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Eoin Murphy no confidence vote
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Matt Barrett wrote: »True, if that was the problem. How do we have high employment and droves of lazy folk on the scratcher? I'm no math whizz but that's don't add up nor nuthin'.
Eh, the population is increasing, Matt, didn't you notice? It was all in the Census.
At the same time, the amount of land inside the M50 is static.
It is a pretty simple maths explanation, now, how much do you want to pay for these magic beans?
Eric's point is absolutely correct.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »Dara 'Air Miles' Murphy is his Dail nickname by all accounts. Him and Enda raise giggles when they turn up. Dara getting the new number in Europe raised it to public attention and after years of Leo doing what Leo does best, nothing, he's now forced to play the leader of the country on this. He hates that.
Brian Crowley MEP (also from Cork) was at the same stunt for well over a decade and barely a peep from the media about it!
What is it about Corkonians and their sense of entitlement?0 -
Eh, the population is increasing, Matt, didn't you notice? It was all in the Census.
At the same time, the amount of land inside the M50 is static.
It is a pretty simple maths explanation, now, how much do you want to pay for these magic beans?
Eric's point is absolutely correct.
there are still farms inside the M50 for god sake! dublin has a huge amount of land to build on, you'd swear we were hong kong :rolleyes:0 -
Eh, the population is increasing, Matt, didn't you notice? It was all in the Census.
At the same time, the amount of land inside the M50 is static.
It is a pretty simple maths explanation, now, how much do you want to pay for these magic beans?
Eric's point is absolutely correct.
It has already been well established on this very thread that Matt's ability with figures isn't the best! Once he runs out of finger and toes to count on, he's immediately out of his comfort zone.0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »look at this farce! FARCE!!! no surprise who keeps this banana republic afloat! to think that FG are going to risk playing second fiddle to FF, partially because they wouldnt reward workers like they said they would, but shower margaret ca$h with well... cash! They receive ZERO welfare vote, so have absolutely nothing to lose, by addressing the welfare state, but they have everything to lose now from taxpaying voters who are deserting them! absolutely spineless inept, rats!
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/what-is-the-truth-about-paying-tax-in-ireland-1.4101097?fbclid=IwAR2RLyhnHW2oxnrukRN1mIpv6dV8wIG8bsYypfMqmfscls36oQXnHhRmUNQ
Where are these taxpaying voters going?
Sinn Fein promise to tax them even more, as do the rest of the left.
FF pretend it has nothing to do with them.0 -
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Idbatterim wrote: »but they have everything to lose now from taxpaying voters who are deserting them!
Where are the 'taxpaying voters' going to go though? Do they honestly believe they will get a better deal from FF or the left parties?0 -
Where are these taxpaying voters going?Loafing Oaf wrote: »Where are the 'taxpaying voters' going to go though?
Great minds post alike:pac:0 -
Loafing Oaf wrote: »Where are the 'taxpaying voters' going to go though? Do they honestly believe they will get a better deal from FF or the left parties?
I think it may well be a FF / FG government and those FG rats when they go to the elections, well, they found out what not representing those they put in there, where that got them! So they are going to have to go back more to that core vote in my opinion. Let FG off the hook so they can give non workers luxury apartments in dundrum etc, reward their backstabbing by being the largest party again? is that a serious proposal? from someone who lives in that areas and know working people living in garages they have converted?
you seriously think I should vote for these traitors again? They can start looking after the taxpayer, every other party wants to bleed them dry. So get in there, start doing it and next time round, they may have my vote. Goes without saying ending their rotten to the core housing stance, that bleeds people dry financially, **** commutes etc, needs addressing too...0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »I think it may well be a FF / FG government and those FG rats when they go to the elections, well, they found out what not representing those they put in there, where that got them! So they are going to have to go back more to that core vote in my opinion. Let FG off the hook so they can give non workers luxury apartments in dundrum etc, reward their backstabbing by being the largest party again? is that a serious proposal? from someone who lives in that areas and know working people living in garages they have converted?
you seriously think I should vote for these traitors again? They can start looking after the taxpayer, every other party wants to bleed them dry. So get in there, start doing it and next time round, they may have my vote. Goes without saying ending their rotten to the core housing stance, that bleeds people dry financially, **** commutes etc, needs addressing too...
This post is a clear example of how people in Ireland really don't understand coalitions as well as confidence and supply arrangements.
