All's not well in FG.

emo72

are they counting a private house that a landlord rents to HAP as a new build?

jimmycrackcorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

As I said before, I don't think FG nor FF are equipped for more than two terms. The wheels start to come off. I don't know if it's the nature of their political game of their lack of long view but it's like the old story of the bulls:

.

The voting public is to blame because we've become a country of whingers and nimbys. It's almost impossible to get anything long term done.

We'd actually be better off with a Singapore style government.

Plumbthedepths

emo72 wrote: »

are they counting a private house that a landlord rents to HAP as a new build?

Even the article I linked couldn't be sure of the figures being given by Murphy.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You suggested I wouldn't give FG credit for turning the tanker around. The homeless crisis is getting worse, children on waiting lists getting worse but you feel FG deserve credit, are you mad?

You produced a link from Factfind which set out the exact figures in relation to home building, yet you failed to contrast it with where we were a few short years ago.

Yes, there is a homeless crisis, but the current government have now nearly got house building back up to the required rate, which is the only way to solve the problem in the long run.

Yes, there are children on waiting lists getting worse, but what is the children’s hospital that you keep criticising for? The same children’s hospital that Fianna Fáil spent a decade dithering over and which should be here to solve that problem.

Like I have said elsewhere, this government haven’t done a brilliant job, but they haven’t done a bad job either, and a lot of longer-term solutions are being put in place.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

You produced a link from Factfind which set out the exact figures in relation to home building, yet you failed to contrast it with where we were a few short years ago.

Yes, there is a homeless crisis, but the current government have now nearly got house building back up to the required rate, which is the only way to solve the problem in the long run.

Yes, there are children on waiting lists getting worse, but what is the children’s hospital that you keep criticising for? The same children’s hospital that Fianna Fáil spent a decade dithering over and which should be here to solve that problem.

Like I have said elsewhere, this government haven’t done a brilliant job, but they haven’t done a bad job either, and a lot of longer-term solutions are being put in place.

Actually Factfind couldn't be certain of the figures Murphy is using . My only criticism of the childrens hospital is the outrageous cost although tbh the location is ridiculous aswell but it's a moot point now,but then again FG seem to fairly inept at handling tax payers money.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

You produced a link from Factfind which set out the exact figures in relation to home building,

Where are these exact figures?

Think you missed that point of the actual article tbh.

Plumbthedepths

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Where are these exact figures?

Think you missed that point of the actual article tbh.

I doubt he missed it tbh, just choose to ignore the conclusion of the piece.

Plumbthedepths

I started a thread about this but appropriate for here. Another potential expensive mess for the taxpayer. I also see the siteserv enquiry is expected to cost the taxpayer 30 million when it concludes.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/data-commissioner-issues-enforcement-notice-in-respect-of-public-services-card-968977.html


https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/siteserv-inquiry-to-face-further-delay-as-costs-hit-6-7m-38762524.html

McMurphy

I see the siteserv inquiry has gone way over what was initially expected, both on time and in millions of euro.

Good old Denis and FG led Govts.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

FF have completed more than 2 terms on numerous occasions so I don’t think that view is credible.

As for criticising a government for planning for only one term, it’s simply ridiculous. All governments have implemented long term plans, such as Project Ireland 2040. Other than long term planning what do you expect? A government introducing a programme for government for the next 30 years?

And how did that work out, credibly?

I'm explaining the flaw I see with the FF/FG party. 'What do you expect?' has us where we are, I for one expect better. The parties being so similar and all claiming to have similar concerns, surely they can come to some agreement, especially now, on policy the other won't dismantle when it's their turn?

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

He’s right. What have these singers and actors done for the homeless?

They have you talking about it. So win.
It's about drawing attention.

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

And how did that work out, credibly?

I'm explaining the flaw I see with the FF/FG party. 'What do you expect?' has us where we are, I for one expect better. The parties being so similar and all claiming to have similar concerns, surely they can come to some agreement, especially now, on policy the other won't dismantle when it's their turn?

The electorate returned them to government. That’s how it worked out.

Broadly speaking the parties have not dismantled each other’s programmes on assuming power.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The electorate returned them to government. That’s how it worked out.

