Eoin Murphy no confidence vote

Sheepdish1

What happens if Eoin Murphy loses this motion?

It is clear strategies are not working to help housing market. It just seems to be getting worse and worse. Many houses out of reach to buy for average workers on commuter belts, rents continually increasing to unprecedented levels,
smaller private landlords exiting markets, millions being pumped into emergency accommodation each month.

Just to top it all off cuckoo funds are now buying up huge amounts of housing stock to put back on the rental market for prices. 150 houses have been bought in what is probably a very sought after location for families! How is this allowed to happen when there is such a short supply for families or single people? Not to mention the council leasing houses for extortionate prices in
Dundrum instead of building houses and collecting rent themselves.

Idbatterim

If it’s so easy to solve. Why isn’t the man with all the answers varadkar helping his buddy out ? Nobody they put in charge of housing will sort the issues out. The system is fcuked, Murphy Doesnt control the system. All decision makers in this country are home owners or nearly all ... you start to see where I’m going with this op ?

The only way I see this being solved , depending on what is meant by the term “ solved “ is the public actually demanding a change to the system or try sf or someone that say they will run a different system. Because the current one Doesn’t work for a lot of us. But it does work for many others and most importantly Op, it works for the important people ...

He's going nowhere.


Sadly.

blanch152

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

What happens if Eoin Murphy loses this motion?

It is clear strategies are not working to help housing market. It just seems to be getting worse and worse. Many houses out of reach to buy for average workers on commuter belts, rents continually increasing to unprecedented levels,
smaller private landlords exiting markets, millions being pumped into emergency accommodation each month.

Just to top it all off cuckoo funds are now buying up huge amounts of housing stock to put back on the rental market for prices. 150 houses have been bought in what is probably a very sought after location for families! How is this allowed to happen when there is such a short supply for families or single people? Not to mention the council leasing houses for extortionate prices in
Dundrum instead of building houses and collecting rent themselves.

Let us look at some facts.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexseptember2019/


"In Dublin, residential property prices decreased by 1.3% in the year to September - house prices decreased by 1.5% and apartments decreased by 0.2%"

The Mid-East, the commuter belt, saw only small rises.

With wages rising by 5-6% according to the stats, then housing is more affordable this year than last.

A look at housing completions:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ndc/newdwellingcompletionsq32019/

"There were 5,667 new dwelling completions in Q3 2019. This compares with 4,645 completions for Q3 2018, an increase of 22.0%."

A 22% increase is not to be sniffed at, still not enough, but heading in the right direction, just like affordability.

Interestingly, these statistics do not include student accommodation. "In Q3 2019, 1,538 bed spaces were completed in the student accommodation sector".

That is a significant number of people being taken out of the normal rental market.

The story on rents is not as good, they are still going up, despite the rent controls.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research/ar/

So, the facts tell us that the price of property in Dublin is coming down, affordability is easier, the number of properties being built has significantly increased, but that rents are still at high levels. One of two things may be at play, either there is significant population increase/migration preventing rents falling with the increased supply, or rental changes are lagging behind the increase in supply. That should become clearer over the next year.

Government performance on housing in the last year should therefore be rated somewhere between a C and a D. Not bad enough to be considered a failure, not good enough to be considered a significant success, but the picture is one of slow improvement.

Sheepdish1

blanch152 wrote: »

Let us look at some facts.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexseptember2019/


"In Dublin, residential property prices decreased by 1.3% in the year to September - house prices decreased by 1.5% and apartments decreased by 0.2%"

The Mid-East, the commuter belt, saw only small rises.

With wages rising by 5-6% according to the stats, then housing is more affordable this year than last.

A look at housing completions:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ndc/newdwellingcompletionsq32019/

"There were 5,667 new dwelling completions in Q3 2019. This compares with 4,645 completions for Q3 2018, an increase of 22.0%."

A 22% increase is not to be sniffed at, still not enough, but heading in the right direction, just like affordability.

Interestingly, these statistics do not include student accommodation. "In Q3 2019, 1,538 bed spaces were completed in the student accommodation sector".

That is a significant number of people being taken out of the normal rental market.

The story on rents is not as good, they are still going up, despite the rent controls.

