which is not always the same thing).

But it appears to me that forcing someone to kneel in order to support American footballers who reacted by kneeling when they were forced or expected to stand for a National Anthem they felt ignored their race is surely counter productive.

LeClerc is not alone in supporting the antiracism message and wearing the T-shirt, but not wanting to kneel. It seems to me that it is better to continue with a protest that all can support rather than make the issue about the gesture of kneeling/ not kneeling.

Also, it takes more than not been a racist in order to increase diversity. Many workplaces and social spaces are perceived as being unwelcoming to certain people. People might have to actively encourage diversity in order to overcome years of exclusion or perceived exclusion.

Yeah they could water it down to the point that everyone is happy to go along with it. But sometimes you just have to go ahead and force people to reveal their hand. The ones who reveal that they don't actually care about racism by not kneeling are making a statement which kinda shows why the whole thing is necessary to begin with.

Diversity in f1 is generations away, if it ever happens, as getting into f1 is a class issue to begin with. And racism ultimately becomes a class issue in practice. One step at a time. Acknowledging racism as a problem and caring about fixing it are

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You've said yourself BLM isn't just about police brutality. Taking the knee is for BLM and endorsing their positions.
I love also that part of your argument is "if you don't want hassle just do what people tell you". Nothing about sincerity or actual belief, just be visually submissive and tick the box we tell you to.

I don't think doing the kneel is just about BLM at this stage. It's just about actively opposing racism, or choosing not to actively oppose racism.

That quote is not something I've said and I'll thank you not to make up quotes and attribute them to me. and the sentiment in your made up quote is wrong. I think you reveal your intentuons through your actions. If you sincerely care about racism, you'll do the kneel. If you either don't care about racism or are actively racist, then you will oppose the kneel. It srealky simple.

People who either don't care about racism or are actively racist, come up with all kinds of reasons for their opposition to doing the kneel. When someone's reasons are really bad then you have to look at the most obvious reason for their behaviour. In this case not kneeling is a fairly powerful statement that, at best, you don't care about racism.

El_Duderino 09

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Vettel did kneel unfortunately. To be honest I lost some respect for Vettel for kneeling.

LOL. Not surprising given your posting history, Rodney. But why did Vettel's opposition to racism that cause you to lose respect for him?

pjohnson

The fúck has this turned into a hardcore BLM thread. Is it affecting the drivers standings now?

pyramuid man

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

LOL. Not surprising given your posting history, Rodney. But why did Vettel's opposition to racism that cause you to lose respect for him?

I thought this was a thread about formula 1 and not about politics. All this tit for tat is getting out of hand.

And taking a knee has nothing to do with the racing btw. It is a gesture is support of a cause.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

The fúck has this turned into a hardcore BLM thread. Is it affecting the drivers standings now?

No. It just reveals their position on racism. Anti or ambivalent. There's absolutely no penalty for any of the ones who are ambivalent towards racism.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

No. It just reveals their position on racism. Anti or ambivalent. There's absolutely no penalty for any of the ones who are ambivalent towards racism.

Except it doesn't which has been repeatedly explained to you all last night but that wont stop you banging the drum for a few more pages.

Rodney Bathgate

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

LOL. Not surprising given your posting history, Rodney. But why did Vettel's opposition to racism that cause you to lose respect for him?

You seem to have sobered up a bit, your spelling and logic was all over the place last night.

A person can be against racism and not support the marxist blm political movement. If you can’t see that then you need to have a word with yourself.

I don’t espouse the marxist blm political movement. So either Vettel felt pressured into supporting the marxist blm political movement by kneeling, or he actually supports the marxist blm political movement. Either disappoints me.

But you will continue with your childish claims that not supporting the marxist blm political movement makes you racist. Pathetic but not surprising.

Mitch Connor

Renault protest about RP's car has been upheld.

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1291659220883054593

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1291659505856581632

Doesn't seem like the punishment fitting the crime.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Except it doesn't but that wont stop you banging the drum for a few more pages.

