Bullies never win????

Antares35

I was bullied as a kid. My parents did report it and the teachers did what they could by separating the two c*nts into different classes. Their powers diminished when they were not together. I'm 36 now and still remember how they ruined what should have been a "rite of passage for me" - the first disco. We would have been maybe 12 at the time. They told me everyone was wearing dresses to it (the kind little kids wore in those days). I remember my Dad bringing me shopping for a dress for it, proud as punch. Still makes me sad thinking about it now, but for him not for me - I have an adult perspective on it now I suppose. When I got there, it turned out everyone (girls included) was wearing levis and sweatshirts, as was the trend at that time. I remember falling and being ridiculed and laughed at by these two hyenas and their cohort. I had my first panic attack that night. Didn't even know what it was and I thought I was dying. I ran out of the school hall and luckily my parents had had the good sense to wait in the carpark without telling me, on account of it being a first disco.

When I think back on it, I only really feel sad for my Dad to be honest. he felt guilty for bringing me to buy the dress.

I certainly don't subscribe to the grin and bear it approach - bullies should be severely reprimanded for what they inflict on others, but I will teach my child that really, if a bully thinks that you don't care or are above their behaviour etc. they will soon lose interest. Bullies do what they do to make themselves feel better. If they don't get any reaction from someone, they will likely get bored. Might also be worth teaching them not to bully others. It's like the whole issue around sexual abuse and teaching our kids to be safe - it is just as important to teach our kids not to abuse others.

I would also say in particular to Feisar's point, it doesn't always flow into adulthood. I haven't been bullied for a long time and don't intend to be any time soon! Some people, yes even kids, are just nasty - perhaps that is one that does flow into adulthood? :P

Tell me how

Feisar wrote: »

This is going to sound like victim blaming. I don't care, it is the truth:

It sounds like victim blaming because it is.
The fault is with the individual who seeks to demean/dominate someone else solely so that they have a sense of power.

Children who are gentle, kind, expressively happy can often be targeted by bullies because they have these traits. The solution is not to remove those traits or to keep them hidden.

Feisar

Tell me how wrote: »

It sounds like victim blaming because it is.
The fault is with the individual who seeks to demean/dominate someone else solely so that they have a sense of power.

Children who are gentle, kind, expressively happy can often be targeted by bullies because they have these traits. The solution is not to remove those traits or to keep them hidden.

My statement doesn't have anything to do with emotion or right/wrong, if I get robbed walking down the street, me walking down said street is part of the reason I was robbed.

Mic 1972

Feisar wrote: »

This is going to sound like victim blaming. I don't care, it is the truth:

People who are bullied are so for a reason, they are not randomly picked, maybe a bit awkward or like myself as a child, to thick to doff the cap but to soft to go hardcore.

This stuff flows into adulthood as well:

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/get_attacked.htm

That's exactly what it is

Feisar

Mic 1972 wrote: »

That's exactly what it is

It's still the truth though.

joseywhales

We are all responsible for the environment that we work/play/live in.

We are all responsible for allowing bulies to exist, if everyone agreed to a simple code of respecting every member of the group and never to ridicule or humiliate others, then we wouldn't have an issue, those that do so should be ostracized until they learn not to, this is fairly obvious in most places that I have worked for example. It's a tactful way to deal with people with self esteem issues.

Paul_Mc1988

I knew a lot of bullies in school. The majority of them are scrotes now living off the dole or working **** jobs for a bad wage. A few are even dead. I wouldn't agree with you that they never lose.

Rubberchikken

people need to learn from a young age to treat others properly and if crap comes their way to deal with it immediately.

giving a bully a chance or even hesitating for a second seems to give them licence to continue their pathetic behaviour.

Tell me how

joseywhales wrote: »

We are all responsible for the environment that we work/play/live in.

We are all responsible for allowing bulies to exist, if everyone agreed to a simple code of respecting every member of the group and never to ridicule or humiliate others, then we wouldn't have an issue, those that do so should be ostracized until they learn not to, this is fairly obvious in most places that I have worked for example. It's a tactful way to deal with people with self esteem issues.

If humans were capable of such a thing, we would not have a need for a police force.

Also, you are suggesting bullying someone (ostracising them) which is a dangerous approach where sometimes an accusation might have been falsely made.

