All's not well in FG.

ELM327

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

E voting machines -50 million

Port tunnel- 800 million when was supposed to be 400 million.

100 million wasted on mater hospital plans for the children’s hospital.

That’s off the top of my head.

Fianna Fáil have some brass neck.

50 million? That's less than 1 day of the SW budget. (€20bn/365days=€54.8m per DAY)



Port Tunnel has enabled commerce and quicker travel, declogging the streets of trucks. There was never a published CBA but some googling found this


100million wasted on mater hospital? What? I assume this was for some sort of pre works survey or something? Anyway it's less than 2 days of social welfare payout budget. Hardly a major issue.


The main issue in this day and age is the excessive SW budget of 20bn. Of that 20bn, 8bn goes on pensions. Unsustainable. Same as HAP. Unsustainable.

Plumbthedepths

ELM327 wrote: »

He'll vote for the hurlers from the ditches and leave the issue of national governance and fiscal prudence to those that know better.

Which is who exactly? All evidence to date shows neither FF or FG are capable of managing our finances correctly.
FF ....crashed the economy although Lenehen make 2 thirds of the required adjustment before Kenny and co got the reins.
FG .....already mentioned the runaway mess that is the NCH. The NBP that injects almost 3 billion euro of taxpayer money for infrastructure the state will not own.
So please name a party that can exercise fiscal prudence.

_Kaiser_

GreenandRed wrote: »

Why do you think he's worse than Leo?

Because he's been known to hang out with people like the late Peter Sutherland and the ultra secretive Bilderberg crowd. Neither of whose views and policies are ones we'd want to see here.

The one bonus of having Leo in charge (using that term loosely), is the damage he's been able to do is limited. As bad as his inaction on and ignoring of key issues has been, Coveney would be far more destructive in my opinion.

Idbatterim

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Which is who exactly? All evidence to date shows neither FF or FG are capable of managing our finances correctly.
FF ....crashed the economy although Lenehen make 2 thirds of the required adjustment before Kenny and co got the reins.
FG .....already mentioned the runaway mess that is the NCH. The NBP that injects almost 3 billion euro of taxpayer money for infrastructure the state will not own.
So please name a party that can exercise fiscal prudence.

there is very limited sympathy with FF and the bail out, the global recession etc. This next crash that FG are going to preside over, entirely home grown!

ELM327

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'm up for a laugh, who would that be now?

"Sure I crash the car and blame you, but those lads have never even driven it, so give me the keys again"

Well lets eliminate some options with logic and see whos left shall we?


AAA/PBP/Independant alliance: Populist nonsense, non supported and costed ideas
Sinn Fein: No one will go into coalition with them and they will never get enough votes alone. Not withstanding, their attitude to corporate tax means they will bankrupt the country if they ever do get in.


Social Democrats and their ilk: Same as AAA


Renua: no one gets in running on anti choice, given that 2 in 3 voted pro choice.


Labour: Decimated over the past 10 years, no longer relevant given they have been "out leftyed" by the loony left


Other independents: Cannot form government as standalone independents, no cohesion


Who is left: FF or FG. FF caused the crisis in Ireland (separate to the global crisis)....
And who is left....


FG!

Snow Garden

GreenandRed wrote: »

Why do you think he's worse than Leo?

He has been found wanting in every tough interview or debate I have ever heard. He hasn't achieved much in any portfolio.
He doesn't seem to have much depth. He inherited his seat.

BattleCorp

ELM327 wrote: »

Well lets eliminate some options with logic and see whos left shall we?


AAA/PBP/Independant alliance: Populist nonsense, non supported and costed ideas
Sinn Fein: No one will go into coalition with them and they will never get enough votes alone. Not withstanding, their attitude to corporate tax means they will bankrupt the country if they ever do get in.


Social Democrats and their ilk: Same as AAA


Renua: no one gets in running on anti choice, given that 2 in 3 voted pro choice.


Labour: Decimated over the past 10 years, no longer relevant given they have been "out leftyed" by the loony left


Other independents: Cannot form government as standalone independents, no cohesion


Who is left: FF or FG. FF caused the crisis in Ireland (separate to the global crisis)....
And who is left....


FG!

Sadly the above is pretty close to the mark. It's either FF/FG or FFG. Looks like it's a choice between different sh1t sandwiches.

James Brown

ELM327 wrote: »

Well lets eliminate some options with logic and see whos left shall we?


AAA/PBP/Independant alliance: Populist nonsense, non supported and costed ideas
Sinn Fein: No one will go into coalition with them and they will never get enough votes alone. Not withstanding, their attitude to corporate tax means they will bankrupt the country if they ever do get in.


Social Democrats and their ilk: Same as AAA


Renua: no one gets in running on anti choice, given that 2 in 3 voted pro choice.