Of course it does. If they don't care about racism, they don't do the kneel. It's so simple. People (yourself included, perhaps?) come up with all kinds of convoluted reasons for their opposition to the kneel or any other anti-racism activism. The reason is not complicated. It exactly what it looks like.

pjohnson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Renault protest about RP's car has been upheld.

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1291659220883054593

Ooooh interesting!


Edit- Follow Up Tweet not so interesting basically no consequence.

El_Duderino 09

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

You seem to have sobered up a bit, your spelling and logic was all over the place last night.

A person can be against racism and not support the marxist blm political movement. If you can’t see that then you need to have a word with yourself.

I don’t espouse the marxist blm political movement. So either Vettel felt pressured into supporting the marxist blm political movement by kneeling, or he actually supports the marxist blm political movement. Either disappoints me.

But you will continue with your childish claims that not supporting the marxist blm political movement makes you racist. Pathetic but not surprising.

You think the only way to do the kneel is to support the Marxist BLM movememt? That's very interesting. I mentioned that people come up with convoluted reasons for their opposition to the kneel and you've demonstrates it there by tacking Marxism onto BLM and binding the BLM with the kneel.

There's no register for BLM. You can do the kneel without being a member of BLM. But it's interesting to see someone go.oit of their way to make an argument for their opposition to an anti-racism gesture.

The drivers PR is managed down to every word they say but f1 marketing knew that anti-racism wouldn't be popular in f1 because of the makeup of its fan base, and they are right.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Ooooh interesting!


Edit- Follow Up Tweet not so interesting basically no consequence.

What parts are they using this weekend then? The copied parts or some other parts? And will there be more investigations by FIA or protests from.other teams about other parts they copied?

Quantum Erasure

Can't wait to see all drivers wearing poppys in a couple months, and all the rainbow badges for pride month...

recyclebin

Mod, please come save this thread!

El_Duderino 09

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Renault protest about RP's car has been upheld.

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1291659220883054593

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/status/1291659505856581632

Doesn't seem like the punishment fitting the crime.

Joke penalty. 15point deduction in exchange for jumping right up the grid and becoming the 2nd/3rd fastest car. Great deal for RP. They should do the same next year if thats the penalty. It's a disgrace, Joe.

Harika

Renault protest decision is in: Racing Point has been fined 400.000 € and gets 15 points deducted. The FIA document about the case is 14 pages. You couldn't make this any more complicated.

Rodney Bathgate

Trying to claim that this kneeling phenomenon isn’t linked to blm is taking the piss. End of story.

ELM327

If they still race in China and the Middle East, then all this "end racism" gestures are just posturing.
All lives matter, not just privileged ones.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Joke penalty. 15point deduction in exchange for jumping right up the grid and becoming the 2nd/3rd fastest car. Great deal for RP. They should do the same next year if thats the penalty. It's a disgrace, Joe.

I reckon that's like jumping the start and getting a 5 second time penalty.
Absoutely worth the cost!!

El_Duderino 09

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Can't wait to see all drivers wearing poppys in a couple months, and all the rainbow badges for pride month...

If you want to see it, campaign for it. At the moment I don't see any pressure on them to do those things.

Harika

Perez has failed his Covid-19 test and Hulkenberg is in the car for the rest of the weekend and I would assume Spain too

El_Duderino 09

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Trying to claim that this kneeling phenomenon isn’t linked to blm is taking the piss. End of story.

They're not inextricably linked. That should be obvious, even to someone opposed to anti-racism.

antodeco

I wonder can other teams now protect against RP for additional races?

The old saying, better to do it and ask for forgiveness, than to get permission in the first place!

El_Duderino 09

Harika wrote: »

Perez has failed his Covid-19 test and Hulkenberg is in the car for the rest of the weekend and I would assume Spain too

Delighted for him. I think everyone was disappointed to see him not start last week. Although I think he's a middling driver, I'd like to see him perform well. And the Tracing Point will surely be the most competitive car he's ever had.

eviltimeban

Be great if he finally got his podium. Even if he never raced in F1 again, he wouldn't have that "record" hanging over him.