Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

El_Duderino 09

ELM327 wrote: »

I reckon that's like jumping the start and getting a 5 second time penalty.
Absoutely worth the cost!!

Yeah very weak penalty. And the question remains on whether thy can keep using the copied parts.

Presumibly Renault will continue to push ahead with other challenges and RB will continue to look for clarity on what is and isn't legal.

Rodney Bathgate

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They're not inextricably linked. That should be obvious, even to someone opposed to anti-racism.

Of course not. :rolleyes:

Another of your moronic posts.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah very weak penalty. And the question remains on whether thy can keep using the copied parts.

Presumibly Renault will continue to push ahead with other challenges and RB will continue to look for clarity on what is and isn't legal.

I presume they can still use them?
Or, if Renault protest other parts will there be further points and fines

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah very weak penalty. And the question remains on whether thy can keep using the copied parts.

Presumibly Renault will continue to push ahead with other challenges and RB will continue to look for clarity on what is and isn't legal.

Will it affect next year though?
Loss of points = loss of prize money!
Yes?
No?

GarIT

I was banned for less, this is getting ridiculous. El Duderino needs to go!


While we're at it Mercedes manufactured the gas chambers but I guess Jews don't matter because they aren't usually black.

Lewis is the most racist of the lot of them and a bully.

ELM327

GarIT wrote: »

I was banned for less, this is getting ridiculous. El Duderino needs to go!


While we're at it Mercedes manufactured the gas chambers but I guess Jews don't matter because they aren't usually black.

Lewis is the most racist of the lot of them and a bully.

For god's sake leave this crap out of the F1 forum.
We get enough of it from Lewis and I'm sick of it.

ELM327

vectra wrote: »

Will it affect next year though?
Loss of points = loss of prize money!
Yes?
No?

It will, if the 15 points knock them down a step in the constructors especially.

pjohnson

Pirelli tyres are less of a shīt show than here at this point.

namloc1980

Racing Point decision is crazy. Yes you can keep driving your illegal car but here's a little slap on the wrist.

muckwarrior

namloc1980 wrote: »

Racing Point decision is crazy. Yes you can keep driving your illegal car but here's a little slap on the wrist.

I thought that too, but then I remembered that this is specifically about the brake ducts (I think?). So does this open the door to protesting all the other parts of the car?

AMKC

Good to see that Nico Hulkingberg will be back in the car again this weekend and hopefully get to race to as well as hopefully getting a podium.
As for the RP thing. I guess that is all the FIA could do. They do not have the power to make them take off the copied parts on there car if they are indeed copied so there is no point in them going there. They have no way to enforce it. It will no doubt hurt RP now and into the future too.

jv2000

AMKC wrote: »

Good to see that Nico Hulkingberg will be back in the car again this weekend and hopefully get to race to as well as hopefully getting a podium.
As for the RP thing. I guess that is all the FIA could do. They do not have the power to make them take off the copied parts on there car if they are indeed copied so there is no point in them going there. They have no way to enforce it. It will no doubt hurt RP now and into the future too.

I am not sure I fully understand how this will affect them this weekend onwards, are we expecting another appeal from Renault this weekend? Seems like they could have capitalized a lot more in the first 4 races if they had a better driver than Stroll and managed to get Hulk out last weekend. I wonder if they had podiums in those races would the points deduction have been bigger?

recyclebin

The floodgates have now opened for Racing Point. More appeals to follow is my guess. The brake ducts probably were not huge in terms in performance hence the low fine and penalty.

quokula

The RP issue doesn't seem so bad when you look at the details.

It's only the brake ducts. Brake ducts were on the list of parts that were allowed to be shared in 2019. Mercedes legally shared them with RP at that time.

For 2020, brake ducts got removed from this list. RP continued using the 2019 ones that were shared legally.