Every workplace should have a code of conduct in the employee handbook but also procedures on how it investigates and handles claims of bullying in a professional manner.

joseywhales

I mean sure there is a code of conduct but we all know that 99% of problems go unreported and are dealt with socially in a good environment. I agree its important when reprimanding someone to be tactful and let them know that they are not being labelled or permanently isolated and are valued members of the group. Obviously , I am only talking about if I see or hear someone gossiping for example about anyone else , I would confront them, just to signal that you don't accept that, these little things done by everyone will just make the environment better. If it is sustained, targeted and secretive bullying then yes some kind of professional intervention might be required.

wellwhynot

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

I knew a lot of bullies in school. The majority of them are scrotes now living off the dole or working **** jobs for a bad wage. A few are even dead. I wouldn't agree with you that they never lose.

I agree with the above. I went to a private school and while there was no bullying in my class there was bullying in the school. Most of the time the bullies came from dysfunctional backgrounds, had psychological problems or were non fee paying students. Many of the victims who would have at the time been thought of as nerds or square have gone on to be doctors, lawyers, business owners etc. A couple of the well known bullies have served me in shops/supermarkets or were pushing prams by 19. Bullies might win in school but rarely win in life.

LoughNeagh2017

I am a loner, autistic strange person so obviously I know a good bit abut bullying, it doesn't stop at school either, people are just more subtle about it as adults. It all led to me becoming a misanthropist (dislike of humans), what other reaction can I have to my years of suffering at the hands of people? People only treat you well if you are the same as them, that doesn't make them a good person, a true good person would treat you well even if you are very different to them. I believe some people are good but still I would never trust them.

People have this idea that bullies are low IQ bumpkins who are loud mouths and rowdy, this isn't true, all sorts of people can be bullies. I experienced bullying from people who went on to do Engieering degrees and Science degrees at university, it is said that people who have agressive personalities thrive in the working world.

I remember a couple of boys used to make comments about me looking like a panda (I have large skull) and I reported it to the teacher, she did nothing about it, I assume it is because I reported them before the Halloween holidays and she forgot about it. One of the boys is an engineer in Silicon Valley in USA now, though he did seem to change in the later years of school as he was decent to me later on.

I also remember when I was 17, I used to stand alone after school waiting for my bus, these young 13 year old (probably in big jobs now of course) kept running over and shoving me and running away laughing. I lost it and grabbed one of them and punched him many times on the back and swung him around by his waist, the teacher saw this and said that I shouldn't have done it. This scenario worked out ok though as the teachers involved knew that I was not the type to go out looking for fights and they came down hard on the younger boys, I remember the teacher made him apologise to me and he was crying, it was obvious he was just picking on the weird loner to show of to his friends. To hell with all of them though, I don't forgive stuff like that and more than likely he is a top GAA pillar of the community now 10 years on.

I have so many other stories, the countless people who would make fun of my blushing disorder, a symptom of Social Anxiety I have had to endure for many years. The boys who would make fun of me for starting puberty early as I had developed a moustache aged 11, that caused me serious trauma I think looking back. Then there are the many boys who have mad fun of my voice over the years, I have a quiet monotone voice most likely because of Autism and boys would speak to me at school just so I would reply and they would laugh afterwards, I know this is true because a friend told me to stop replying to them as they knew what what they were doing.

I also experienced harassment when I tried to live in an apartment with other young people, I tried to get on with them by partying with them however when I had enough of their taunts I stopped socialising and locked my door whenever they had parties, ons boy would punch and kick at my door. This is a prime example why living with parents is a far better option when you are not a Neuro Typical man.

As an adult I received bullying at work by the eastern Europeans, though I know it wasn't because of their nationality because I have suffered at the hands of Irish and English too. I was quite slow at the job in the warehouse and they would laugh all day at me and speak in Polish, a local woman told me I should report them but I told her I was planning to leave the job anyway. I also had to leave my last job because a local man took a hatred against me, he started swearing at me so I just walked out. That was 7 months ago and I am honestly scared to start employment again because of how society treat socially inept men like me. I live a life of torment and I wil eventually leave it by my own hand, however I made a pledge to myself that I won't die until after my parents die, so probably I have 25 years left.

LoughNeagh2017

wellwhynot wrote: »

I agree with the above. I went to a private school and while there was no bullying in my class there was bullying in the school. Most of the time the bullies came from dysfunctional backgrounds, had psychological problems or were non fee paying students. Many of the victims who would have at the time been thought of as nerds or square have gone on to be doctors, lawyers, business owners etc. A couple of the well known bullies have served me in shops/supermarkets or were pushing prams by 19. Bullies might win in school but rarely win in life.

That is a fairy tale myth, IQ has nothing to do with how you treat other people. My uncle is a wealthy business owner and is well known to be abusive to his staff. The people who were bullies at my grammar school in Northern Ireland did top courses at university. It is just a tale that people say to look down on the lower class, many lower class people weren't bullies in school and many successful people were bullies. Being a single mum at 18 doesn't automatically mean the girl was a bully.