Broadly speaking the parties have not dismantled each other’s programmes on assuming power.

The trouble is current policies are not working and in the most making issues worse. When it's FF turn to officially be back in government it'll be swapping FG pals for FF pals. The only hope is FF are builders, so we may see some social and affordable builds. I'd rather my taxes going to that than vulture funds.
I think it'll be a FF, with a FG jnr. government as I can't see decent people siding with FF and I'd be very disappointed in any who did personally.

SafeSurfer

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The trouble is current policies are not working and in the most making issues worse. When it's FF turn to officially be back in government it'll be swapping FG pals for FF pals. The only hope is FF are builders, so we may see some social and affordable builds. I'd rather my taxes going to that than vulture funds.
I think it'll be a FF, with a FG jnr. government as I can't see decent people siding with FF and I'd be very disappointed in any who did personally.

“Decent” people support all sorts of parties for all sorts of reasons.

James Brown

SafeSurfer wrote: »

“Decent” people support all sorts of parties for all sorts of reasons.

True dat.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The trouble is current policies are not working and in the most making issues worse.

Record employment.
Highest social welfare rates in Europe.
Record-breaking surplus.
Government debt falling sharply as a percentage of GDP/GNI.
House-building finally increasing.

Yes, current policies are not working:rolleyes:. Now, if you said climate change was the number one issue, I would agree with you.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

When it's FF turn to officially be back in government it'll be swapping FG pals for FF pals. The only hope is FF are builders, so we may see some social and affordable builds. I'd rather my taxes going to that than vulture funds.
I think it'll be a FF, with a FG jnr. government as I can't see decent people siding with FF and I'd be very disappointed in any who did personally.

Isn't it the FF-led council in Dun Laoghaire who is handing taxpayer's money to vulture funds?

On FF more generally, I agree that they would be more likely to give money and contracts to Healy-Rae types.

What do you mean "decent people" siding with FF?

Plumbthedepths

This government does like breaking records, record levels of homeless, record levels of hospital waiting lists.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

This government does like breaking records, record levels of homeless, record levels of hospital waiting lists.

The claim made was that they were "in the most" making things worse.

Yes, there are problems with homelessness, but we are getting close to the required build rate. Homelessness cannot be solved overnight, and from your own links, the Central Bank says that we are building 23,000 homes this year. Get it up to 25,000 or a little more for four or five years, then the problem will be solvable.

Yes, there are problems with the health service, and one of the biggest - child waiting lists - is what the new children's hospital is being built for.

These are the policies in place, they will take time to deliver, but the policies are actually in place. They will deliver in the same way that sorting the finances and creating employment worked, they need time.

Where there is a real issue, and not just a populist soundbite, is with climate change. The failure to increase carbon taxes, the failure to introduce water charges, the failure to ban diesel cars from cities, the failure to set ambitious targets for reducing greenhouse gases, the failure to deliver more ambitious public transport (they are doing some), that is where this government has performed badly.

You can follow the foghorn politicians and their Pied Piper ways, or you can apply some intellect and look at the real long-term issue - climate change - and get worried about our future.

tom1ie

blanch152 wrote: »

The claim made was that they were "in the most" making things worse.

Yes, there are problems with homelessness, but we are getting close to the required build rate. Homelessness cannot be solved overnight, and from your own links, the Central Bank says that we are building 23,000 homes this year. Get it up to 25,000 or a little more for four or five years, then the problem will be solvable.

Yes, there are problems with the health service, and one of the biggest - child waiting lists - is what the new children's hospital is being built for.

These are the policies in place, they will take time to deliver, but the policies are actually in place. They will deliver in the same way that sorting the finances and creating employment worked, they need time.

Where there is a real issue, and not just a populist soundbite, is with climate change. The failure to increase carbon taxes, the failure to introduce water charges, the failure to ban diesel cars from cities, the failure to set ambitious targets for reducing greenhouse gases, the failure to deliver more ambitious public transport (they are doing some), that is where this government has performed badly.

You can follow the foghorn politicians and their Pied Piper ways, or you can apply some intellect and look at the real long-term issue - climate change - and get worried about our future.

