Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

Faugheen

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Verstappen full of praise for Hulkenberg. Anyone fancy a bet on him being considered for the second Red Bull seat in 2021, stranger things have happened.

If their choice is between Albon, Hulk and Vettel there’s only one driver I’d give it to at the moment.

It’s easy to slate Stroll but he has driven very well in the RP this season (on par with Perez in my opinion), so I think today’s performance says a lot more about Hulk.

Hulk always had talent. He could never get the right car or even when he got himself into such good positions, something unfortunate would happen to him.

Brazil 2012 should have been his. The retirement was his fault, but the top teams should have stood up and taken notice of the fact that he matched the McLarens on raw pace that day.

Faugheen

For the record I would be surprised if Hulk gets a podium tomorrow. Being so long out of an F1 car plus the fact tomorrow is actually his first race will be a massive challenge for him.

If he is able to get a podium or even close to it, it should be seen as a massive result. He really needed that race last week though I feel.

Would love to be proven wrong.

Cork Trucker

Faugheen wrote: »

For the record I would be surprised if Hulk gets a podium tomorrow. Being so long out of an F1 car plus the fact tomorrow is actually his first race will be a massive challenge for him.

If he is able to get a podium or even close to it, it should be seen as a massive result. He really needed that race last week though I feel.

Would love to be proven wrong.

Ah come on now, rookies have gotten podiums on their debut races, all he has to do tomorrow is make sure that he stays where he is and job done

Cork Trucker

Faugheen wrote: »

If their choice is between Albon, Hulk and Vettel there’s only one driver I’d give it to at the moment.

It’s easy to slate Stroll but he has driven very well in the RP this season (on par with Perez in my opinion), so I think today’s performance says a lot more about Hulk.

Hulk always had talent. He could never get the right car or even when he got himself into such good positions, something unfortunate would happen to him.

Brazil 2012 should have been his. The retirement was his fault, but the top teams should have stood up and taken notice of the fact that he matched the McLarens on raw pace that day.

I agree on Brazil, he was impatient.

Cork Trucker

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Most likely. Also, if they end up taking some heavier action against RP, my money is on the absurd "team loses points but not the drivers" they've been doing previously.

Essentially a repeat of what happened to McLaren at the very worst.

Faugheen

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Ah come on now, rookies have gotten podiums on their debut races, all he has to do tomorrow is make sure that he stays where he is and job done

Rookies also would have had plenty of testing done before their first races and plenty of long runs.

Hulk was talking last week about the impact the g-forces were having on his neck. He doesn’t seem to be having the same problems this week but a podium will be a massive ask over a race distance.

Don’t get me wrong, I have defended Hulk on here for years and have followed him since his A1GP championship winning days. He has talent that not many on the grid can claim to have. I would love to see him get a podium in his first race in a competitive car that’s capable of it.

chicorytip

H3llR4iser wrote: »

That's precisely the point - these were parts that were "not listed" last year, and are now - it would be reasonable for the FIA to be extra vigilant about them, as any team could claim "ah sorry, we didn't realize".

The fact both Racing Point and the FIA claimed, repeatedly to this point, that "everything was scrutinized and came back legal" is the sticking issue - what they're saying is either patently false, or the scrutinizing wasn't conducted nearly as well as they claim.

The comparisons with Haas/Toro Rosso or whatever are pointless - they are just using some parts that, by regulation, they can buy straight out of the other teams - all under the sunlight and declared. They're not saying "we designed this!" while running Red Bull/Ferrari parts.

Again, I know a lot of people in here have a bit of a hard on for Racing Point as it used to be Jordan, but these days are long gone. Also, if Eddie Jordan pulled a stunt like RP is this year...well, he would've found a way not to get caught and possibly not even arouse suspicion



With possession of the CAD files, no less.



The problem with Brundle is that him getting these things right hinges on the level of prejudice he has about the driver in question. Many times in the past he kept accusing drivers of making mistakes when it was clear a mechanical issue causing an off - his favourite "victims" having been Vettel, Grosjean and most of all, Rosberg. One would expect better from him.

I think it's unfair to label him prejudiced against particular drivers. I have never detected that from his comments. What is clear is that he is a huge fan of Hamilton, in particular, and to a lesser degree Sainz and when Lewis gets beaten his disappointment is obvious in his tone. I don't mind that particularly. Most journalists and commentators have their own personal favourites and are not totally impartial, just fans like the rest of us.