Snotty

From a work/adult perspective, over the years i have seen so many people bullied in the workplace and do nothing, usually they are good staff so they just leave and find a new job, maybe mostly in smaller companies without an actual HR department but also in big companies.
I've also seen plenty of inept staff who have accused their line manger of bullying when actually they are just crap at their job and the manager is doing everything they can to get their productivity up. In my current work 2 staff on a processing team were put on PIPs for poor delivery and QR results, both treated the exact same, one went to HR said she was being bullied and demanded to be moved to another team which would be seen as a better job, she got it. Other person on the PIP said they were treated fine and understood they weren't performing enough and had to just try harder, unfortunately that person didn't improve but of the two staff she was much better, but she didn't shout bully so lost her job rather than get promoted.

freshpopcorn

If I ever had children I wouldn't feed them rubbish about bullies never win, etc.
I think it's a massive lie that is told.

arccosh

after seeing what bullying can do to someone when they are younger and how it feeds into adult life...the only thing you can try and teach is self esteem, some defences skills and the tough pill that sometimes, no matter what you do, the bully will still win... in that case avoid the situation (voluntarily or through forced means).

Bullying is by no means IQ related.... anyone in the work place will contest to that... pleanty of people with degrees/upper management who will gladly bully...

I always found it was a vent by someone else to cover their own issues or insecurities....

str8talkingguy

Bullies often do well in life economically,but if you dig deep into any of them they are just passing on some level of subjucation or bullying they experience whether in their home life or work life onto the bullied person and then they are fine once they passed it on.

They feel strong again after someone has made them weak,but one thing is for sure a bully is always getting bullied or subjucated either in their home life or work life by someone else,they just have learnt to pass it on.If someone is bullying you,if you cant stand up to them or pass it on to someone else you will be miserable,successful people either stand up to their bully or they pass it on by bullying someone else.

The person that suffers the most is the one that neither stands up to their bully nor passes it on to someone else.

sydthebeat

Bullies are generally damaged kids who have to put up with abuse at home.

The cyclical nature of familial issues (drink, drugs, abuse, unemployment, etc) tend to fall back on them in later life.

hawley

I bullied a boy at school, as part of a group. We both did fine in life. I don't think you can make sweeping statements like "Bullies never win". Bullying can be as traumatic for the actual bully as it is for the person being bullied. There was a report published recently saying that everyone involved in the bullying will be scarred by it. My mother was we quite strict and had ultra religious beliefs. I wanted to win her praise so we picked on a guy who we thought was gay. We physically assaulted and harassed him for years. It was around the time of AIDS being in the news and we used that to make sure everyone was afraid to go near him.

I feel embarrassed by what I did at the time, but I also feel that I was a victim of the society. Someone should have stepped in and tried to stop it. Teachers knew it was going on but just washed their hands of it.

gmisk

hawley wrote: »

I bullied a boy at school, as part of a group. We both did fine in life. I don't think you can make sweeping statements like "Bullies never win". Bullying can be as traumatic for the actual bully as it is for the person being bullied. There was a report published recently saying that everyone involved in the bullying will be scarred by it. My mother was we quite strict and had ultra religious beliefs. I wanted to win her praise so we picked on a guy who we thought was gay. We physically assaulted and harassed him for years. It was around the time of AIDS being in the news and we used that to make sure everyone was afraid to go near him.

I feel embarrassed by what I did at the time, but I also feel that I was a victim of the society. Someone should have stepped in and tried to stop it. Teachers knew it was going on but just washed their hands of it.

Bullying can be as traumatic for the bully as it is for the person being bullied?!?
What a load of rubbish!
How exactly can you justify that?

Your right to feel embarrassed by what you did, that we can agree on.

Wanderer78

hawley wrote:

I bullied a boy at school, as part of a group. We both did fine in life. I don't think you can make sweeping statements like "Bullies never win". Bullying can be as traumatic for the actual bully as it is for the person being bullied. There was a report published recently saying that everyone involved in the bullying will be scarred by it. My mother was we quite strict and had ultra religious beliefs. I wanted to win her praise so we picked on a guy who we thought was gay. We physically assaulted and harassed him for years. It was around the time of AIDS being in the news and we used that to make sure everyone was afraid to go near him.

I have to hand it to you for admitting to bullying, but you certainly don't have the right to speak for your victim, how do you know that he is doing fine, have you actually spoken to him? There's a good chance he lived, or possibly still lives with the trauma

hawley

gmisk wrote: »

Bullying can be as traumatic for the bully as it is for the person being bullied?!?
What a load of rubbish!
How exactly can you justify that?

