All's not well in FG.

Jinglejangle69

Tefral wrote: »

Well actually, i am involved in house building. Theres a shortage of labour alright but not massively so. The problem is the margins are too tight on the sale price of the houses. Honestly, its not worth it.

There is a massive shortage.

Ask anyone trying to get a plumber or electrician to a job.

It’s impossible.

10000maniacs

markodaly wrote: »

You are struggling and it is showing.

The fact that DLR council agreed to the Herbert Hill plan, which is going to cost them €2.1 Million a year for 25 years shows that money was not the main roadblock here.

They also reduced LPT by 15% which reduced their income further.



If you can show me anywhere, where Eoghan Murphy endorsed, approved, or voted for that plan by all means do.

No that is the opposite of what I am saying. He should have overseen, unendorsed and unapproved the decision as pure idiocy and waste.
His job is to give the Irish taxpayer good value for their hard earned money.

Jinglejangle69

Tefral wrote: »

Well actually, i am involved in house building. Theres a shortage of labour alright but not massively so. The problem is the margins are too tight on the sale price of the houses. Honestly, its not worth it.

And yet people claim FG are only out for the builders and banks?

Something doesn’t add up here.

Charles Babbage

Tefral wrote: »

Well actually, i am involved in house building. Theres a shortage of labour alright but not massively so. The problem is the margins are too tight on the sale price of the houses. Honestly, its not worth it.

Since the sale price of the houses is relatively high here then discussion must focus on why this is the case and what contribution the government makes to it. The high cost of land is the primary reason, but other government policies could be increasing insurance costs, imposing excessive levies etc.

Some government are profoundly dysfunctional. So we have requirements for social housing levied on builders, which puts the cost of social housing on to people trying to buy their own house. This is so that hypocrite politicians can cut the property tax on existing houses.

We have seen the recent furore over creches closing because of fire regulations. These places are now required to get engineers to certify their premises. In any civilised European country you would have fire inspectors who would do this work and who wouild inspect the premises regularly, but in FG Ireland you cannot have useful public employment, so you have a whole expensive rigmarole as a result which drives up the cost of childcare.

Auguste Comte

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Imagine they built in blanch which is Leo’s constituency?

Then we would have a state of the art, modern national children's hospital by now, that would have motorway access for people outside Dublin, helicopter landing facilities, outdoor green space for sick children to use, plenty of parking for staff and stressed out parents and all for a fraction of the cost of what we are being lumbered with which has none of the above.

Idbatterim

golfball37 wrote: »

Why should there be an election? Can a poor minister not be removed and the current govt carry on? Thats what happens in proper functioning democracies.
FF will not be getting my vote if they abstain tonight. This guy has to go its beyond a joke at this stage how poor he is at his job.

hang on! I want you know what you think he should be doing?

he introduced fast track planning, nimby everything dont want housing in their area. The LPT is farcically low. Council tenants paying as good as no rent. I mean if you think he has been poor, fine. But I want to know, what you think he should be doing! You can get nothing done in this country without endless consensus and getting everyone on board. You know that he isnt a dictator?

Idbatterim

markodaly wrote: »

Some roundabout logic there.

Eoghan Murphy is responsible for the fact that Dun Laoghaire Rathdown council approved the use of Herbert Hill apartments for social housing.... even though he didn't vote for it, nor mandated it, nor even advised it.

There is plenty to blame him for but that is just stupid logic.

this is the latest thing that he needs to sort then. No building for 100% social housing, actually put a cap on the value can pay per unit as an average. 375k will do it, new builds only. To increase supply and stop them bumping up prices of working taxpayers looking to buy in the private market...

The morons here are like kids, you need to close off every potential moronic loophole that they will go after...

Snow Garden

mariaalice wrote: »

What happening in FG is the same all governments who are there a long time in any democracy things are slipping a bit, getting a bit complacent.

Then trow in the fact that there is an election coming up which is bringing out all sorts of issues that groups want focus on and all sorts of groups who are making a grab for some money while they can keep the pressure on.

A bit complacent? No mention of the insurance fraud and expense fraud that has embroiled 5 FG TDs in recent months? Is that normal at this end of the election cycle too?

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

They could have, you know, listened to independent expert advice on the location being totally unsuitable in terms of

1. Ambulance access
2. Parent access
3. Children access from outside Dublin
4. External residence options, for parents
5. Site size
6. Access to Motorway Network
7. Ease of build

So, instead of building at Blanch or Tallaght, they tried to pull a political stunt and build in D8 James's.
Yeah how is that going?