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research/ar/

So, the facts tell us that the price of property in Dublin is coming down, affordability is easier, the number of properties being built has significantly increased, but that rents are still at high levels. One of two things may be at play, either there is significant population increase/migration preventing rents falling with the increased supply, or rental changes are lagging behind the increase in supply. That should become clearer over the next year.

Government performance on housing in the last year should therefore be rated somewhere between a C and a D. Not bad enough to be considered a failure, not good enough to be considered a significant success, but the picture is one of slow improvement.

That is quite a jump in fairness....there has been an increases of accommodation being built however it doesn’t say what percentage of those were bought privately or those that were bought by cuckoo funds. There seem to be a lot of stock being bought in bulk by cuckoo funds which shouldn’t be happening during a housing crisis. They’ll be put back on the market to rent at extortionate prices. Private buyers can’t compete with those.

I feel the situation is getting worse particularly for renters. Small two bed apartments being advertised for €1600-€1800 per month in towns outside Dublin is crazy. Ive never seen anything like it.

The crazy rent being charged at the moment has an impact on how much people can save to buy a house and there is so much money being wasted in emergency accommodation and building family hubs.

Do these cuckoo funds buying up housing stock have to pay the same level of tax as rental income as everyone else or can they avail of the lower corporate tax rates? Someone told me it is the latter so I would be interested to find out if there is any truth to that

Sheepdish1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's going nowhere.


Sadly.

I don’t envy him trying to fix the disastrous situation it is, it is near impossible as it is in such a state. However the policies being implemented are making it worse not better. It’s very deflating

Kidchameleon

Idbatterim wrote: »

But it does work for many others and most importantly Op, it works for the important people ...

It works for people who get off their ass and work hard

Idbatterim

things may be improving slowly, but this is the issue, the change has been so slow and glacial and it takes so long for people to notice, that a lot of people have had enough!

They should have acted far sooner and decisively.

Idbatterim

Kidchameleon wrote: »

It works for people who get off their ass and work hard

where? people that lived in Dublin moving, now commuting two or three hours each day, living somewhere ****. While we house people that never work in prime locations?

blanch152

Idbatterim wrote: »

things may be improving slowly, but this is the issue, the change has been so slow and glacial and it takes so long for people to notice, that a lot of people have had enough!

They should have acted far sooner and decisively.

If you build too quickly, prices shoot up even further because of the shortage of electricians, plumbers etc. Then houses become unaffordable and building shuts down by over-compensating.

The problem with housing markets is that if you change them too rapidly, they overshoot.

mikep

It seems to me that noone takes account of the fact that there are tens of thousands of people now earning 150K+++, if the average salary in Google is 150k it is safe to assume that facebook, microsoft etc etc are paying the same...this makes a huge contingetn of high earners who can pay high rent thus pushing up the prices...

It's obvious that not enough is being built but when you see every development facing objections you can see that it is not an attractive business to be in unless you are building big developments..

Thelonious Monk

I don't get this social housing thing. Are we looking for a state that provides an almost house to everyone who decides to have kids and not work, or is on low wages? Are they then considered homeless if they don't have a long term fixed address? What if they have loads of kids and they demand the same? How does this work in other rich countries?
Also what's stopping the Gov from building block after block of flats for people who would struggle to get on the property market? They'd have to CPO a lot of land, but so be it. If they can invest 5 billion in broadband why can't they do this?

Idbatterim

blanch152 wrote: »

If you build too quickly, prices shoot up even further because of the shortage of electricians, plumbers etc. Then houses become unaffordable and building shuts down by over-compensating.

The problem with housing markets is that if you change them too rapidly, they overshoot.

true and getting them back from australia, nz , canada isnt easy. Rip off childcare, outrageous marginal rate of tax. Rip off insurance for returning emigrants. The fact its a total banana republic, doesnt help either!

KevRossi

mikep wrote: »

It seems to me that noone takes account of the fact that there are tens of thousands of people now earning 150K+++, if the average salary in Google is 150k it is safe to assume that facebook, microsoft etc etc are paying the same...this makes a huge contingetn of high earners who can pay high rent thus pushing up the prices...

It's obvious that not enough is being built but when you see every development facing objections you can see that it is not an attractive business to be in unless you are building big developments..

There are loads of people working in Google on €25-30K, good sales people there are on €45-55K. Facebook etc are similar. The average salary is not the mean salary and most people working for FB, Google, Twitter etc are contractors, actually working for other companies in the offices of the tech companies.