Labour: Decimated over the past 10 years, no longer relevant given they have been "out leftyed" by the loony left


Other independents: Cannot form government as standalone independents, no cohesion


Who is left: FF or FG. FF caused the crisis in Ireland (separate to the global crisis)....
And who is left....


FG!

You have it all arse about tit TBF.

FF crashed the entire country, again. FG took this blank slate opportunity to waste billions on a crony quango and clinics where ever Reilly wanted, jobs for 'our own'. Then to hold on to power they took on FF making them viable again, (quicker at any rate). FG have overseen and exacerbated national housing and homeless crises and all they can do is hire shills to go onto social media to try blame it all on the tiny amount of Margret Cash's in the county. So don't make me f***ing laugh.

What are we left with? A donkey in a field. I'd vote for a f***ing donkey over FF/FG.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You have it all arse about tit TBF.

FF crashed the entire country, again. FG took this blank slate opportunity to waste billions on a crony quango and clinics where ever Reilly wanted, jobs for 'our own'. Then to hold on to power they took on FF making them viable again, (quicker at any rate). FG have overseen and exacerbated national housing and homeless crises and all they can do is hire shills to go onto social media to try blame it all on the tiny amount of Margret Cash's in the county. So don't make me f***ing laugh.

What are we left with? A donkey in a field. I'd vote for a f***ing donkey over FF/FG.

did you say who you were running, sorry, voting for Matt?

And, worse again, who the electorate will put in that will solve it all, given that it's such a doddle to run the country?

_Kaiser_

ELM327 wrote: »

Well lets eliminate some options with logic and see whos left shall we?


AAA/PBP/Independant alliance: Populist nonsense, non supported and costed ideas
Sinn Fein: No one will go into coalition with them and they will never get enough votes alone. Not withstanding, their attitude to corporate tax means they will bankrupt the country if they ever do get in.


Social Democrats and their ilk: Same as AAA


Renua: no one gets in running on anti choice, given that 2 in 3 voted pro choice.


Labour: Decimated over the past 10 years, no longer relevant given they have been "out leftyed" by the loony left


Other independents: Cannot form government as standalone independents, no cohesion


Who is left: FF or FG. FF caused the crisis in Ireland (separate to the global crisis)....
And who is left....


FG!

Or....

Greens - trendy among those with too much twitter and not enough memory. Solution to valid environmental issues is to tax your way out of it (see the two tier motor tax system they created as an example)

LAB - shafted their core voters for a turn at the trough and paid for it in 2016. Pat Rabbitte admitted on national TV that making stuff up during an election was the done thing

SF - Haven't a notion how to run a massively FDI dependent economy and think that people in the south consider Northern Ireland a key issue. They don't. We have enough problems here we can't solve without taking that mess on

IND - usually one issue parochial candidates or cast offs from the Big 2. See examples like Healy Rae, Zappone, Ross, Lowry for the calibre we are often saddled with

AAA/PBP etc - as above with even more far out notions

FG - Only ever elected as a protest vote when FF lose the run of themselves and need a kicking. Only lasts until they remind us why that is and until they've made FF electable again. Any notion of them being the responsible party of law is soon lost among never ending scandals. Primary difference is the arrogance and open contempt they seem to hold the electorate in.

Which leaves..

FF - the party who has held sway over most of the life of the State. Populist and just as prone to scandal as the rest but seem to realise that you have to give the "ordinaries" something every now and then. As bad as they are, the alternatives are that much worse.

Irish politics eh?

Jinglejangle69

This article is from 2010 showing how FIANNA FAIL wasted 10 billion of tax payers money.

More than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted every year since FF came to power 10 years ago, a Sunday Independent investigation reveals.

We can show that since FF took office a decade ago, more than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted annually.

A list of failed projects, delayed works, bloated bureaucracy and poor management have all led to more than €10bn being squandered in the last 10 years.

Taxpayers' money has been squandered by every Government department including €100m on the abandoned Stadium Campus Ireland project, the €471m overrun on the Luas, the €150m overspend on the Port Tunnel, as well as almost a €1bn wasted on the Government's botched de-centralisation policy.


Apart from the overspends and underestimation in the cost of the Port Tunnel and the two Luas lines that don't link up, and the chaos that is the M50, Ireland's road building projects since 1997 have collectively cost €3.2bn more than what was originally forecast, according to our figures.


Some people here saying FIANNA FÁIL don’t overspend!!!!!!!!


Wake up people.

GreenandRed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Because he's been known to hang out with people like the late Peter Sutherland and the ultra secretive Bilderberg crowd. Neither of whose views and policies are ones we'd want to see here.