As long as Fine Gael don't have a majority, they don't have the ability to implement every single one of their election promises. They are curbed by their coalition partners (the Independents led by Shane Ross) and by their confidence and supply supporters Fianna Fail.
That is handy for the multitudes of FG-hating posters on here. They can shout and scream and accuse FG of breaking promises left, right and centre, while ignoring the realities of minority government, while at the same time, be secretly relieved that FG aren't going after their social welfare payment.
It is more difficult for people like yourself, who appears to have a right-wing agenda for smaller government, as FG find it hardest to deliver for that cohort from a minority government position. We haven't really had a party working for your agenda since the PDs, and they were much better at delivering niche proposals. The real problem for you is the lack of alternatives. FF have prevented tax cuts for the last four years so that they can promise them in the general election; if you get suckered again by them, that's your loss. Nearly every other party is proposing to increase income tax on the above average earners.0 -
This post is a clear example of how people in Ireland really don't understand coalitions as well as confidence and supply arrangements.
...
More FG brand arrogance. Not liking something doesn't mean it's misunderstood.It has already been well established on this very thread that Matt's ability with figures isn't the best! Once he runs out of finger and toes to count on, he's immediately out of his comfort zone.
Both yourself and Blanch have no credibility. It's all little digs and no substance. The Leo Varadkar book of discussion.
Here's some math for you:Figures released yesterday show that there are currently 10,514 people in emergency accommodation, of which 3,800 are children.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1204/1096897-housing-murphy-vote/A new record of 10,264 homeless people is triggering calls for the upcoming local elections to be treated by voters as a referendum on the Government’s “failed” housing policies.
Stinging attacks on the Fine Gael-led Government saw it accused of wrecking the lives of almost 4,000 children who are among those living in emergency accommodation..
He added: “In July 2016, under this Government’s watch 6,500 people were homeless. That figure has increased to over 10,000.”
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/failed-housing-policies-slammed-as-record-numbers-on-the-streets-914041.html
2018:The strongest indication that current policy has failed is the worsening housing crisis that has extended across Irish society. This includes low income families and individuals made homeless; "Generation Rent", where most young people growing up in Ireland will never be able to afford to rent or buy their own home; adult children forced to live at home with parents or couch surfing and students sleeping in their cars and commuting long distances.
The real scale of the crisis is underestimated by policy makers. The level of housing need and distress is over three times the current waiting lists. If you include those homeless, on housing lists, in receipt of Rental Accommodation Scheme (RAS) and Housing Assistance Payment (HAP), home owners in long term arrears and renters with unaffordable housing costs and in buy-to-lets in arrears, it is a total of 270,000 households (likely to be over half a million people). When policies continue to deny and underestimate the real scale of need they are clearly going to be ineffective.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2018/1005/1001663-housing-crisis-government-policy/That plan had the worthy ambition of eliminating homelessness and increasing the supply of housing, particularly social housing, by 2021. Official figures show how far it has fallen short. In July 2016, some 6,525 people were homeless. The figure now is 9,846. The average price of purchasing a home two years ago was €215,000 while in Dublin it was €314,311. The current comparable figures are €254,000 and €374,885. In 2016 the average rent was €1,000 a month and there were fewer than 3,100 properties available to let nationwide. The most recent figures show the average rent is €1,261 and there are 3,086 rental properties on the market.
These statistics illustrate the failure to come up with a workable strategy. More to the point they reveal an apparent lack of urgency on the part of the Government, its officials and various State agencies responsible for dealing with the crisis.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/irish-times-view-on-the-housing-crisis-the-government-s-greatest-failure-1.3570285
2019:The main political response was Rebuilding Ireland, unveiled in 2016. It is a €6 billion plan with the aim of increasing home builds to 25,000 per annum by 2020, providing 50,000 new social housing units by 2021, and accommodating 87,000 families and individuals in the private rented sector through Housing Assistance Payment (HAP) or the Rental Accommodation Scheme.
There are five “pillars” in the plan. They are: homelessness; social housing; building more homes; the rental sector; and vacant housing. But within each there are dozens of potential “solutions”.