Just wondering what pt projects fg have delivered? Genuine question.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

The claim made was that they were "in the most" making things worse.

Yes, there are problems with homelessness, but we are getting close to the required build rate. Homelessness cannot be solved overnight, and from your own links, the Central Bank says that we are building 23,000 homes this year. Get it up to 25,000 or a little more for four or five years, then the problem will be solvable.

Yes, there are problems with the health service, and one of the biggest - child waiting lists - is what the new children's hospital is being built for.

These are the policies in place, they will take time to deliver, but the policies are actually in place. They will deliver in the same way that sorting the finances and creating employment worked, they need time.

Where there is a real issue, and not just a populist soundbite, is with climate change. The failure to increase carbon taxes, the failure to introduce water charges, the failure to ban diesel cars from cities, the failure to set ambitious targets for reducing greenhouse gases, the failure to deliver more ambitious public transport (they are doing some), that is where this government has performed badly.

You can follow the foghorn politicians and their Pied Piper ways, or you can apply some intellect and look at the real long-term issue - climate change - and get worried about our future.

Would you go away with your sensible posts. That’s not what some want!

It would be interested to know what procedure those on waiting lists need.
It would also be interesting to know the circumstances of all those classed as homeless. I’m astounded by the number of homeless charities seeking donations at the mo.

Plumbthedepths

blanch152 wrote: »

The claim made was that they were "in the most" making things worse.

Yes, there are problems with homelessness, but we are getting close to the required build rate. Homelessness cannot be solved overnight, and from your own links, the Central Bank says that we are building 23,000 homes this year. Get it up to 25,000 or a little more for four or five years, then the problem will be solvable.

Yes, there are problems with the health service, and one of the biggest - child waiting lists - is what the new children's hospital is being built for.

These are the policies in place, they will take time to deliver, but the policies are actually in place. They will deliver in the same way that sorting the finances and creating employment worked, they need time.

Where there is a real issue, and not just a populist soundbite, is with climate change. The failure to increase carbon taxes, the failure to introduce water charges, the failure to ban diesel cars from cities, the failure to set ambitious targets for reducing greenhouse gases, the failure to deliver more ambitious public transport (they are doing some), that is where this government has performed badly.

You can follow the foghorn politicians and their Pied Piper ways, or you can apply some intellect and look at the real long-term issue - climate change - and get worried about our future.

Your defence of FG is amusing as always.

riddles

The real issue is no one wants their own personal situation to change but will heartily recommend wide spread change around them. The problems are long in the making and would take a long time to resolve - our political system is, was and always will be based on buying time.

This is why there is general frustration mixed with apathy. Change is driven here largely by external factors and predominantly our ability to borrow more money to waste. When this comes to an end, the party is over and change is a given.

https://commodity.com/debt-clock/ireland/

James Brown

I cannot reconcile the FG cheerleading with the record breaking crises.
Breaking records for homelessness and a growing housing crisis not to mention health, a questionable track record on policing policing and massive over runs on tax funded projects can not be explained away by fudging 'new builds' by private concerns for the private market, out of reach for many, often on publicly owned land as any kind of a win.

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I cannot reconcile the FG cheerleading with the record breaking crises.
Breaking records for homelessness and a growing housing crisis not to mention health, a questionable track record on policing policing and massive over runs on tax funded projects can not be explained away by fudging 'new builds' by private concerns for the private market, out of reach for many, often on publicly owned land as any kind of a win.

Not much of this is wholly related to FG though.
Would having FF in government have made any difference? FF, the party of the builders, the horse trade, landlords and pensioners. I don't think so.


If people just got jobs and paid for housing instead of whining for free forever homes beside mummy there would be much less of a "crisis" in housing.

blanch152

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your defence of FG is amusing as always.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I cannot reconcile the FG cheerleading with the record breaking crises.
Breaking records for homelessness and a growing housing crisis not to mention health, a questionable track record on policing policing and massive over runs on tax funded projects can not be explained away by fudging 'new builds' by private concerns for the private market, out of reach for many, often on publicly owned land as any kind of a win.