There is a huge amount of people here from abroad working in those companies, who are paying €800-1000 in house shares and €1000+ in apartment shares, most of whom have arrived in the past 5 years. These people are increasing demand and increasing prices, most of them earn well under €50K a year.

is_that_so

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't get this social housing thing. Are we looking for a state that provides an almost house to everyone who decides to have kids and not work, or is on low wages? Are they then considered homeless if they don't have a long term fixed address? What if they have loads of kids and they demand the same? How does this work in other rich countries?
Also what's stopping the Gov from building block after block of flats for people who would struggle to get on the property market? They'd have to CPO a lot of land, but so be it. If they can invest 5 billion in broadband why can't they do this?

Paddy McKillen and his merry band for one. Councils regs is another, i.e. underground car parking for blocks. Last but not least social housing is a local government competency not a national one.

GooglePlus

Will a different housing Minister make a difference or change anything and what has he not done that another Minister can potentially do?

A genuine question, as I don't know the answer.

Is he really at the wheel at all?

Idbatterim

GooglePlus wrote: »

Will a different housing Minister make a difference or change anything and what has he not done that another Minister can potentially do?

A genuine question, as I don't know the answer.

Is he really at the wheel at all?

noboby knows for sure, but no I highly doubt it... What do you want him or her to do, so many people in power and in society, dont want reasonably affordable housing etc...

every decision maker here is a home owner, the dont need to be a landlord. You dont think these decision makers want their home or asset to rise in value?

seamus

Idbatterim wrote: »

things may be improving slowly, but this is the issue, the change has been so slow and glacial and it takes so long for people to notice, that a lot of people have had enough!

They should have acted far sooner and decisively.

Such is the nature of building homes. Unless you're willing to build actual shanty towns, then it's a matter of fact that significant increases in the housing stock will take years. Ultimately this still all falls back to the financial crash. Had the construction industry not contracted so severely, then it wouldn't have taken so long to get building back on track.

The property market is very much like steering a container ship through a shipping lane. Getting it up to speed takes a long long time and you have to maintain a slow and steady speed because you can't just stop suddenly if something appears in your way.

I would judge the government most harshly on their most recent performance in this area rather than their approach in 2016. Allowing the market to ramp itself up and trying to stay out of it, was the correct approach. But the immigration and housing need has increased so rapidly that they should have started providing capital to local authorities in 2018 to start their own building projects.

is_that_so

GooglePlus wrote: »

Will a different housing Minister make a difference or change anything and what has he not done that another Minister can potentially do?

A genuine question, as I don't know the answer.

Is he really at the wheel at all?

At this stage of the Dail, no but the SDs would see it as a win, if it passed. As for what's being done it's hard to measure but there are plans. Until they get stats from previous quarters/years they can't show anything. That and the length of time a build takes makes the topic of inaction/incompetence one that can be rolled out weekly without fear of contradiction.

is_that_so

seamus wrote: »

Such is the nature of building homes. Unless you're willing to build actual shanty towns, then it's a matter of fact that significant increases in the housing stock will take years. Ultimately this still all falls back to the financial crash. Had the construction industry not contracted so severely, then it wouldn't have taken so long to get building back on track.

The property market is very much like steering a container ship through a shipping lane. Getting it up to speed takes a long long time and you have to maintain a slow and steady speed because you can't just stop suddenly if something appears in your way.

I would judge the government most harshly on their most recent performance in this area rather than their approach in 2016. Allowing the market to ramp itself up and trying to stay out of it, was the correct approach. But the immigration and housing need has increased so rapidly that they should have started providing capital to local authorities in 2018 to start their own building projects.

LAs are a part of this problem, a big one IMO as they don't have the skills to do any of this any more nor do they have the skills to get other people to do it for them. Their performances have been just as poor.

Water John

Most services in Ireland have both public and private elements. The Govn't and LA' need to be a significant player in the housing market.
By creating housing stock and renting, they can increase overall housing stock and decrease the demand. The rents they set at a reasonable rate will also feed into the private rented market and calm it.
Main problem has been this active intervention is against FG's ideology. Eoghan Murphy only reflects that.

touts

Murphy is utterly devoid of any talent, experience or ability for public office. His only qualification for the job is being one of Leo's brat-pack. He is typical of the new generation of FG TDs and candidates. Young. Elitist. Rich. No experience outside student politics and then party work. The likes of himself, Harris, Baily, O'Connell etc are totally out of their depth.