The results have been mixed. The Government is close to meeting its targets on social housing and new builds. However, on vacant homes, the rental market and – particularly – homelessness, the outcomes have been hugely disappointing. As of December almost 10,000 people were living in emergency accommodation, including 3,500 children. Back in 2016 the government promised no child would be living in emergency conditions by July 2017.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/housing-crisis-has-the-government-delivered-on-rebuilding-ireland-1.3784446
But sure maybe an armpit fart will distract, go on.0 -
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It is an absolute travesty that confidence motions in specific ministers are seen as an all or nothing vote of confidence on the government itself. The Oireachtas should have the right to demand the replacement of individual ministers by expressing a lack of confidence in those specific ministers, without it automatically being a question of "do we want a general election or the status quo".
The Oireachtas is supposed to hold the cabinet to account. Being unable to lose confidence in an individual minister without bringing down the entire government severely hamstrings the Oireachtas from performing this function.0 -
Idbatterim wrote: »
you seriously think I should vote for these traitors again? They can start looking after the taxpayer, every other party wants to bleed them dry. So get in there, start doing it and next time round, they may have my vote.
The cynical calculation they are making is that most people in you position will continue voting for FG on the 'least worst of a bad lot' principle. As blanch points out, the fundamental problem for your cohort is a lack of alternatives.0 -
Looking at Matts quotes above we can see that there has been progress on the social housing and new builds however rentals vacant and homelessness are poor.
Listening to the debate on radio etc over the last few days you would be under the impression that everything has failed which is patently false.
Also this morning it was reported that rough sleeping is at it's lowest in years due to the fact that there are 800(!!) hostel beds available.
If you look at the vacant houses one can assume that many are from elderly residents of nursing homes leaving the property vacant.
In Dublin there are around 4000 nursing home spaces so it doesn't take a lot to see that if even 1/4 of these could be put into the rental market that would make a big difference.
However due to the current climate I'd say many are unwilling due to the ever increasing demonisation of the "landlord class", repeated by an SF politician on the radio this morning..
While not applicable to Dublin our family is one who have decided not to rent out our parents vacant home...0 -
im beginning to see, i think, where the split is on this type of thread.
anyone who thinks that:
govt is difficult
minority govt is more difficult
that no one policy is going to be popular with everyone
and even if it were, there are people whose actual job it is in the dail, and in the media, and on boards, to find a problem with it
that people should probably hold some level of responsibility for their own lot in the world once theyve gotten out of school, even if unhappy with that lot
but nevertheless that people fortunate to be in a position to do so should also be happy to pay taxes and have that money spent by the arms of govt, in order for govt to meet it's fair obligations to society
those people are rabid FG defenders
everyone else is just an ordinary joe, no strong political affiliations (no sir!) who could quite handily run a government department without falling foul of political, legislative or resource realities.
the more exclamation marks one uses, the more capable of the challenges of high office one is presumed to be.
is that the basics?0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »More FG brand arrogance. Not liking something doesn't mean it's misunderstood.
Both yourself and Blanch have no credibility. It's all little digs and no substance. The Leo Varadkar book of discussion.
Here's some math for you:
2018:
2019:
But sure maybe an armpit fart will distract, go on.
Matt,
I know you have admitted that you are no maths whizz, but you are taking lack of comprehension to absurd levels.
In your post - yes, your one - it is said "The results have been mixed. The Government is close to meeting its targets on social housing and new builds. However, on vacant homes, the rental market and – particularly – homelessness, the outcomes have been hugely disappointing."
In my detailed post, I said "Government performance on housing in the last year should therefore be rated somewhere between a C and a D. Not bad enough to be considered a failure, not good enough to be considered a significant success, but the picture is one of slow improvement."
There isn't a huge amount of difference, but so where your "FG brand arrogance" is coming from, I don't know, maybe you are looking in the mirror. It is quite astounding how you post such direct personal insults, while maintaining a pretence of debating on the issue.Let us look at some facts.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexseptember2019/
"In Dublin, residential property prices decreased by 1.3% in the year to September - house prices decreased by 1.5% and apartments decreased by 0.2%"
The Mid-East, the commuter belt, saw only small rises.
With wages rising by 5-6% according to the stats, then housing is more affordable this year than last.
A look at housing completions:
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/ndc/newdwellingcompletionsq32019/
"There were 5,667 new dwelling completions in Q3 2019. This compares with 4,645 completions for Q3 2018, an increase of 22.0%."
A 22% increase is not to be sniffed at, still not enough, but heading in the right direction, just like affordability.