Nobody is cheerleading Fine Gael. Certainly my post can't be taking as doing so, given the significant criticism of the government's failure to start addressing climate change.

Now, I am not like the foghorn politicians or the unrealistic "solve-it-all-today" posters, in that I expect climate change to be fixed tomorrow, but the last two budgets have not done anywhere near enough in respect of climate change.

Child waiting lists are on the way to being fixed with the new hospital, homelessness is on the way to being fixed, so long as the current building rate is maintained for four or five years, so time to move on to the most important problem of our time.

What you two don't seem to understand is that there is a time-lag between policy decisions/changes and outcomes. Eoghan Murphy has put in place measures for higher density, faster planning and more local authority building. These are working through the system and have started to deliver results and will deliver more results in time. However, the same policy changes have not been put in place to deal with climate change.

blanch152

tom1ie wrote: »

Just wondering what pt projects fg have delivered? Genuine question.

I said they are doing some - BusConnects and Metrolink being the two obvious current projects, I did not say that they had delivered.

Apart from Luas to Broombridge, which as a Dublin 15 resident I use a bit, they haven't delivered much.

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Not much of this is wholly related to FG though.
Would having FF in government have made any difference? FF, the party of the builders, the horse trade, landlords and pensioners. I don't think so.


If people just got jobs and paid for housing instead of whining for free forever homes beside mummy there would be much less of a "crisis" in housing.

It's 100% related to FG.
Probably not.

You don't seem to be very well informed.
If a working tax payer can't afford rent they should not be whinging, they should be out knocking on their Councillor and TD's door IMO.
What do you say to people working suffering under the housing crisis?

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Nobody is cheerleading Fine Gael. Certainly my post can't be taking as doing so, given the significant criticism of the government's failure to start addressing climate change.

Now, I am not like the foghorn politicians or the unrealistic "solve-it-all-today" posters, in that I expect climate change to be fixed tomorrow, but the last two budgets have not done anywhere near enough in respect of climate change.

Child waiting lists are on the way to being fixed with the new hospital, homelessness is on the way to being fixed, so long as the current building rate is maintained for four or five years, so time to move on to the most important problem of our time.

What you two don't seem to understand is that there is a time-lag between policy decisions/changes and outcomes. Eoghan Murphy has put in place measures for higher density, faster planning and more local authority building. These are working through the system and have started to deliver results and will deliver more results in time. However, the same policy changes have not been put in place to deal with climate change.

Every criticism of Fine Gael is Margret Cash or someone else's fault.
Name one 'solve it today' politician or poster. You go back to this fantasy as a basis for your deflections. Stating FG policy is making matters worse does not equate to 'solve it today', mind they could start today.

Sheer fantasy Blanch. How is more housing at prices out of many tax payers reach helping?

Here you are *not* defending Fine Gael. With a mention of climate change for the legitimacy

Not to worry, they'll do alright next election I'm sure.

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's 100% related to FG.
Probably not.

You don't seem to be very well informed.
If a working tax payer can't afford rent they should not be whinging, they should be out knocking on their Councillor and TD's door IMO.
What do you say to people working suffering under the housing crisis?

Not very well informed?
Riiight


If a working tax payer can't afford rent they should relocate or retrain. Or both.
There's no housing crisis. There's an entitlement crisis of people who think earning 10 quid an hour entitles them to live in the centre of the city... or that having 5 kids gets them a free gaff beside mum

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Not very well informed?
Riiight

Only way I can polietly account for this tired rethoric...

If people just got jobs and paid for housing instead of whining for free forever homes beside mummy there would be much less of a "crisis" in housing.

ELM327 wrote: »

If a working tax payer can't afford rent they should relocate or retrain. Or both.
There's no housing crisis. There's an entitlement crisis of people who think earning 10 quid an hour entitles them to live in the centre of the city... or that having 5 kids gets them a free gaff beside mum

Ah, I'm right. Let's just say, myself, Leo, Eoghan, FG and every political party and independent politician in the land agree to differ
The rest is rabbit hole 'let them eat cake' shyte. Despite alleged machinations in the direction of solving the crisis I'd guess your view is the behind closed doors Fine Gael view, based on current policy any way.