St James was chosen as a teaching hospital, Blanch is not but it's getting the satellite hospital. Don't think Tallaght was ever considered. Somehow the logic here seems to imagine that they would not have run into cost overruns just by going elsewhere. As for "independent advice" you really should link to it, just to see it's not yet another vested interest and there were lots of them proposing all manner of things.

is_that_so

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Then we would have a state of the art, modern national children's hospital by now, that would have motorway access for people outside Dublin, helicopter landing facilities, outdoor green space for sick children to use, plenty of parking for staff and stressed out parents and all for a fraction of the cost of what we are being lumbered with which has none of the above.

Please specify your back of the envelope "fraction of the cost"!

Idbatterim

Tefral wrote: »

Well actually, i am involved in house building. Theres a shortage of labour alright but not massively so. The problem is the margins are too tight on the sale price of the houses. Honestly, its not worth it.

they can start off taxing the houses less then! Forget giving people the ability to borrow more and drown themselves in debt, while wasters are given luxury apartments in dundrum for free!

Tefral

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

There is a massive shortage.

Ask anyone trying to get a plumber or electrician to a job.

It’s impossible.

Thats only because lads dont want to be dealing with Missus housewife whinging about the sockets being a little crooked or the white colour of her handbasin being not white enough.

Fellas wont go to the smaller jobs anymore because they are being hammered on price by the householder thinking they could do a better job themselves.

Anyway, thats an arguement for another thread.

The real problem is the fact that fees, landprices, vat etc are pushing up the house prices beyond what the banks are willing to lend to people so the margins are too tight.

Im involved in 3 housing estates where the full compliment of the houses wont be built because the developer is not seeing the return.

woohoo!!!

Tefral wrote: »

Thats only because lads dont want to be dealing with Missus housewife whinging about the sockets being a little crooked or the white colour of her handbasin being not white enough.

Fellas wont go to the smaller jobs anymore because they are being hammered on price by the householder thinking they could do a better job themselves.

Anyway, thats an arguement for another thread.

The real problem is the fact that fees, landprices, vat etc are pushing up the house prices beyond what the banks are willing to lend to people so the margins are too tight.

Im involved in 3 housing estates where the full compliment of the houses wont be built because the developer is not seeing the return.

This. Couldn't agree more.

Jinglejangle69

Tefral wrote: »

Thats only because lads dont want to be dealing with Missus housewife whinging about the sockets being a little crooked or the white colour of her handbasin being not white enough.

Fellas wont go to the smaller jobs anymore because they are being hammered on price by the householder thinking they could do a better job themselves.

Anyway, thats an arguement for another thread.

The real problem is the fact that fees, landprices, vat etc are pushing up the house prices beyond what the banks are willing to lend to people so the margins are too tight.

Im involved in 3 housing estates where the full compliment of the houses wont be built because the developer is not seeing the return.

Why are we constantly told that FG are keeping prices high to benefit the banks and builders if no one can afford to build or buy the bloody houses!!??

Just shows the nonsense theories the opposition and the left come out with.

woohoo!!!

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why are we constantly told that FG are keeping prices high to benefit the banks and builders if no one can afford to build or buy the bloody houses!!??

Just shows the nonsense theories the opposition and the left come out with.

What have FG done to tackle high land prices, high interest rates charged by banks, high indirect taxes and high fees charged by some professionals? All leading to high house prices.

Then ask yourself why haven't they, and who benefits from the status quo?

Idbatterim

woohoo!!! wrote: »

What have FG done to tackle high land prices, high interest rates charged by banks, high indirect taxes and high fees charged by some professionals? All leading to high house prices.

Then ask yourself why haven't they, and who benefits from the status quo?

thats the thing, its so simple knowing what to do, if they were bothered its so simple to take action, but they dont? why not? Maybe, just maybe, they want to maintain the status quo!

Phoebas

Idbatterim wrote: »

thats the thing, its so simple knowing what to do, if they were bothered its so simple to take action, but they dont? why not? Maybe, just maybe, they want to maintain the status quo!

Everyones' an expert.

Jinglejangle69

woohoo!!! wrote: »

What have FG done to tackle high land prices, high interest rates charged by banks, high indirect taxes and high fees charged by some professionals? All leading to high house prices.

Then ask yourself why haven't they, and who benefits from the status quo?

Since when can governments decide banks interest rates??

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

When was the last time a government party won a bye election?
Its a rare thing. Too much read into this election imo.

BUT that is not to say FG shouldnt be worried.