Interestingly, these statistics do not include student accommodation. "In Q3 2019, 1,538 bed spaces were completed in the student accommodation sector".
That is a significant number of people being taken out of the normal rental market.
The story on rents is not as good, they are still going up, despite the rent controls.
https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/research/ar/
So, the facts tell us that the price of property in Dublin is coming down, affordability is easier, the number of properties being built has significantly increased, but that rents are still at high levels. One of two things may be at play, either there is significant population increase/migration preventing rents falling with the increased supply, or rental changes are lagging behind the increase in supply. That should become clearer over the next year.
Government performance on housing in the last year should therefore be rated somewhere between a C and a D. Not bad enough to be considered a failure, not good enough to be considered a significant success, but the picture is one of slow improvement.
What is more, they are motivated by the fact that you can't debate and discuss the real issues.
Less than an hour ago, at 15:06, I explained to you why your ideas on housing in Dublin City don't add up, i.e. finite land and growing population, yet, like always, you just ran away from the debate and came back with personal digs.
The bottom line is that things are improving in this country. First it was saving the national finances, second it was getting the economy growing, thirdly it was creating jobs, fourthly it was getting construction of housing going, and finally, it will be addressing the health and housing issues more comprehensively. The real big issue is that the biggest problem of all - climate change - is being ignored by all but one party. However, if you are debating or discussing any of the other issues and policies - FG's record is actually quite good.
On the other hand, if you are only interested in personalities - Varadkar, Murphy(s), Harris, Kenny, Shatter, Denis O'Brien, Noonan, Bailey - rather than policies, and you splurt with rage every time one of their names is mentioned, then you really are pretty shallow. You actually don't care about any of the issues, if you did, you would acknowledge that the link you provided shows that things are improving, instead all you want for some strange reason is to have a go as some FG politician or other, (the ones on that list seem to occupy all your thinking time) rather than the policy. When that fails, or the lack of substance is pointed out, you resort to having a go at the poster who calls you out on it.0 -
there is one such party, renua! but they blew their chance at a few seats over an issue that actually wasnt worth fighting over and was always going to pass! just so bloody typical. I admire them for taking a stand, but the likes of varadkar etc, just looked at which way the puiblic wind was blowing, his usual stance on every issue...
Getting those independent alliance gob****es out would be a start. Just form a FF / FG coalition... or if a few seats are needed to form a government, the greens probably the best of a bad lot...0 -
Looking at Matts quotes above we can see that there has been progress on the social housing and new builds however rentals vacant and homelessness are poor.
Listening to the debate on radio etc over the last few days you would be under the impression that everything has failed which is patently false.
Also this morning it was reported that rough sleeping is at it's lowest in years due to the fact that there are 800(!!) hostel beds available.
If you look at the vacant houses one can assume that many are from elderly residents of nursing homes leaving the property vacant.
In Dublin there are around 4000 nursing home spaces so it doesn't take a lot to see that if even 1/4 of these could be put into the rental market that would make a big difference.
However due to the current climate I'd say many are unwilling due to the ever increasing demonisation of the "landlord class", repeated by an SF politician on the radio this morning..
While not applicable to Dublin our family is one who have decided not to rent out our parents vacant home...
Of course there has been progress.
And every year it is better.
But people want 100,000 social houses built overnight for anyone who just wants one?
Impossible and every party knows this.
It’s pure populism and politics with stunts like last night and people are falling for it.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »im beginning to see, i think, where the split is on this type of thread.
anyone who thinks that:
govt is difficult
minority govt is more difficult
that no one policy is going to be popular with everyone
and even if it were, there are people whose actual job it is in the dail, and in the media, and on boards, to find a problem with it
that people should probably hold some level of responsibility for their own lot in the world once theyve gotten out of school, even if unhappy with that lot
but nevertheless that people fortunate to be in a position to do so should also be happy to pay taxes and have that money spent by the arms of govt, in order for govt to meet it's fair obligations to society
those people are rabid FG defenders
everyone else is just an ordinary joe, no strong political affiliations (no sir!) who could quite handily run a government department without falling foul of political, legislative or resource realities.
the more exclamation marks one uses, the more capable of the challenges of high office one is presumed to be.
is that the basics?
Pretty much.0 -
Jinglejangle69 wrote: »Of course there has been progress.