If there are more protests about other parts of the car, and those protests are upheld, they could be in further trouble. But honestly I'm not sure they did anything more than copy as much as they could figure out from observing the Mercedes (in combination with the legally shared parts), which is not against the rules.

pjohnson

And yet Leclerc has two podiums :pac:

skipper_G

The full FIA document re: Renault v Racing Point protest can be found here
https://www.fia.com/news/f1-renault-protest-decision

This is far from over, not only are Racing Point likely to appeal, but watch out for a Renault appeal as well

AMKC

jv2000 wrote: »

I am not sure I fully understand how this will affect them this weekend onwards, are we expecting another appeal from Renault this weekend? Seems like they could have capitalized a lot more in the first 4 races if they had a better driver than Stroll and managed to get Hulk out last weekend. I wonder if they had podiums in those races would the points deduction have been bigger?

I would say if they had got podiums then maybe the points deduction and the fine might have been bigger alright.

PukkaStukka

quokula wrote: »

The RP issue doesn't seem so bad when you look at the details.

It's only the brake ducts. Brake ducts were on the list of parts that were allowed to be shared in 2019. Mercedes legally shared them with RP at that time.

For 2020, brake ducts got removed from this list. RP continued using the 2019 ones that were shared legally.

If there are more protests about other parts of the car, and those protests are upheld, they could be in further trouble. But honestly I'm not sure they did anything more than copy as much as they could figure out from observing the Mercedes (in combination with the legally shared parts), which is not against the rules.

Methinks this story will continue to run for a bit.

mickdw

So in summary, RP bought mercedes brake duct designs for 2019 which was legal. They ran these on front of the car for 2019 but not the rear. All legally.
For 2020, you must design your own ducts but given that they were on the car (front) in 2019 , a revision of those would be fine for 2020.
RP didnt run the reear brake ducts in 2019 but put them on in 2020 and that is the illegal bit.
Its all relatively minor and if this is all they can pin on them when running a mercedes clone, its abit silly

namloc1980

Ferrari have formally appealed the Racing Point decision to the stewards.

Burkie1203

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ferrari have formally appealed the Racing Point decision to the stewards.

https://twitter.com/AshWoody90/status/1291819425570664448?s=19

PukkaStukka

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151168/ferrari-to-appeal-fiaEURTMs-racing-point-brake-duct-ruling

namloc1980

And McLaren have formally appealed also! Love it.....

Jordan 199

The heat is on...

Frank Bullitt

Floodgates are open now.

flazio

How are Mercedes-Benz not in trouble for sharing the design in the first place?

namloc1980

flazio wrote: »

How are Mercedes-Benz not in trouble for sharing the design in the first place?

They shared the info last year when the brake ducts weren't a listed part so that was fine. The brake ducts became a listed part this year.

PukkaStukka

namloc1980 wrote: »

They shared the info last year when the brake ducts weren't a listed part so that was fine. The brake ducts became a listed part this year.

The entire RP car looks like last year's Merc. The whole thing is smelly and that's why the other teams are aggrieved. The FIA allowing them keep the ducts is nuts. Anyone else previously found to running illegal bits has always had to remove them.

namloc1980

PukkaStukka wrote: »

The entire RP car looks like last year's Merc. The whole thing is smelly and that's why the other teams are aggrieved. The FIA allowing them keep the ducts is nuts. Anyone else previously found to running illegal bits has always had to remove them.

It is indeed fishy, but the brake ducts in and of themselves are not illegal and they are not in breach of technical regulations, the issue is how the rear brake ducts were developed. I think that's where the FIA have a bit of a problem.

rock22

mickdw wrote: »

So in summary, RP bought mercedes brake duct designs for 2019 which was legal. They ran these on front of the car for 2019 but not the rear. All legally.
For 2020, you must design your own ducts but given that they were on the car (front) in 2019 , a revision of those would be fine for 2020.
RP didnt run the reear brake ducts in 2019 but put them on in 2020 and that is the illegal bit.
Its all relatively minor and if this is all they can pin on them when running a mercedes clone, its abit silly

I don't think that is a summary of it. According to the FIA document, RP did not use the design in on the 2019 car but used the Mercedes CAD files to design the BD's for the 2020 car.

namloc1980 wrote: »

They shared the info last year when the brake ducts weren't a listed part so that was fine. The brake ducts became a listed part this year.

Mercedes gave RP the actual parts in Jan 2020 even though Rp already had the CAD files. Clearly Mercedes knew then that the parts were not for the 2019 car.