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Eoin Murphy no confidence vote

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    #452
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Do you even understand the responsibilities of a Minister ?


    Eoghan Murphy is the Minister with responsibility for housing. If there are scammers then it is his responsibility to ensure there are checks and balances to ensure there is no one scamming the system.
    But then perhaps you are just simply suggesting that all 10,000 plus are scammers.
    If you are, then you must really believe the Minister is unfit for office.

    It’s his responsibility to catch the scammers???

    I’d ask for a link but I know you dont have one.

    Actually go on throw it up there.


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    #453
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Don't waste your time, new account with nothing to add only deflection.

    Want to continue the debate or resort to insults?

    I’m here and ready.


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    #454
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Do you even understand the responsibilities of a Minister ?


    Eoghan Murphy is the Minister with responsibility for housing. If there are scammers then it is his responsibility to ensure there are checks and balances to ensure there is no one scamming the system.
    But then perhaps you are just simply suggesting that all 10,000 plus are scammers.
    If you are, then you must really believe the Minister is unfit for office.

    That's the bottom line here.

    If the system is being scammed = minister's fault.
    If the system isn't being run properly and the minister's remit is being failed = minister's fault.

    Anyone who voted for the parties of the power swap here voted for a fair and competent welfare system. Not being delivered? = government's fault.


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    #455
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Yes!!!!

    Margaret Cash is my evidence!!!!!


    You are not blaming Mags for the housing crisis and 5 mins later Margaret Cash is your evidence!!!!


    Quiet obvious to me at this stage you are trolling.

    So like others here I have no further interest in engaging with you.


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    #456
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That's the bottom line here.

    If the system is being scammed = minister's fault.
    If the system isn't being run properly and the minister's remit is being failed = minister's fault.

    Anyone who voted for the parties of the power swap here voted for a fair and competent welfare system. Not being delivered? = government's fault.

    Or...

    Is it too much to expect people to live by the rules.

    Do we blame ministers for rapists and murderers breaking the law and committing these crimes?

    Is everything always the governments fault?

    What ever happened to personal responsibility?

    Ah I dunno.


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    #457
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,450 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    charlie14 wrote: »
    You are not blaming Mags for the housing crisis and 5 mins later Margaret Cash is your evidence!!!!


    Quiet obvious to me at this stage you are trolling.

    So like others here I have no further interest in engaging with you.

    I’m not blaming Mags for the housing crisis.

    However I am using Mags as evidence people are scamming the system.

    Pity you have to go, I’m enjoying this debate.


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    #458
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,179 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Or...

    Is it too much to expect people to live by the rules.

    Do we blame ministers for rapists and murderers breaking the law and committing these crimes?

    We would if they allowed a situation were a rapist could rape with impunity.
    s everything always the governments fault?

    What ever happens to personal responsibility?

    Ah I dunno.

    The minister was not facing a test of his competency because there are people who milk the system, he was facing it because he hasn't run what was promised - a fair, equal and competent system.


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    #459
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Sheepdish1 wrote: »
    The rental pressure zones aren’t working and have made the market even worse for renters. Any new landlords that come onto the market put the prices even higher as they know they can’t increase the rents in future. A lot of landlords get around this loophole, it’s not properly monitored and tenants are so desperate they have to take what ever increases they are given.

    The cuckoo funds will do the same. They will price the rents high as they know they’ll have to stay within RPZ increase limits.

    Yes, absolutely, all it has done is increased prices.

    Do cuckoo funds pay the standard tax rate on rental income or do they avail of the generous corporate rates ? It would be interesting to find out this to see how much tax is being collected

    The rental pressure zones are bad alright made worse by the fact they left it far to easy for it to be abused by private small landlords. Decent podcast on the topic which shows how they are abusing it. The cuckoo funds stayed within the RPZ limits compared to the small frys who did not.

    https://www.irishlifecorporatebusiness.ie/whats-behind-drop-house-prices-irish-times-podcast

    The answer as is suggested in the link above is to increase the revenue to builders so we can increase the overall supply. Right now i believe developers are building with either funds from the cuckoo funds or with them in mind. The problem will not go away until we tackle the supply problem.