And every year it is better.
But people want 100,000 social houses built overnight for anyone who just wants one?
Impossible and every party knows this.
It’s pure populism and politics with stunts like last night and people are falling for it.
More than that, Matt wants the 100,000 social houses built overnight in Dublins 1 and 2.
Of course people are falling for it, they are gullible.0 -
He's a handsome man...handsome politicans are few and far between in this country..so in that regard they should leave him be.0
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He's a handsome man...handsome politicans are few and far between in this country..so in that regard they should leave him be.
hes gorgeous.
i remember after an interdepartmental competition a few years back, the women on the panel were ****in droolin to get placed where they might get a run at him0 -
Looking at Matts quotes above we can see that there has been progress on the social housing and new builds however rentals vacant and homelessness are poor.
Listening to the debate on radio etc over the last few days you would be under the impression that everything has failed which is patently false.
Also this morning it was reported that rough sleeping is at it's lowest in years due to the fact that there are 800(!!) hostel beds available.
If you look at the vacant houses one can assume that many are from elderly residents of nursing homes leaving the property vacant.
In Dublin there are around 4000 nursing home spaces so it doesn't take a lot to see that if even 1/4 of these could be put into the rental market that would make a big difference.
However due to the current climate I'd say many are unwilling due to the ever increasing demonisation of the "landlord class", repeated by an SF politician on the radio this morning..
While not applicable to Dublin our family is one who have decided not to rent out our parents vacant home...
It should be noted FG brand 'social housing' can mean market bought or leased and 'new builds' are pointless if merely fodder for vulture funds.
Thus far the plan isn't working, but let's see where we are as more time progresses. We have yet to see the trends reverse. I suppose getting worse, but at less of a rate is a kind of win.0 -
You forgot that those that think that way also require that the houses you provide in the centre of the city are no more than two storeys high and have a back garden for a trampoline.
There are solutions though. We could demolish the flats on Whitefriar Street and replace them with 10-story apartment blocks, with bigger apartments etc., but the NIMBYs would be up in arms.
Lombard St, and the river facing houses in Dublin. 2 storey houses basically in the IFSC for people who seem to spend all day in their pyjamas. It beggars belief. That whole area and all of townsend st which is full of social housing should be demolished and replaced with high rise apartments for city workers.
How can I get one of these?
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3468774,-6.2486147,3a,75y,220.37h,88.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHocMPpdceCV1ynHrL5-H7g!2e0!7i13312!8i66560 -
Jinglejangle69 wrote: »Of course there has been progress.
And every year it is better.
But people want 100,000 social houses built overnight for anyone who just wants one?
Impossible and every party knows this.
It’s pure populism and politics with stunts like last night and people are falling for it.
Show one media report or quote from anyone at anytime supporting that.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »It should be noted FG brand 'social housing' can mean market bought or leased and 'new builds' are pointless if merely fodder for vulture funds.
social housing needs being met through private rental arrangements is going on since around 2007, and a lot earlier if you count rent supplement.0 -
More than that, Matt wants the 100,000 social houses built overnight in Dublins 1 and 2.
Of course people are falling for it, they are gullible.
Quote me Blanch. You are making false representation to divert and distract. You are trying to pull a con.
A very dishonest and false post.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »social housing needs being met through private rental arrangements is going on since around 2007, and a lot earlier if you count rent supplement.
So what? It's not working. I don't care who wakes up to that. How much greed is enough? We need a government for the tax payer not vulture funds.0 -
Thelonious Monk wrote: »Lombard St, and the river facing houses in Dublin. 2 storey houses basically in the IFSC for people who seem to spend all day in their pyjamas. It beggars belief. That whole area and all of townsend st which is full of social housing should be demolished and replaced with high rise apartments for city workers.
How can I get one of these?
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3468774,-6.2486147,3a,75y,220.37h,88.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHocMPpdceCV1ynHrL5-H7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It's not the tenants making a fortune off the tax payer. It's likely Noonan and chums.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »So what? It's not working. I don't care who wakes up to that. How much greed is enough? We need a government for the tax payer not vulture funds.
so you are incorrect to label it FG brand, thats all.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »so you are incorrect to label it FG brand, thats all.
The current terminology is FG's. Social housing use to mean built and owned by the tax payer, now it means a number of things. That's FG.0
![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
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