FG have done some good things:

Economy is good
Good relationship with Europe
Did very good work with Brexit
Debt paid down

Housing and Health are the obvious issues for most people, but when has health never been in crisis and in fairness, housing seems to be turning a bit as well. There are lots to blame for both. The government are not the Chinese Communist party and cannot issue dictats to get things done. This is Ireland, decisions about policy takes years and years, never mind their implementation.

I am dissapointed about public transport and infrastructure. They need to be more forthright about high density housing, the metro, bus connects things like that in my opinion. But again, this is Ireland..

You're codding nobody. You push this baloney that FG would have done this or that but for external issues.
Housing is ticking along just as FG want it. Otherwise they'd even suggest something new, they are not even suggesting change while the crises worsen so get up the yard.

markodaly wrote: »

As to the next GE, as I mentioned the next government will either be a coalition or a minority government, so the same issues will still be there.
Someone mentioned a donkey in a field would be better than FG, I think this shows you the stupidity, ignorance and lack of any understanding on how policy is formed, discussed and implimented.

This is who FG are trying to 'please'. Of course, they offer no solutions or alternatives themselves, but regale us time and time again on how 'bad FG' are...

You're talking sh*te. FG are pushing FG poilcy and we see the result.

FG make their crises worse so no FG means improvement.
Build social housing. You are a complete liar on this MarkO. We've discussed at great length the alternatives. Build instead of lease or buy. That simple. Everybody on boards knows alternatives are discussed whether they agree with them or not. 'no alternatives'? you chancer :rolleyes:
No point in pretending to discuss if you constantly erase and repeat your shyte.

Wanderer78

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

Why are we constantly told that FG are keeping prices high to benefit the banks and builders if no one can afford to build or buy the bloody houses!!??

Ever rising house prices greatly benefits the banking system, it's an astonishingly disturbing system, creates the money that's used to purchase the asset in the first place in the form of credit, the debtor obviously must pay this back in full, plus interest, potentially could lose that asset if this fails, and the asset falls back into the hands of the creditor. Then of course there's all the speculative activities with that debt within the financial system, it really is a win win for the banking system

woohoo!!!

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Since when can governments decide banks interest rates??

Leaving aside their major share holding in banks, they're in charge of policy setting. And the policy of inflating the value of land, assets, property and so on, has served to see the return of crazy price town, most notably in rent. Now, who exactly voted for that?

James Brown

This is why we have a housing crisis:

FG want business to do well, above all else.
Vulture funds pay low taxes.
LA's/State provide business for vulture funds.
This keeps prices high as they buy to rent or lease.
Tax payers can't afford rent or to buy.
They need state aid...so LA's/state buy/lease off vulture funds.
Everybody is quids in, the economy looks good.
This leaves the tax payer subsidising lower income tax payers, while Noonan, his vulture fund chums and TD landlords get minted.

Why on earth would dirt like Fine Gael want to 'tackle' housing in any other way? They've even got lackies giving out about low income people being the problem.

Idbatterim

Jesus the few of us constantly repeating what is obvious and public knowledge is soul destroying. There needs to be a sticky on the housing racket in my opinion and keep all talk of it there ...

James Brown

Idbatterim wrote: »

Jesus the few of us constantly repeating what is obvious and public knowledge is soul destroying. There needs to be a sticky on the housing racket in my opinion and keep all talk of it there ...

It's tiring. You hash it out and agree or not it's there for all to read then a few weeks later the same shams come out with the same spin and at this stage lies.

blanch152

woohoo!!! wrote: »

What have FG done to tackle high land prices, high interest rates charged by banks, high indirect taxes and high fees charged by some professionals? All leading to high house prices.

Then ask yourself why haven't they, and who benefits from the status quo?

The answer to that lies in the Dail arithmetic and the grip of factless politics on the public debate.

High interest rates charged by the banks can be easily tackled. You just have to make it really easy for banks to repossess properties of borrowers in default. The risk of default to banks is lower, therefore they can lower interest rates. The repossessions have a secondary effect of lowering house prices, as supply is increased.

Moving from indirect taxation to direct taxation is also simple. You just bring income tax levels into line with the rest of the EU. That would mean increasing the tax burden on those who earn less than the average wage.

High land prices are also fixable. You could propose a constitutional amendment meaning that all land should be valued as its agricultural use. Not a single farmer across the country would ever sell a house for a site again (which is a really good idea in my opinion).

There you go, there is your solution and your political platform:

(1) Make it easier for banks to repossess family homes.
(2) Increase the income tax burden on those with less than average earnings.
(3) Require all land to be sold at agricultural prices via a constitutional amendment.