The one bonus of having Leo in charge (using that term loosely), is the damage he's been able to do is limited. As bad as his inaction on and ignoring of key issues has been, Coveney would be far more destructive in my opinion.

known to hang out with people like the late Peter Sutherland and the ultra secretive Bilderberg crowd.

You need more facts than some American conspiracy theorists. A lot more.

LillySV

Idbatterim wrote: »

marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent on a pittance!

No politicians sign going up on the front gate come election time!

I agree that Ff are useless corrupt bastards , Michael martin and co are happy out earning as much while sitting around doing nothing behind fg...but Fianna Gail have been worse in recent years... constant inaction, obvious corruption, nothing being done about anything , just keeping the media and social justice/pc police happy ... they have to be removed ... their in competence can’t continue to be rewarded

The only two options are either Ff or fg !!! I’ll still choose ff over fg just for a change

BattleCorp

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

More than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted every year since FF came to power 10 years ago, a Sunday Independent investigation reveals.

We can show that since FF took office a decade ago, more than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted annually.

A list of failed projects, delayed works, bloated bureaucracy and poor management have all led to more than €10bn being squandered in the last 10 years.

Taxpayers' money has been squandered by every Government department including €100m on the abandoned Stadium Campus Ireland project, the €471m overrun on the Luas, the €150m overspend on the Port Tunnel, as well as almost a €1bn wasted on the Government's botched de-centralisation policy.


Apart from the overspends and underestimation in the cost of the Port Tunnel and the two Luas lines that don't link up, and the chaos that is the M50, Ireland's road building projects since 1997 have collectively cost €3.2bn more than what was originally forecast, according to our figures.


Some people here saying FIANNA FÁIL don’t overspend!!!!!!!!


Wake up people.

You are conveniently forgetting to mention that Fianna Fail are the minority party in government and that it's really Fine Gael driving the ship.

GreenandRed

Snow Garden wrote: »

He has been found wanting in every tough interview or debate I have ever heard. He hasn't achieved much in any portfolio.
He doesn't seem to have much depth. He inherited his seat.

He didn't inherit his seat. He won a by election. What has Varadkar achieved?

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

did you say who you were running, sorry, voting for Matt?

And, worse again, who the electorate will put in that will solve it all, given that it's such a doddle to run the country?

Complete cop out and dodge of a response.

Point is, if what you have is making things worse, nothing is better. A non-entity would do a better job by doing zero.

Plumbthedepths

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

More than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted every year since FF came to power 10 years ago, a Sunday Independent investigation reveals.

We can show that since FF took office a decade ago, more than €1bn of taxpayers' money has been wasted annually.

A list of failed projects, delayed works, bloated bureaucracy and poor management have all led to more than €10bn being squandered in the last 10 years.

Taxpayers' money has been squandered by every Government department including €100m on the abandoned Stadium Campus Ireland project, the €471m overrun on the Luas, the €150m overspend on the Port Tunnel, as well as almost a €1bn wasted on the Government's botched de-centralisation policy.


Apart from the overspends and underestimation in the cost of the Port Tunnel and the two Luas lines that don't link up, and the chaos that is the M50, Ireland's road building projects since 1997 have collectively cost €3.2bn more than what was originally forecast, according to our figures.


Some people here saying FIANNA FÁIL don’t overspend!!!!!!!!


Wake up people.

Thought it was a FG led government in 2011 and a minority FG government in 2016 but still a FG government.

Jinglejangle69

BattleCorp wrote: »

You are conveniently forgetting to mention that Fianna Fail are the minority party in government and that it's really Fine Gael driving the ship.

No I’m not.

That article is from 2010.

I’m trying to show that FF are wreckless if not worst at overspending.

And that people have very short memories to forget what thy are like.

Jinglejangle69

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Thought it was a FG led government in 2011 and a minority FG government in 2016 but still a FG government.

That article is from 2010.

Yurt2

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Because he's been known to hang out with people like the late Peter Sutherland and the ultra secretive Bilderberg crowd. Neither of whose views and policies are ones we'd want to see here.

The one bonus of having Leo in charge (using that term loosely), is the damage he's been able to do is limited. As bad as his inaction on and ignoring of key issues has been, Coveney would be far more destructive in my opinion.

In fairness, Sutherland was one of the most (if not the most) connected Irish people in public life ever. If I were a government Minister, I'd keep him close to open doors for me regardless of his opinions (and I'd disagree with him on migration big-time).

Just because Coveney was seen at an event with him, doesn't mean he doesn't have a brain of his own.

Non FG voter, but Simon Coveney has been an above average Minister for Foreign Affairs and seems like a fairly level and decent sort.

James Brown

Yurt! wrote: »

In fairness, Sutherland was one of the most (if not the most) connected Irish people in public life ever. If I were a government Minister, I'd keep him close to open doors for me regardless of his opinions (and I'd disagree with him on migration big-time).