    I have no idea about the tax they pay, i am more interested in how they are looking to get rid of the small time landlord model and moving towards a big corporate landlord type model. To you point they are playing nice for now but when they are in the majority who knows.


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    #460
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    facetious

    renting a place with a fair market value of thousands for a few quid is a direct benefit worth the difference

    cmon man

    Market value isn’t fair, it’s decimatint ordinary peoples’ disposable income and lining the pockets of people who don’t actually contribute or produce anything beyond pen pushing. That’s the whole problem - market value is not in any way reasonable and should not be considered a legitimate barometer of how much it should cost for people to put a roof over their heads.


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    #461
    Sheepdish1
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Sheepdish1


    Calhoun wrote: »
    The rental pressure zones are bad alright made worse by the fact they left it far to easy for it to be abused by private small landlords. Decent podcast on the topic which shows how they are abusing it. The cuckoo funds stayed within the RPZ limits compared to the small frys who did not.

    https://www.irishlifecorporatebusiness.ie/whats-behind-drop-house-prices-irish-times-podcast

    The answer as is suggested in the link above is to increase the revenue to builders so we can increase the overall supply. Right now i believe developers are building with either funds from the cuckoo funds or with them in mind. The problem will not go away until we tackle the supply problem.

    I have no idea about the tax they pay, i am more interested in how they are looking to get rid of the small time landlord model and moving towards a big corporate landlord type model. To you point they are playing nice for now but when they are in the majority who knows.

    I think it is important to find out how much tax the larger cuckoo funds are paying. For example, if they are renting somewhere for €2000 a month and paying corporate tax rates as opposed to rental income rates it would be a significant difference


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    #462
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Market value isn’t fair, it’s decimatint ordinary peoples’ disposable income and lining the pockets of people who don’t actually contribute or produce anything beyond pen pushing. That’s the whole problem - market value is not in any way reasonable and should not be considered a legitimate barometer of how much it should cost for people to put a roof over their heads.

    we agree on the specific point but it merely reinforces my broader point about it being a significant benefit to those in receipt


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    #463
    Sweet.Science
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    A landlord has to charge double the mortgage to break even in their investement. Without them the crisis would be an awful lot worse

    It must stem from the famine why they are hated so much


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    #464
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    A landlord has to charge double the mortgage to break even in their investement. Without them the crisis would be an awful lot worse

    It must stem from the famine why they are hated so much



    do they?

    do they really?

    i mean, please tell me that this means "to break even in the year"

    because, of course, even if true (it seems, imo, highly dubious) it absolutely disregards the asset value of the property they will own at the end of the mortgage, which is a hugely facetious way to account the investment.


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    #465
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Sweet.Science wrote: »
    A landlord has to charge double the mortgage to break even in their investement. Without them the crisis would be an awful lot worse

    It must stem from the famine why they are hated so much

    That or from looking at the rental increases they are breaking the law to get around the pressure zone rules.

    They aren't a charity they are a business.


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    #466
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Calhoun wrote: »
    That or from looking at the rental increases they are breaking the law to get around the pressure zone rules.

    They aren't a charity they are a business.

    well, they arent a business, they are private investors. but i appreciate that you could make a case either way.

    if you dont budget for the costs of the maintenance of the investment, including legislative requirements, including servicing the debt, expect things to go badly for you.

    any business that treats income as "profit" before servicing its long-term debt repayments is destined for the skids, fast.


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    #467
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Deleted User wrote: »
    we agree on the specific point but it merely reinforces my broader point about it being a significant benefit to those in receipt

    Yes but that's a good thing, and we should be trying to extend that principle to housing in general rather than attacking it in the one sector in which it currently exists.


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