Man with broke phone

Faugheen wrote: »

If their choice is between Albon, Hulk and Vettel there’s only one driver I’d give it to at the moment.

It’s easy to slate Stroll but he has driven very well in the RP this season (on par with Perez in my opinion), so I think today’s performance says a lot more about Hulk.

Hulk always had talent. He could never get the right car or even when he got himself into such good positions, something unfortunate would happen to him.

Brazil 2012 should have been his. The retirement was his fault, but the top teams should have stood up and taken notice of the fact that he matched the McLarens on raw pace that day.

Did Stroll qualify 400s of a second slower than a fella who is standing in for Perez today? A fella deemed to tall and big to race in the top teams. A fella who never got a podium. A fella who hasnt raced in these new neckbreaker cars all that often.

Infoanon

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Ah come on now, rookies have gotten podiums on their debut races, all he has to do tomorrow is make sure that he stays where he is and job done

That a very short list - helped by being in the front running car.

A podium is unlikely tomorrow given the race pace of Mercedes,Red Bull and Renault

Harika

Infoanon wrote: »

That a very short list - helped by being in the front running car.

A podium is unlikely tomorrow given the race pace of Mercedes,Red Bull and Renault

Red Bull are moving backwards at the moment, their sister team is now battling them in qualifying. Renault is gradually improving, Fernando will love that.
Anyways before red bull worries too much about their second driver they need to get their aero department in order, else no fight for the championship.

Faugheen

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Did Stroll qualify 400s of a second slower than a fella who is standing in for Perez today? A fella deemed to tall and big to race in the top teams. A fella who never got a podium. A fella who hasnt raced in these new neckbreaker cars all that often.

So are you saying Stroll is sh*t as opposed to Hulk being good?

I was saying this result says more about Hulk and how good a driver he is, rather than Stroll being the opposite. Stroll has been no worse than Perez this season.

muckwarrior

Faugheen wrote: »

So are you saying Stroll is sh*t as opposed to Hulk being good?

I was saying this result says more about Hulk and how good a driver he is, rather than Stroll being the opposite. Stroll has been no worse than Perez this season.

Hulk and Perez are average drivers. They're good, but not special. Stroll beat Perez in Hungary, which was probably his best ever performance, but beating an average team mate once in your F1 career is hardly something to brag about.

Hulk is just showing how good the RP car is and what a decent driver can do with it. It may well be the second fastest car on the grid, but they just don't have someone like Verstappen to get the podiums.

eviltimeban

Remember that time Jody Schekter commentated on a qualifying session?

I get annoyed by "Crofty" as well but he does know his stuff, it's just his style I don't like. His voice is like a cheesy nightclub DJ and he laughs far too often.

The Sky show is often overwhelming - there's so much content and pieces to it, you'd be hours watching it. I just don't have time for that anymore, long gone are the lazy Sundays lounging around all afternoon and not getting dressed till it was over! Nowadays I just tape the race and watch it later that evening (mostly so I can fast forward the middle if nothing is happening).

McFly85

A great qualifying result for Hulk but I think a podium will be beyond him today, I can see Verstappen getting into 3rd relatively quickly. Would need a disaster from RB/Merc for any chance of it.

I think a solid race and points finish would be excellent for someone who hasn’t raced in so long, and will do no harm for his profile if a team are looking for a driver next season(I personally think he’d be the perfect No. 2 for Max)

H3llR4iser

The RP is indeed the second fastest car on the grid, the team simply don't have the engineering "power" to fully understand it and set it up properly in the span of a race week end - they kinda nailed it in Budapest, but on both the double headers on the same track so far, they performed much better in the second week end. That's not a coincidence.

That said, I don't really share Crofty's "what's gonna happen behind Mercedes!" enthusiasm for today, for one simple reason - the Red Bull has much stronger race pace compared to where they are in qualifying, clearly visible not only in Verstappen's result but also Albon's comebacks through the field. So I'm afraid, unless Max hits trouble, it's gonna be 4th for Hulk once again

El_Duderino 09

Another embarrassing weekend for Vettel. Out-qualified by a big margin, spun on the first lap again, out paced all weekend. His teammate can bring the car to fourth again, so it has pace IF Vettel could manage it. He needs a big one next weekend.

Does anyone think he's as fast as LeClerc anymore?

Andrew76

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Another embarrassing weekend for Vettel. Out-qualified by a big margin, spun on the first lap again, out paced all weekend. His teammate can bring the car to fourth again, so it has pace IF Vettel could manage it. He needs a big one next weekend.