Just because Coveney was seen at an event with him, doesn't mean he doesn't have a brain of his own.

Non FG voter, but Simon Coveney has been an above average Minister for Foreign Affairs and seems like a fairly level and decent sort.

He backed Bailey and talked a good talk about Israel but...

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Complete cop out and dodge of a response.

Point is, if what you have is making things worse, nothing is better. A non-entity would do a better job by doing zero.

sorry matt

you didnt answer either of my questions

cop out, was it you said?

LillySV

Yurt! wrote: »

In fairness, Sutherland was one of the most (if not the most) connected Irish people in public life ever. If I were a government Minister, I'd keep him close to open doors for me regardless of his opinions (and I'd disagree with him on migration big-time).

Just because Coveney was seen at an event with him, doesn't mean he doesn't have a brain of his own.

Non FG voter, but Simon Coveney has been an above average Minister for Foreign Affairs and seems like a fairly level and decent sort.

I actually think that Coveney is a good politician but he needs to get out of fg

_Kaiser_

GreenandRed wrote: »

known to hang out with people like the late Peter Sutherland and the ultra secretive Bilderberg crowd.

You need more facts than some American conspiracy theorists. A lot more.

Sure...

2014 :
https://www.thejournal.ie/simon-coveney-bilderberg-conference-1490010-May2014/

2017:
https://youtu.be/TO5K_bxxNQc

Now, regardless of whether you think its a conspiracy, you'd have to question why a senior Irish government politician would be attending secretive meetings (in a personal capacity or not) on topics that would directly concern that government

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

sorry matt

you didnt answer either of my questions

cop out, was it you said?

You seemed confused. If you put your question in legible form, less school yard I might give it a go. However it's a standard cop out. Someone complains about government ask them what they would do. Avoids the issue and diverts attention away.
So you dodge my comment and give me the business for not playing ball, oh snap!

bmc58

Idbatterim wrote: »

I suppose there is only so long a party can get by on talk and waffle!

Good riddance to the snake !

And spoofery and spin.And feathering their own and buddies nests with government contracts.Roll on an election any time suits me.Can't wait to meet Leo's gang at my door.

GreenandRed

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Sure...

2014 :
https://www.thejournal.ie/simon-coveney-bilderberg-conference-1490010-May2014/

2017:
https://youtu.be/TO5K_bxxNQc

Now, regardless of whether you think its a conspiracy, you'd have to question why a senior Irish government politician would be attending secretive meetings (in a personal capacity or not) on topics that would directly concern that government

So secretive he announced beforehand he was going there. Only he knows why he was there but you assume it was for nefarious purposes.

Matt Barrett

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You seemed confused. If you put your question in legible form, less school yard I might give it a go. However it's a standard cop out. Someone complains about government ask them what they would do. Avoids the issue and diverts attention away.
So you dodge my comment and give me the business for not playing ball, oh snap!

no Matt, thats not it at all

you want to have your standard rant about ff/fg

when asked two simple questions- ill repeat:

who do back yourself?

who would the electorate possibly put into power that would be an improvement?

you run the usual mile

its functionally useless to want to have a go at the only two parties that have ever held government- lamentable thought their records may be- unless you can answer the simplest response about the alternative you back or envisage.

which- just saying- youve still not done.

GreenandRed

Yurt! wrote: »

In fairness, Sutherland was one of the most (if not the most) connected Irish people in public life ever. If I were a government Minister, I'd keep him close to open doors for me regardless of his opinions (and I'd disagree with him on migration big-time).

Just because Coveney was seen at an event with him, doesn't mean he doesn't have a brain of his own.

Non FG voter, but Simon Coveney has been an above average Minister for Foreign Affairs and seems like a fairly level and decent sort.

He handled the horsemeat crisis well. I can't imgine Varadkar handling any crisis well.Not without 100 advisors.

Idbatterim

Deleted User wrote: »

no Matt, thats not it at all

you want to have your standard rant about ff/fg

when asked two simple questions- ill repeat:

who do back yourself?

who would the electorate possibly put into power that would be an improvement?

you run the usual mile

its functionally useless to want to have a go at the only two parties that have ever held government- lamentable thought their records may be- unless you can answer the simplest response about the alternative you back or envisage.

which- just saying- youve still not done.

I think they are all useless. Some obviously we dont know, they havent had the chance to or chose not to go into government. I dont think just because you recognise that FFG are a awful, that you have to think someone else is great!

The choices here are appalling! You have to be prepared to get your hands dirty here to sort issues and nobody wants to do it! I sometimes wonder is it, because the country is too small, parochial. But I cant see other similar sized countries having this issue