The housing crisis needs a leader who can look at the challenge and come up with new innovative solutions. It requires a combination of experience and intelligence. Murphy has neither the track record or mental ability to manage that job and should go.

Idbatterim

Water John wrote: »

Most services in Ireland have both public and private elements. The Govn't and LA' need to be a significant player in the housing market.
By creating housing stock and renting, they can increase overall housing stock and decrease the demand. The rents they set at a reasonable rate will also feed into the private rented market and calm it.
Main problem has been this active intervention is against FG's ideology. Eoghan Murphy only reflects that.

yes, this is FACT! This is a large part of the problem... look, FG might be ok if you are a homeowner etc, but if you are being robbed blind in dublin on rent etc, you are going to have a very , very different perspective!

the problem here, is local and national government are just appalling bad at everything they do! actually thats not true, revenue run a very tight ship :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

touts wrote: »

Murphy is utterly devoid of any talent, experience or ability for public office. His only qualification for the job is being one of Leo's brat-pack. He is typical of the new generation of FG TDs and candidates. Young. Elitist. Rich. No experience outside student politics and then party work. The likes of himself, Harris, Baily, O'Connell etc are totally out of their depth.

The housing crisis needs a leader who can look at the challenge and come up with new innovative solutions. It requires a combination of experience and intelligence. Murphy has neither the track record or mental ability to manage that job and should go.

rich? by the irish definition? so just not a peasant basically!

is_that_so

touts wrote: »

Murphy is utterly devoid of any talent, experience or ability for public office. His only qualification for the job is being one of Leo's brat-pack. He is typical of the new generation of FG TDs and candidates. Young. Elitist. Rich. No experience outside student politics and then party work. The likes of himself, Harris, Baily, O'Connell etc are totally out of their depth.

The housing crisis needs a leader who can look at the challenge and come up with new innovative solutions. It requires a combination of experience and intelligence. Murphy has neither the track record or mental ability to manage that job and should go.

The "housing crisis" needs things to be built. No more reports, studies, fact finding, innovations or reviews, just build.

Idbatterim

touts wrote: »

Murphy is utterly devoid of any talent, experience or ability for public office. His only qualification for the job is being one of Leo's brat-pack. He is typical of the new generation of FG TDs and candidates. Young. Elitist. Rich. No experience outside student politics and then party work. The likes of himself, Harris, Baily, O'Connell etc are totally out of their depth.

The housing crisis needs a leader who can look at the challenge and come up with new innovative solutions. It requires a combination of experience and intelligence. Murphy has neither the track record or mental ability to manage that job and should go.

LOL! youre not wrong about all of it, but someone else will come along and tear down all the invisible barriers, with their magic wand will they? why is the sole focus on murphy, there are enough td's in the dail, where is the collective vision etc? we have vardkar the genius, can he not spare five minutes to just tell murphy what to do and hey presto, problem solved?

Jinglejangle69

Why are we constantly told that FG are keeping prices high to benefit the banks and builders if no one can afford to build or buy the bloody houses!!??

Just shows the nonsense theories the opposition and the left come out with.

Jinglejangle69

is_that_so wrote: »

The "housing crisis" needs things to be built. No more reports, studies, fact finding, innovations or reviews, just build.

They are building.

The most houses and social houses this year than the last 10 years.

There is no magic quick fix and all the parties know this.

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why are we constantly told that FG are keeping prices high to benefit the banks and builders if no one can afford to build or buy the bloody houses!!??

Just shows the nonsense theories the opposition and the left come out with.

but people can afford the, probably just not much more. How many new build dublin units are sitting unoccupied? non I would wager...

Idbatterim

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They are building.

The most houses and social houses this year than the last 10 years.

There is no magic quick fix and all the parties know this.

funny how all the hypocrite parties are keen to block as much development as possible in their own areas though :rolleyes:

Kermit.de.frog

Peter McVerry wrote a letter to the Irish Times today saying it is ok to be a thief if you are homeless (or poor presumably).

Not the first time he has made this point.

What we have at the moment is a homeless industry that needs to be challenged now.