Does anyone think he's as fast as LeClerc anymore?

Probably not but I’d imagine his car isn’t as fast as LeClerc’s either. Feels similar to how Sainz is getting overshadowed by Norris. The team will still want you to score points etc but you won’t be first to get any new parts on the car.

murphyebass

Just had a chance to watch this.

Bottas ****ed over by his team.

Hamilton is a seriously sore loser.

Great racing from Max. And to a lesser extent his teammate bombing through the outside move after move.

Charles is fast as fook in a rubbish Ferrari.

And Vettel spins..... AGAIN. Lol.

Good race in general though. Roll on Barcelona.

SureYWouldntYa

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Another embarrassing weekend for Vettel. Out-qualified by a big margin, spun on the first lap again, out paced all weekend. His teammate can bring the car to fourth again, so it has pace IF Vettel could manage it. He needs a big one next weekend.

Does anyone think he's as fast as LeClerc anymore?

He's talked a lot about not having confidence in the car

Silverstone is one of those tracks where you need to commit at most of the high speed corners feeding into the next part to be putting a lap together

Maybe in the RB 2010-13 and the better Ferrari's he had confidence so always pushed to the limit, but without the confidence to push and be on the limit he isn't getting what he should be

Or maybe his confidence in general is just shot after losing the two title races in 17/18, being shown up at times by a near rookie teammate in 19, and dropped in 20

El_Duderino 09

Andrew76 wrote: »

Probably not but I’d imagine his car isn’t as fast as LeClerc’s either. Feels similar to how Sainz is getting overshadowed by Norris. The team will still want you to score points etc but you won’t be first to get any new parts on the car.

Agree he's probably not ans fast as LeClerc.

What are you basing that on? Is there's any evidence ferrari as slowing him down or only giving upgrades to LeClerc or something?

PopePalpatine

I don't have much hope for next week as they're using the same C1/2/3 compounds as last week.

SureYWouldntYa

If the temperatures are very high then that might help stop Merc dominance whatever the tyre situation

I won't even ask about the chance of rain in mid August in Spain....

murphyebass

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

If the temperatures are very high then that might help stop Merc dominance whatever the tyre situation

I won't even ask about the chance of rain in mid August in Spain....

Was it Crofty that said they need under track heating? Lol. One of them did.

Be great if they can start to dial in Albons car so he can keep pace with Max. Seemingly it’s the same car but hmmm I don’t know.

Edit.. and I know Max is fast but he can’t be that much faster if it was the exact same car. Look at bottas and hamilton today. Bottas was every bit his equal if not superior had been managed better by the team.

SureYWouldntYa

murphyebass wrote: »

Was it Crofty that said they need under track heating? Lol. One of them did.

Be great if they can start to dial in Albons car so he can keep pace with Max. Seemingly it’s the same car but hmmm I don’t know.

Edit.. and I know Max is fast but he can’t be that much faster if it was the exact same car. Look at bottas and hamilton today. Bottas was every bit his equal if not superior had been managed better by the team.

Better than Bernie Ecclestons idea of using water sprinkers on the track to make interesting races, maybe...

Because of poor qualifying Albon would have been constantly stuck in traffic, affecting his pace relative to Max at the front able to always go at this own pace. Albon when he got free was quick at stages, he got a fastest lap 15/20 or so from the end, he just needs to start doing it on the Saturday to be a proper asset to Max at the front

Burkie1203

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

If the temperatures are very high then that might help stop Merc dominance whatever the tyre situation

I won't even ask about the chance of rain in mid August in Spain....

30 degrees or so all week. No rain forecast. Are the tyre compounds already selected?

quokula

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

He's talked a lot about not having confidence in the car

Silverstone is one of those tracks where you need to commit at most of the high speed corners feeding into the next part to be putting a lap together

Maybe in the RB 2010-13 and the better Ferrari's he had confidence so always pushed to the limit, but without the confidence to push and be on the limit he isn't getting what he should be

Or maybe his confidence in general is just shot after losing the two title races in 17/18, being shown up at times by a near rookie teammate in 19, and dropped in 20

In fairness he comfortably beat Leclerc two races ago, and was ahead of him in the race before that until Leclerc ran into the back of him and took them both out of the race.

He was on the back foot at Silverstone since his car spent most of practice for the first weekend stuck in the garage with mechanical problems and he never really recovered.