After you have run in the election, please let us know how you get on.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Build social housing. You are a complete liar on this MarkO. We've discussed at great length the alternatives. Build instead of lease or buy. That simple. Everybody on boards knows alternatives are discussed whether they agree with them or not. 'no alternatives'? you chancer :rolleyes:
No point in pretending to discuss if you constantly erase and repeat your shyte.

Not this again. Over and over, your simple solution of just build social housing has been shown to be full of flaws. You have never explained how it can be done, you have never explained why a builder would build houses for the state for less profit than they would build them for themselves. You have never explained how the EU procurement laws would be adhered to. You have never explained how the local authorities would be able to carry this work out at zero cost.

Without those detailed explanations, it is in the realm of Walter Mitty. If you could only produce some kind of CSO statistic or independent report to back up your ideas, they might have some credibility, but without that, they're not worth discussing.

Larbre34

woohoo!!! wrote: »

What have FG done to tackle high land prices, high interest rates charged by banks, high indirect taxes and high fees charged by some professionals? All leading to high house prices.

Then ask yourself why haven't they, and who benefits from the status quo?

Thats such an overly simplistic and conflated statement as to be baseless.

Yes, the situation is unsustainable and arguably immoral in many respects, but there are so many factors at play other than political clientitilism; the Constitution, common law precedent, the law of the land, EU banking and financial regulation, and the inability generally to have laws applied retrospectively.

The biggest and best thing FG and any Govt or party can do to encourage a healthy and flexible housing market is to get the Eff out of the way!!

James Brown

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats such an overly simplistic and conflated statement as to be baseless.

Yes, the situation is unsustainable and arguably immoral in many respects, but there are so many factors at play other than political clientitilism; the Constitution, common law precedent, the law of the land, EU banking and financial regulation, and the inability generally to have laws applied retrospectively.

The biggest and best thing FG and any Govt or party can do to encourage a healthy and flexible housing market is to get the Eff out of the way!!

Based on their record and the best people they have in their member I expect that baldy Noonan and friends are making money off the crises.
Do we think they don't see their policies on one hand and record breaking ongoing crises on the other? It's not credible.

They should get out of the way after they begin repairs on the damage they caused.

woohoo!!!

blanch152 wrote: »

The answer to that lies in the Dail arithmetic and the grip of factless politics on the public debate.

High interest rates charged by the banks can be easily tackled. You just have to make it really easy for banks to repossess properties of borrowers in default. The risk of default to banks is lower, therefore they can lower interest rates. The repossessions have a secondary effect of lowering house prices, as supply is increased.

Moving from indirect taxation to direct taxation is also simple. You just bring income tax levels into line with the rest of the EU. That would mean increasing the tax burden on those who earn less than the average wage.

High land prices are also fixable. You could propose a constitutional amendment meaning that all land should be valued as its agricultural use. Not a single farmer across the country would ever sell a house for a site again (which is a really good idea in my opinion).

There you go, there is your solution and your political platform:

(1) Make it easier for banks to repossess family homes.
(2) Increase the income tax burden on those with less than average earnings.
(3) Require all land to be sold at agricultural prices via a constitutional amendment.

After you have run in the election, please let us know how you get on.

A creative and entertaining reply, fair dues.
1) use it or lose it clause on site planning permissions, an incremental sepeculative tax on each time a site is flipped and provide courts with additional resources to speed up decision times and tackle the 'no rent/mortgage paid whilst holding the show up for years in courts. Not quite the same as your turf folk out of the family home simplified line.
2) on every policy, plan, legislation etcproduced by the state or state authorities, must include a 'reduce the cost of living analysis' to address same.
3) see 1 above, but update and streamline CPO powers, derelict site powers, vacant site powers and no exemptions for state bodies.

woohoo!!!

Larbre34 wrote: »

Thats such an overly simplistic and conflated statement as to be baseless.

Yes, the situation is unsustainable and arguably immoral in many respects, but there are so many factors at play other than political clientitilism; the Constitution, common law precedent, the law of the land, EU banking and financial regulation, and the inability generally to have laws applied retrospectively.

The biggest and best thing FG and any Govt or party can do to encourage a healthy and flexible housing market is to get the Eff out of the way!!

So asking a question or question on the issue is baseless? I'm in no doubt that the answer in full is extremely complex and beyond the ability of pretty much anyone on boards to answer.

But it is baseless to shoot down the question, which you clearly haven't read properly. Nor have evidently FG come up with a coherent response to adequately address either, after nigh on 9 years.