Your right to feel embarrassed by what you did, that we can agree on.

Firstly there's a lot of evidence to say that it is true. I also feel bad about it years later. I'm still friends with some of the others in the group and if it ever comes up, you'd know how big an impact being the person who bullied has had on their lives. We all had something bad happen to us in childhood and it came out in school. Even bystanders can be victims of it, can be traumatic to feel powerless to help a victim.

Wanderer78

hawley wrote:

Firstly there's a lot of evidence to say that it is true. I also feel bad about it years later. I'm still friends with some of the others in the group and if it ever comes up, you'd know how big an impact being the person who bullied has had on their lives. We all had something bad happen to us in childhood and it came out in school. Even bystanders can be victims of it, can be traumatic to feel powerless to help a victim.

I will agree that bullying can be traumatic for bullies to, but you still don't have the right to speak for your victim, you don't have the right to say it was equally difficult for you, as you do not know how your victim has felt or still feels. If this is still difficult for you, maybe you should seek help for it, but be mindful of the pain your victim may still experience

hawley

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I have to hand it to you for admitting to bullying, but you certainly don't have the right to speak for your victim, how do you know that he is doing fine, have you actually spoken to him? There's a good chance he lived, or possibly still lives with the trauma

Of course I can't fully say, but he seems to be doing quite well. I only know of him through looking at his social media profiles and through people who know him. I don't think anyone can really answer that question about someone else.

Wanderer78

hawley wrote:

Of course I can't fully say, but he seems to be doing quite well. I only know of him through looking at his social media profiles. I don't think anyone can really answer that question about someone else.

No, nobody can answer that, only the victim, a person may seem like they're fine, but internally are crushed, never ever underestimate the destruction bullying can cause. it's always important to remember, the life one presents on social media, may not in fact be their reality

DeanAustin

Faugheen wrote: »

Or how about the adults responsible do something about it?

If you see someone being bullied. Call them out. Report it.

Bullies win because people like you sit on your hands and act like it’s none of your business.

This nonsense of ‘don’t wait for society’, do something about it then. The only person waiting for society is you.

The most common place I see adult bullying is in the workplace and it's somewhere where bullies prosper.

When you ask people to do something about it, their common answer is "no way, if I do it, I'll suffer in the long run." And they may not be wrong.

Easy to throw out "confront the bullies" but most people won't if there is a chance they'll lose out personally.

Galwayguy35

Got bullied myself because I was smaller than the rest at the time and quiet as well, group of them gave me a bit of a kicking in the toilets and I told my folks who in turn told the teachers.

The teacher gave them a bollocking and I was seen as a grass and it solved nothing, the only thing I learned was to keep my mouth shut and I stuck it out until I grew up as big as them and then it stopped when I could fight back.

Heebie

Mic 1972 wrote:

Stand up to bullies or stay away, dont expect "society" to resolve the issue

I tried staying away... they came after me.
I tried standing up for myself, and *I* got in trouble. (Detentions, suspended from school etc...)

davedonie

I got bullied in school, for years. To avoid them I was last into class so as to arrive after teacher, and first out, and at break I found an out of the way place. So I was seen as a trouble maker, last in, first out, caught places your not supposed to be. And when I got to my lowest the teachers were worried and called in my mother, who assumed I was down cos of what was going on at home.

Anyway, you leave school and you get on with it and you have the laughs and enjoy life.

I found the weirdest thing was getting a job and people treating my like an actual normal human. It took awhile but you get to realise nobody has the right to single you out as a target for their games just cos your quiet or clearly gay. I dont think anybody wins, we all just get on with our lives.
I've bumped into one of them since, he looked mortified. But he was a kid and thought it was fun at the time.

Wanderer78

davedonie wrote: »

I got bullied in school, for years. To avoid them I was last into class so as to arrive after teacher, and first out, and at break I found an out of the way place. So I was seen as a trouble maker, last in, first out, caught places your not supposed to be. And when I got to my lowest the teachers were worried and called in my mother, who assumed I was down cos of what was going on at home.

Anyway, you leave school and you get on with it and you have the laughs and enjoy life.

I found the weirdest thing was getting a job and people treating my like an actual normal human. It took awhile but you get to realise nobody has the right to single you out as a target for their games just cos your quiet or clearly gay. I dont think anybody wins, we all just get on with our lives.
I've bumped into one of them since, he looked mortified. But he was a kid and thought it was fun at the time.

unfortunately, some simply dont get on with their lives, the trauma can last a lifetime, causing all sorts of complex issues