If you read some of his post race comments it's clear he's totally lost confidence in Ferrari management after more comically bad strategy calls, in addition to having no confidence in the car. It's pretty obvious they've been giving him unfavourable strategies and it wouldn't be at all surprising if Leclerc is getting updated parts first, and will certainly be getting more attention in setup development.

People have extremely short memories. Vettel drove the wheels off the Ferrari multiple times in the last few years years to mount championship challenges that the car had no right to be involved in against the extreme dominance of the Mercedes.

And the last time the sport had something approaching similarly performant cars across multiple top teams before this dire hybrid formula, he utterly dominated the sport in a car that was never good enough for his team mate to get up into second in the WDC. That says a lot.

And it's not that he was just good in the extremely grippy Red Bull. Go back a little further and you can see his debut for BMW where he turned up for practice as a teenager and outpaced the race drivers, before joining Toro Rosso and beating the actual Red Bulls race in race out, and even winning a wet race in what was effectively still a rebranded Minardi at the time, beating Hamilton in the all conquering McLaren of the day.

Ferrari have utterly failed him. Like Alonso before him. Like Prost and Mansell in before that. Outside of the era where Schumacher dragged them to greatness, you have to go a very long way back to find the last time Ferrari have had the car or the team structure in place to support their drivers in mounting a credible championship challenge, despite their historic name allowing them to lure some of the all time great drivers to the team.

murphyebass

murphyebass wrote: »

Was it Crofty that said they need under track heating? Lol. One of them did.

Be great if they can start to dial in Albons car so he can keep pace with Max. Seemingly it’s the same car but hmmm I don’t know.

Edit.. and I know Max is fast but he can’t be that much faster if it was the exact same car. Look at bottas and hamilton today. Bottas was every bit his equal if not superior had been managed better by the team.

It seems counter-intuitive but at the top level there can be tipping points where a tiny difference leads to a big difference. Watched a video of how the high-rake the Red Bulls use is very sensitive to changes and from corner to corner. Verstappen seems to be able to drive it, I assume Hamilton could and possibly Vettel. When you see the difference between him and Webber when the car was more on the edge then I think he'd be ok with it. Not seen enough of the rest of the drivers at the top level to make too much judgement.

tipp_tipp_tipp

quokula wrote: »

People have extremely short memories. Vettel drove the wheels off the Ferrari multiple times in the last few years years to mount championship challenges that the car had no right to be involved in against the extreme dominance of the Mercedes.

The 2018 ferrari was a great car and capable of winning the championship. Can't blame Ferrari for his stupid crash at Germany and countless spins in the subsequent races.

quokula wrote: »

And it's not that he was just good in the extremely grippy Red Bull. Go back a little further and you can see his debut for BMW where he turned up for practice as a teenager and outpaced the race drivers, before joining Toro Rosso and beating the actual Red Bulls race in race out, and even winning a wet race in what was effectively still a rebranded Minardi at the time, beating Hamilton in the all conquering McLaren of the day.

He was out qualified by Heidfeld in his only race for BMW. The Toro Rosso in 2008 was most certainly not a Minardi. It was essentially the same chassis as the red bull car.

quokula wrote: »

Ferrari have utterly failed him. Like Alonso before him. Like Prost and Mansell in before that. Outside of the era where Schumacher dragged them to greatness, you have to go a very long way back to find the last time Ferrari have had the car or the team structure in place to support their drivers in mounting a credible championship challenge, despite their historic name allowing them to lure some of the all time great drivers to the team.

I see it the other way around in this case. I agree Ferrari should be producing better cars. However he is the second best paid driver in the sport, and for the money he is being paid it's not unreasonable to expect consistent strong performances. I feel he has left Ferrari down in recent seasons with his silly spins/incidents. Ferrari have found their future star in LeClerc, and are doing the right thing in showing Vettel the door. I door agree with you that vettel has been super quick in the past and I hope we see that side to him again with a new team, but I have my doubts at this stage. I think he's finished.

GarIT

murphyebass wrote: »

And Vettel spins..... AGAIN. Lol.

7 or 8 times in two seasons. He really needs to get the boot, even if they have to get Kubica or Hartley in to finish the season.

Charlie-Bravo

GarIT wrote: »

7 or 8 times in two seasons. He really needs to get the boot, even if they have to get Kubica or Hartley in to finish the season.

Or Hulkenberg!